Full Suspension, Cargo & Step Thru Titanium Frame

Merle Nelson said:
A lot of things I own I use no where near the potential of the item. I often think of how much more a person who sat down and studied it till they knew all of its capabilities could get out of any given thing. Even so, even if I only use it to 50% capacity or less, but it makes that experience seamless and just sing... Then it is worth it for me
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I want two great ebikes to count on. (My wife's one ebike has been down for going on six weeks - and that with good company backing and a dealer doing all you could expect a dealer to do.) I'm thinking a titanium FS bike might be the second bike for me.

Are there pictures of a WW FS Titanium bike that we can see now?
 
Merle Nelson said:
I want two great ebikes to count on. (My wife's one ebike has been down for going on six weeks - and that with good company backing and a dealer doing all you could expect a dealer to do.) I'm thinking a titanium FS bike might be the second bike for me.

Are there pictures of a WW FS Titanium bike that we can see now?
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ABE514B0-732F-4F1E-BCE8-8404B9414AD8.jpeg
 
Cuz Vinny said:
Wonder what the price would be for the frame/2300w motor/52V 21ah battery would be? I could do my own build off of that.
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I'd try an e to [email protected]
Fast n' Furious said:
I found this: Frame and weight — Titanium, 65 pounds
"The Watt Wagons Ultimate Commuter Pro electric bike has five frame sizes and one color — silver — with a curb weight of nearly 65 pounds, which is incredibly light considering the massive motor, battery and suspension. The various frames can accommodate rider heights from 5’2” to 6’9”. Frame sizes in include small, medium, large, extra large and a custom size. Custom sizing costs $300."
Here: https://www.electrifiedreviews.com/...tric-bike-review-guinness-world-record-e-bike
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Replace the Moloko (709g) bars w/ 200g Carbon bars, or go with alloy imitations that weigh 400ish'g.
I'll be running carbon seat-rails (no Ti available for my saddle), not stainless. Maybe retire my KINEKT (614g) for a Ti or carbon seat-post.
That'll get me down about 3lbs using my selection of Ti fasteners/ seat-post clamp.
A Lauf fork, or similar, > 2.5 lbs.
I've seen other's claiming 58lbs for the Legacy. Probably minus rack (710Gms), fenders (900Gms) , heavy bars and seat-post = 7lbs
My Ltd weighs 58lbs - with Abus lock aboard.
These machines are near best possible weight outcome, against a 'point of diminishing returns' barrier. It's pretty tight.
W/ a Ti bolts and washers, on a Ti frame, sporting a Ti seat-post, it's corrosion proof - whereas stainless bolts, or any steel contact would corrode, tending to seize unless using copper goop on the threads.
Sharing: one of my 30g Ti seat- post clamps (w/ attaching points and Ti bolt w/ vicegrip proof 'conical head', suitable for various locking security inserts), and a 19.25G 'rainbowed' clamp in Ti.
Fn'F
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The prices are rising for Ti, "$3,360.00" !!! Shipping: US $1,169.78

1626580708971.png

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...exp_id=d20a0478-df8f-4ee5-ac5d-faf1929fb41b-8
 
reed scott said:
Whose bike is this?
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Fast n' Furious said:
I'd try an e to [email protected]

The prices are rising for Ti, "$3,360.00" !!! Shipping: US $1,169.78

View attachment 93568
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...exp_id=d20a0478-df8f-4ee5-ac5d-faf1929fb41b-8
Click to expand...
This frame (below), similar to the WW UC has an apparent frame splitter. I don't see that on the UC, and my understanding is the Gates belt does not have a link that comes apart, like the Split belt types. 🤔
Seems those who know are 🙊.
Having Gates is like having Apple products. 100% proprietary parts. Gates won't even let aftermarket producers make pulleys - while they are failing to cover offsets in their line-up that many require. Also, trusted sources say the Gates is super touchy with alignment - as Optimax found out - and speaking of which, I've been reading Gates' manual (here): https://www.gatescarbondrive.com/~/...ctoryresources/gatesshimanomanualen.pdf?la=en
I note at page 12: "Never try to pry the belt on, or “roll” it on by rotating the cranks. This may cause inner structural damage which will result in the belt no longer being useful".
The manual indicates, for instance, If the belt twisted into the groove between the drive cog when it came off (or suffered any one of many twist/ bend/ folding mistreatments), the carbon fibers are ruined. It make clear that by using it you're risking catastrophic failure and your belt should be replaced.
All previously ingrained experience putting a chain back on is the 100% wrong way to fix a unidirectional carbon fiber belt coming off.
That belt requires very precision alignment. It failed because it was 'not precision enough'. Now, having tampered with the tensioning, it certainly would require alignment and there is no way you could simply set where it was - and expect different results.
In fact, it's a major complaint using a Gates drive (the Kindernay was the only hub of numerous tested that actually could be properly aligned to Gates' specs), it's so precise. The belt must stay flat. Any twisting force will stress one side's fibers and not the other's.
Perhaps you can do it by eye - Whenever the rear wheel is removed or if the belt has come off.
Here's Gates' tool for aligning the drivetrain: https://www.bike-eu.com/products-in...gates-carbon-drive-tech-video-series-10138710
That site has an entire course on Gates drives, 12 videos. I must find time to watch them all.
This is another Gates laser alignment tool at 1/6th the price: https://www.vividracing.com/-p-153721768.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwos- HBhB3EiwAe4xM93lyGdPapyF_1u70c2Gwq37qLBnjFqcAwPkmjRyedP6d4a2etr8P9BoCHUwQAvD_BwE and made to do the same thing.
Just throwing it out there. Knowledge is power. There are no secrets.
WattWagons has done an amazing job, at huge expense and trouble to produce 'what I would build if I could'.
The Kindernay is the only drive that really works for this application. The question remains, will it hold up w/ 2300watts and 200nm?
My take is an e-bike like this does not need 14 gears, but nothing else will have the large drive ratio allowing higher top ends. - or the perfect alignment. If I should lunch the gearbox - shifting while applying power at the same time - it will be an expensive lesson. We shall see.

1626620335397.png

Fn'F
 
pushkar said:
We have done 4 things

1. True full suspension, in titanium.
2. You can put up to 52V, 21Ah battery on board, no problem.
3. We have belt drive on it.
4. ASTM level 3 certified.
The bike can be made in Trail or Commuting geometry. This picture below is with commuting geometry, and has mounts for Rear rack and fenders!
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Wow now this is interesting. Would love to see what trail geometry looks like, does trail still have rack and fender mounts?

Really close to pulling trigger on Hydra, but this has bigger battery closer to the size I want (1KWh) and the titanium actually looks really cool and different. Would also like to know the weight to compare to hydra.

Now pushkar just needs to figure out a suspended rear rack like the R&M Superdelite and its game over.
 
jharrell said:
Now pushkar just needs to figure out a suspended rear rack like the R&M Superdelite and its game over.
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R&M has a patent on theirs which seems insane, but creates a road block, as there aren't many ways to do it on a step over bike....
 
Merle Nelson said:
A lot of great info in that post. Thank you FnF.
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Most welcome. I know I'm so grateful for how much I have learned.
Sometimes, my ignorance even becomes an asset when I don't have to unlearn.
Here's a few more things. I can adapt to letting off throttle when shifting - like a machine with a clutch. But if applying just throttle in 6th gear is too much for the Kindernay, I need to find another way.
This from Kindernay at https://kindernay.com/support/faq/
"Upshift: It is possible to upshift (to a higher gear) under close to full pedal power.
Downshifts: It is possible to downshift (to a lower gear) under load, but the rider must slightly reduce the load on the pedals during the shift. Note that the added torque of eBike motors, shifting under load on such bikes is more difficult than with traditional bikes."
I imagine the "eBike motors" they have in mind are 36v 250w 40nm eBikes, not 52v 2300w 200nm .
My bigger problem is a 'thumb' shifter. Total deal breaker. Damage to my thumb tendon. Junk anyhow. One gave me an injury to my other thumb before I dumped it.
Look folks: YOU CAN'T GRIP ANYTHING WITH YOUR THUMB STUCK OUT. It's opposite our human hand physiology.
In Shotokan Karate they show you how to make a perfect fist - with maximum grip. The hand is rolled closed and the thumb is locked, pulled rearward and pointing down. When in this the wrist can't be bent (try it). If you are doing it correctly, it's a a straight line from elbow to the fist.
Unlock the thumb, everything is easily flexed and bent - wrist, grip, knuckles.
So when Kindernay says: "Currently the HYSEQ 2SIE is the only shifter available. For more information about new products and release dates, please follow our social media channels or register to our newsletter", they just lost me as a customer.
I'm seeing a lot of stuff posted on this forum in favor the Rohloff. I've been grousing about weight, but may have to give in and add the extra pound.
Sunday and hot out, so a few things I'm planning that other Titanium Builders may find in good taste.
Racks; Bars; Dropouts; Seat-post; Head-clamp (pant, pant) and front fork.
I really like this Axiom knock-off rack in Ti.
1626649256684.png

While I don't know much, I can see using a Ti forks flex to dump the high maintenance ... and 3 - 4lbs.
Ti spokes are also a mentionable option - that will reduce spoke weight 45% from the steel!
Sticking with the theme, there's the Ti Saddle - for ya'll hard arses.
W/ welded Ti rails ....
1626650251438.png

1626650312037.png

A must have for show, but WHAT ??? No indentation for 'sit-bones' ???
I'm sure they'll be happy to cut a center slot for, uh 'various gender apparatus'.
Next is a message: "KINEKT better get w/ the program". I love (heavy as a ferrous rock) mine, but it's dated.
Steel springs, yes, but the body of the device, and downtube must be made of Ti. Carbon fiber has no place in this area. It should flex, CF disintegrates when it flexes, relying on geometric rigidity attained by directional fibers - that crumble when bent. lol
Titanium goes 'boing' and flexes. This Ti seat-post is (Drumroll) 35g.
I can't believe KINEKT's "Carbon Downtube 🤮 option? The company and the owner are amazing and super competent. Fabulous engineering. Time to get out of the "IRON (Steel) AGE" and go non-magnetic.

1626650834406.png

I guess my point is: Substantial weight reduction (too long for my 'bars' research stuff) is there.
12lbs saving (65lb bike = 53lbs. Battery off to transport = 41lbs).
Under 140lbs, I'm thinking: I can lift the front when I go up obstacles - my tail will be off the seat anyhow. Rear is Hardtail - no change..
In real world terms, Ti has awesome 'rebound', after bending - about 40% more than steel.
A Fork that uses that strength (Along these lines: https://www.laufcycling.com/product/lauf-tr-boost?currency=usd ) need not have 19th century air-powered gadgets. lol. No shock maintenance.
Probably stick with my Selle X2 w/ carbon arms and KINEKT, for longer cruises.
Fn'F
Cooling off. Time to go for a ride.
 
Last edited:
jharrell said:
Yes insane, need to look at it to see the specifics, but it's a rear rack attached to frame, Juiced has one on the scorpion does it infringe?

https://www.juicedbikes.com/products/hyperscorpion
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I'm sure if you asked, these people will be happy to make you a real rack, out of Ti for a Ti FS bike that will clamp on to the frame, rather than the un-sprung weighted swing arm. One attachment at the seat-post, the other two at the seat-tube.
They also make an FS Ti frame - and it may well be the same geometry. I've include photos elsewhere.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...offerlist.normal_offer.d_image.1d175eaeCBAIet
1626703875621.png


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