E-bikes under fire as fatalities climb in NYC

[tomdutchie]

Or maybe not...

Delivery man stabbed on bike

The NYPD wants to find the man who stabbed a delivery man on his bicycle in Cypress Hills, Brooklyn.

www.fox5ny.com

Those images are really disturbing: there are some crazy people living on this planet..
if the delivery guy would have a faster (e)bike, he might be in the different category

 

[antboy]

(Not really) funny how many of these anti-ebike headlines are actually about electric scooters.

 

[RunForTheHills]

"Jing Fong was struck by an e-bike in the bike lane", and the cyclist wasn't charged. You have to wonder if the cyclist was actually doing something wrong. If Jing Fong was struck by a car while standing in the middle of the road, would people question the safety of having cars on the road?

 

[MechaNut]

Just reading the article: so the NY law saying 25mph is the maximum speed for an e-bike?
From a European point of view that's crazy fast, that's moped speed and here - in cities - they are directed to the car lane.
An e-bike is a bike with electric help to get you toward normal bike speed (max. in E.U. 15-16mph/25kmh).
One of the popular bikes (vanMoof) now getting into trouble it is possible going to 20mph, in "us settings" [software], and the fact the boost/throttle is also not permitted.
[goes against the definition of helping: it's taking over]. And they pushing the update to the bikes.
But what I am reading in the comments here is that people going faster than law permits? How? [they (re)build their own bikes, or it's not illegal to sell this kind of bikes?]
Problem with the speed of bikes, it's harder to enforce: no licence plate, and harder to follow. That's why enforcing should also be done at the moment of buying.
Maybe I'm getting old, don't understand the need for speed (on public roads) but I'm glad that there is not so much difference in speed on bike-infra here [different/unexpected speed->accident]

According to NYS e-bike law, Class 1 (PAS only) and Class 2 (PAS+Throttle) are capped at 20mph and Class 3 is 25 mph.
Analog bikes can easily exceed 20mph on flat ground if you have the fitness to use the large chainring. The fastest I've had my e-bikes is 32 mph, but that was 100% gravity assisted on a downhill. The motor had very little to do with that. I live in a hilly part of NYS so downhills are part of the deal around here (as are climbs).
Some e-bike makers have the motor assist speed limit set in the e-bike settings in a location where you can change it. Both of mine are set up that way. I've chosen to leave them at the factory default 20mph cap because that is more than enough for me and going faster severely impacts the range on a battery charge. Some e-bikes have their limiters set in hardware and require a hardware solution to up the maximum speed.

Under NYS motor vehicle law the operators of those speeding e-bikes will be most likely be treated just the same as if they were operating a car or motorcycle. NYS motor vehicle law only differentiates bicycles in terms of licensing and registration requirements, use of cycling infrastructure, access to limited use trails, and motor vehicle clearances (minimum distances between a bicycle and a motor vehicle). Otherwise bicycles are considered motor vehicles for purposes of road use. The reckless e-bike operators are probably going to be charged with some penalty up to and including vehicular manslaughter just as if they had been operating a car in an unsafe manor as defined by law.

 

[kmccune]

This has been an issue in Nyc forever. They banned them for a while then when CITIbike made the rental ebikes possible they change the law just for them and legalized ebikes and now LOTS people in Nyc WFH (work from home) , order online , click on delivery ASAP and Expect the ebiks to go slow, doesn't make sense... either a cold dinner from a slow E bike or a hot dinner from a fast E bike. Or no dinner delivered , pick it up.

Keep In mind that in NYC we're talking about big buildings so the order has to go to the building sec., could be a looooong elevator ride and going past the security desk is more time so they are always under pressure, pressure to make the trip fast.

The people who complain about fast restaurant ebikes should quit asking for take out and walk or jog to get their food...They r all mostly fat anyways( >60 %) , a little exercise will save them.
Lazy , rude , self entitled Ny'ers. Better yet, learn to cook NYC !

Those ebikes used for food delivery and the Revel moto scooters are mostly to blame, but WHY r the drivers going fast ?
The food is geting cold....well
we got the bottom of the issues.
If they ban them , the grubhub orders will be postponed unless Ny'ers will go and pick it up.


Does anyone know how they do this in Eu or Canada ? I mean , I know they also have food delivery with the ebikes but I'm saying do they also have lots of accidents ?


It will be a shame to illegalize the ebikes in Ny just because of the laziness of the take out crowd who wants it fast(we all know that we have an option in the delivery apps to choose our delivery and I'm sure most ppl.choose ASAP). The same crowd then when in the street is asking for civility and for the food ebikes to go slow...doesn't make sense.

Fyi, when i order , i always go and pick it up . Or just make a delicious red quinoa with farm raised sauteed goat that no rest . offers.

As far as the Revel scooters, I don't think that those are mentioned in the article or referred to but some of the riders may not have the experience to use those.

That Quinoa and goat sounds pretty good.

 

[Ebiker01]

time from order->doorstep doesn't it make more sense to look at prep. time of the food itself? Except for the big fast-food chains, the majority of time goes into making, according to the apps.

Timewise it would not make a (notable) difference if all traffic (>16mph) would be banned from the (overcrowded) cycle path, and would overall increase appreciation of (e)bikes as a safe way to get around in the city I think?

Maybe also have to look at rider side: those delivery people are not really well-paid, mostly paid by delivery instead of time: so the risk of fluctuating demand is put on them, where it may be better to put in on the company?

1) b/c Everybody is ordering around the same time 7.30pm to 9:30 PM, i guess that' s when most of the throttle speed circuit delivery races are taking place..,

2) >16mph it would block many regular acoustic riders , maybe >18mph but who's going to enforce it ? The cars r still going 35mph in a 25mph zones w/o the law people doing anything about it. Limit the car speeds first based on a car gps to 28mph !

3)yes, the companies (uber/doordash/grubhub) have billions in revenue, although none of them has found a way to make a profit

It's better to pick up the order in order to support the fav. restaurants because the delivery fee imposed upon them by this companies is 30% or maybe 15-20% and that would lead to helping the restaurant by picking up the order instead of waiting for it.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I think the article categorizes pedal-assist electric bicycles, electric scooters, and electric motorcycles as "e-bikes". We all know those things are not the same.

My $0.02 on speed limits: in urban areas, most bike lanes and grade-separated trails are usually too cluttered and busy an environment for speeds much past 15mph to be safe or sane. You will inevitably have pedestrians with a low level of situational awareness in them and they are too easily invaded by cars.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Apparently the actress Lisa Barnes passed away last night. RIP.

The report I read said she was hit by a scooter and they are still looking for the operator of the scooter.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Apparently the actress Lisa Barnes passed away last night. RIP.

The report I read said she was hit by a scooter and they are still looking for the operator of the scooter.

A scooter passed me last night on my daily ride on a rail trail and was easily going 50+mph

 

[reed scott]

The sensationalist rag UK Daily Mail at least used the term 'electric scooter' in their headline rather than ebike.

 

[Art Deco]

Is thatI think the article categorizes pedal-assist electric normbicycles, electric scooters, and electric motorcycles as "e-bikes". We all know those things are not the same.

My $0.02 on speed limits: in urban areas, most bike lanes and grade-separated trails are usually too cluttered and bualan environment for speeds much past 15mph to be safe or sane. You will inevitably have pedestrians with a low level of situational awareness in them and they are too easily invaded by cars.

I don't ride in city traffic, but my impression of traffic in London, Paris, and Rome is that about 15mph is about all you can do in a car. The bike commuters might be faster.

 

[Asher]

There will be people who, any time confronted with one problem, try to shut down protective measures by saying 'what about X Y and Z!?' - it's a duplicitous tactic to prevent change without invoking any reason to do nothing. 'Why don't we stop coal miners from dying in mine collapses?' 'WHAT ABOUT STARVING AFRICAN CHILDREN?'

"Jing Fong was struck by an e-bike in the bike lane", and the cyclist wasn't charged. You have to wonder if the cyclist was actually doing something wrong. If Jing Fong was struck by a car while standing in the middle of the road, would people question the safety of having cars on the road?

This is a good point. This is why you need an investigation of every single incident, and even near-incidents, to come up with a solution. One problem in NYC is often the sidewalks are too small, and there is too much space for cars parked or in motion. See: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ny.../new-york-city-overcrowded-sidewalks.amp.html

So you get lots of people walking in bike lanes. People usually don't want to walk or stand in bike lanes unless they have a reason to.

As for delivery drivers, I am sympathetic to their conditions of low pay and harsh work, but it's also fundamentally an industry that survives on low pay, economic inequality and immense amounts of plastic pollution (on a per meal basis). New York City has extremely tight rules on opening a street food stand, but more stands could help reduce demand for delivery while also giving workers more opportunity and a safer work environment.

 

[J.R.]

This is how the ugly art of sausage making (laws and regulations) is done. These days it's even uglier, with media taking sides. Oh, that's nothing new, there's just more of it and more outlets are willing to bend the truth to obtain the outcome they prefer.

With so many users wanting higher power ebikes; sellers and users posting videos of illegal use on YouTube and social media, it all goes against us. There's one major US brand owner that actually posts videos of illegal ebikes being used on public infrastructure. It's like Henry Ford having an impromptu drag race on Wall Street. Now we see these accidents where people are dying. Lawmakers and regulators aren't going to get into the nuances of what is legal and where its legal to use these bikes.

There are dozens of threads here where a poster is protesting the 3 Class law. When lawmakers consider allowing ebikes on bike paths and trails, they have to consider all users (all voters) and the Class 1 option is their only option that most, if not all, consider as reasonable to mix in with all other users. A lot of us aren't content with that.

Even though we spend a lot of time, money and manpower to police our roadways, people still speed, get into accidents and people die everyday. We don't have the resources to police bikes. I don't know where all this will lead, but I fear the small gains we've made will disappear.

If I were going to invest a lot of money on an ebike today for the long haul, I'd choose a legal one for where I ride. I fear the ugly art of enforcement is just around that blind corner ahead.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I don't ride in city traffic, but my impression of traffic in London, Paris, and Rome is that about 15mph is about all you can do in a car. The bike commuters might be faster.

There are lots of youtube videos of bicycles in city centers in Europe. When I look at them it seems like nearly everyone is going a lot slower than 20kph.

 

[m@Robertson]

Where I do most of my riding, we have high speed limits, bike lanes and long distances. My awd hub bike is perfectly at home at full speed and, thanks to the fact I geared it such: My cruising speed capability of 32-34 mph on flat land is a non-issue, even to local law enforcement. These are in-town roads along my commute. The second one is a residential area and that speed limit is mph not km/h. And of course the cars regularly exceed the limit.

But a dense urban area is a whole other thing. I can understand Europeans' reluctance to accept the higher power levels and speeds we have here simply because, by and large, there is nowhere they can safely ride like we do.

New York is a lot like this with respect to the crowding. Throw in poor bicycle infrastructure, disdain and aggression from motorists, and a low level of expertise on the part of riders who are new to racing thru a minefield... its a perfect storm for what we're seeing.

If I had my druthers I'd be enforcing zero tolerance and guaranteed prosecution for motorists hitting ALL cyclists. Look at the death rates vs. motor vehicles in years past in that town. NYPD also made it quite clear they were capable of harrassing ebikers en masse at the behest of De Blasio... so why aren't they redirecting that energy to stopping and citing the riders/scooters speeding by? Well ... this whole mess lets Mr. Mayor say I told you so with respect to the public shouting down his ebike ban.

 

[J.R.]

Published June 14, 2021

Weeks after the city of Encinitas announced the rollout of a new electric bike-share program for this fall, a recent petition to ban E-bikes from Moonlight Beach has circulated around social media sites, sparking mixed reactions...

According to the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, at least 41 Americans were killed and about 133,000 injured between 2017 and 2019 in incidents tied to e-scooters, e-bikes and hoverboards. The toll of deaths and injuries from the devices has been rising, with e-scooters accounting for much of the increase...

E-Bike Boom Sparks Controversy Around North County

Electric bicycles have boomed in popularity during the pandemic but so as accidents involving them. While some believe they’re a great way to get around and outdoors, others are concerned that they pose a danger.

www.nbcsandiego.com

A fairly balanced article. Unfortunately we will all get lumped together like this. Grandmom taking her beloved dog and walking with her grandkids on the local path won't care about the nuances between ebike and escooter.

 

[Catalyzt]

I don't mean to be insensitive to pedestrians who are injured by bikes, but in a NYC, there has always been a *somewhat* reduced expectation for safety.

Not a total disregard for human life, not a post-apocalyptic Lord-Of-The-Flies hellscape, but a modestly increased chance of accidents of all kinds.

Yes, the whole point of racing ("road") bike messengers when they became popular in the late '70s was that they darted through traffic like maniacs and delivered legal or other business documents at speeds no other carrier could match.

There are MANY hills in New York where 30+ MPH speeds are possible, and even common, on road bikes, and from about '74 to '84, it was Mad Max. You'd see guys balancing at traffic lights, clipped in to 24-pound 10-speeds, and they'd just take off like rockets as soon as there was a break in traffic-- traffic lights are for cars only in Manhattan, even during the darkest Giuliani years, cops rarely ticketed cyclists or pedestrians for jaywalking, and I've seen them lead packs of jaywalkers across the street. And bike messengers, and other lunatic cyclists like them, were always leaping curbs, and darting between pedestrians when traffic gridlocked.

I still walk and ride the streets of New York. I expect it to be competitive and dangerous. I make eye contact with drivers, pedestrians, and other cyclists, point to the lane I'm going to take, and try not to worry too much about it. I know it is more crowded now, I guess that's something. But I have a hard time believing e-Bikes have made it significantly more dangerous than it was 10, 20, or 40 years ago, and it would take a lot to convince me.

 

[PedalUma]

As has been mentioned, density is key.
If you live on a 1,000 Acre ranch in Utah, who cares what bike you have or how fast you go? The same with air pollution and noise. A smelly straight pipe Harley does not belong in NYC, but if it is in South Dakota, that is fine. Some people strive to be vulgar and obnoxious. They do not belong in a civil, high density area. Ever noticed the worse the genera of music the louder it is played on the street?

 

[Asher]

I don't mean to be insensitive to pedestrians who are injured by bikes, but in a NYC, there has always been a *somewhat* reduced expectation for safety.

Not a total disregard for human life, not a post-apocalyptic Lord-Of-The-Flies hellscape, but a modestly increased chance of accidents of all kinds.

Yes, the whole point of racing ("road") bike messengers when they became popular in the late '70s was that they darted through traffic like maniacs and delivered legal or other business documents at speeds no other carrier could match.

There are MANY hills in New York where 30+ MPH speeds are possible, and even common, on road bikes, and from about '74 to '84, it was Mad Max. You'd see guys balancing at traffic lights, clipped in to 24-pound 10-speeds, and they'd just take off like rockets as soon as there was a break in traffic-- traffic lights are for cars only in Manhattan, even during the darkest Giuliani years, cops rarely ticketed cyclists or pedestrians for jaywalking, and I've seen them lead packs of jaywalkers across the street. And bike messengers, and other lunatic cyclists like them, were always leaping curbs, and darting between pedestrians when traffic gridlocked.

I still walk and ride the streets of New York. I expect it to be competitive and dangerous. I make eye contact with drivers, pedestrians, and other cyclists, point to the lane I'm going to take, and try not to worry too much about it. I know it is more crowded now, I guess that's something. But I have a hard time believing e-Bikes have made it significantly more dangerous than it was 10, 20, or 40 years ago, and it would take a lot to convince me.

Your response to people dying: Deal with it.

The problem with this attitude, apart from being a repulsive vice repugnant to say, major religions (thus the virtue of mercy and defense of human life generally ), is that you could say it regardless of the circumstance, and its entire purpose is to justify doing nothing, when almost invariably something can be done.

You're also wrong. New York has the lowest traffic death rate of any state (tied with MA). Saying as you do that people can go 30 mph a fraction of the time (downhill) is basically equal to going 30+ mph all the time everywhere with motor vehicles is also just more fallacious claptrap. https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state-by-state

 

[Elkman]

In Palo Alto CA in the 1970's the city decided to ban bicyles from the streets and required them to be used on the sidewalks. As should have been expected it resulted in a lot of serious biek and pedestrian collisions. In China and in Europe I have been on dedicated "streets" where cars were not allowed and so bicyclists could watch for pedestrians without being struck by a motorist. Where I live in California the city of Pacific Grove decided to impose a 12 mph speed limit on the bike path where it ran through the city limits. Problem was that it is a tourist area and many people stroll along the path in groups of 4 or more and often with strollers and they will stop anywhere and cross in front of bicyclists. Long ago I stopped riding that section of the bike path and would make a detour on the city streets where I had to watch out for idiots opening car doors in front of me but that was easier to avoid than inattentive pedestrians that are zoned out as they talk on their phones or watch their toddlers on the "bike" path.

More than 50% of the land area of an American city is taken over by motor vehicles for their movement, parking, and storage. Not a lot is left for bicyclists who are third class citizens at best. At least with an e-bike it is easier to keep up with car traffic on the city streets.