Direct drive + Pinion gearbox + Gates drive system = Lowest maintenance powerful E-bike

[Whoisthisdude]

@Ravi Kempaiah Any thoughts on importing a rear-hub drive bike with the klever gearshift to the US? I recently had my Stromer stolen in a break-in, and (having worked out a more secure lockup with my apartment building) and would love to get a similarly-powered rear-drive bike with a lower maintenance drivetrain. It seems that the pinion offering will be the only gearbox that can accomodate a rear-drive without a traditional casette, so would be interested to hear your thoughts on servicing etc., keeping in mind the rumors that Stromer is exiting the US in the event I decided to purchase something similar to what I had before (ST2 S).

I'd also be interested to hear more about this 2021 bike you're cooking up

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

@Ravi Kempaiah Any thoughts on importing a rear-hub drive bike with the klever gearshift to the US? I recently had my Stromer stolen in a break-in, and (having worked out a more secure lockup with my apartment building) and would love to get a similarly-powered rear-drive bike with a lower maintenance drivetrain. It seems that the pinion offering will be the only gearbox that can accomodate a rear-drive without a traditional casette, so would be interested to hear your thoughts on servicing etc., keeping in mind the rumors that Stromer is exiting the US in the event I decided to purchase something similar to what I had before (ST2 S).

Totally understand your situation. Stromer ST2-S is a fantastic bike and if you have a competent dealer nearby, then it is a delight. But, when things go wrong... it can be annoying.
You know Stromer was the major sponsor of my Guinness record ride and a lot of my friends bought the ST2-S. They trusted me but over the years, it became harder for me to recommend Stromer because of the lack of support in certain geographical regions and a few of my friends became frustrated. Having gone through this experience, I am always very careful recommending bikes because you have to keep in mind the service options 4-5 years down the line. If it was a $1000 bike, that's another story but when you pay $5K or $8K in the case of Stromer, that's the price of a good used Prius that could last 100,000 miles and it is totally ok to expect to decent service and parts availability for such premium bikes.

In theory Pinion + Gates + high quality motor/controller would be the best combo for commuting but electronics like the torque sensor, controller, display are something that can cause a lot of frustration if they are not vetted for reliability and service.

Many of the EU suppliers are sold out of bikes until 2021 and for sure, I will try to get hold of some. Were you looking for something like?

 

[vincent]

Wow

 

[Whoisthisdude]

@Ravi Kempaiah Any thoughts on importing a rear-hub drive bike with the klever gearshift to the US? I recently had my Stromer stolen in a break-in, and (having worked out a more secure lockup with my apartment building) and would love to get a similarly-powered rear-drive bike with a lower maintenance drivetrain. It seems that the pinion offering will be the only gearbox that can accomodate a rear-drive without a traditional casette, so would be interested to hear your thoughts on servicing etc., keeping in mind the rumors that Stromer is exiting the US in the event I decided to purchase something similar to what I had before (ST2 S).

Totally understand your situation. Stromer ST2-S is a fantastic bike and if you have a competent dealer nearby, then it is a delight. But, when things go wrong... it can be annoying.
You know Stromer was the major sponsor of my Guinness record ride and a lot of my friends bought the ST2-S. They trusted me but over the years, it became harder for me to recommend Stromer because of the lack of support in certain geographical regions and a few of my friends became frustrated. Having gone through this experience, I am always very careful recommending bikes because you have to keep in mind the service options 4-5 years down the line. If it was a $1000 bike, that's another story but when you pay $5K or $8K in the case of Stromer, that's the price of a good used Prius that could last 100,000 miles and it is totally ok to expect to decent service and parts availability for such premium bikes.

In theory Pinion + Gates + high quality motor/controller would be the best combo for commuting but electronics like the torque sensor, controller, display are something that can cause a lot of frustration if they are not vetted for reliability and service.

Many of the EU suppliers are sold out of bikes until 2021 and for sure, I will try to get hold of some. Were you looking for something like?

Thank you for the thoughtful response. That bike you posted is pretty much exactly what I'm looking for (Pinion+Gates). I'm a bit less knowledgeable on what constitutes a "high quality" rear-hub motor/controller so appreciate any help you can provide here. I feel fairly certain this setup is where things might be headed as the ebike commuter segment continues to expand here in the US, so am hoping that support will increase for non-cassette, belt-driven drivetrains going forward as sales (hopefully) go up/costs come down.

If ebikes are going to be able to take a significant bite out of the daily commute market share, it seems to me that these sort of low-maintenance solutions will need to become relative widespread before non-bikers consider trading in their keys for something on two wheels...just my two cents as someone living in NYC. Cost seems to prohibit this for now but I'll be interested to see what happens over the next few years.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

 

[FlatSix911]

Super nice design and integration... take my money!

 

[Deacon Blues]

What a beautiful ebike! They need to bring out a model with a pinion gearbox.

 

[Nova Haibike]

Super nice design and integration

Gag. Form over function. I hate that. It looks so nice, but you are inconvenienced by its design just to make it look good. Non-removable battery, so you have to schlep the bike to where you can plug it in? One button on the top tube where you have to push it over and over because there are no separate up or down buttons? Lights built into the handlebars and seatpost, preventing the use of an under seat bag or handlebar bag or basket? Never mind that you cannot aim the front light, or change the handlebar to any kind without losing the light. Also, if you are short, fugetaboutit. They only offer a small size of 53 cm and you cannot lower the seat much without losing use of the lights built into the seatpost.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

What a beautiful ebike! They need to bring out a model with a pinion gearbox.

they do have one and I meant to post this.

 

[Deacon Blues]

Thank goodness they don't sell their bikes in Canada........

 

[Cyklefanatic]

Gotta say I agree with Ravi about using a hub drive, pinion and gates belt for reliability, simplicity and low maintenance.
in fact once you get rid of the derailleur you gain a good chain line and then you can use a much wider stronger chain that you can abuse but will still last forever.

 

[Explorer-1]

Welcome to Alaska
Pinion vs Rohloff

 

[scottsdalecommuter]

Welcome to Alaska
Pinion vs Rohloff

I’m finding this an interesting thread. I plan to commute 3000 miles per year and currently have aventon pace 500 which meets my current needs and budget (sub 2k). I am starting to research my next commuter bike and think thinnner tires, single speed (flat route in phx so never change gears), range of 30 to 40 miles, and lighter would be nice. I have a young family so cost is a concern and wouldn’t want to go much over 3k for the next few years and could bump to 5k after that. I’m comfortable right now riding at 21 mph and don’t feel safe going much faster based on my current route. I’ll have to do some more research on the rear hub vs mid drive motors and the different pedal sensors. The bike I have is more of an on or off with the pedal sensor and doesn’t feel super natural and doesn’t let me pedal hard or it feels I’m fighting the motor. Thanks for all the great info and I’ll keep doing research too! One of the best decisions I’ve made in my 30s to start ebike commuting to work for a ton of reasons!!!

 

[PedalUma]

I am working on one now that IMO has a winning combination of a 7-pound mid-drive, to HL1L Wide chain, to an IGH. Why I like it: The mid-drive has the weight low in the middle of the bike for handling and power gets multiplied by the gears. The HL1L Wide chain is about as strong as a belt but less expensive. Finally, the internally geared hub is low maintenance, smooth, and can be shifted at a stop. This chain will need tightening after three-days. Then again at three-weeks. After the break in period you are good to go.

 

[PedalUma]

Here is the difference. The plates, rollers and pins are much more robust. Stresses are distributed, blunted over a larger area, not focused, or cutting. Though not for race day these are stronger chains made to last trouble free like a belt. Belts are also wide and strong so they last. But these chains are about $20 to replace. An e-10 is $55. A Gates belt is $70 but requires a proprietary chainring and cog. Those are big bucks.

 

[Explorer-1]

On a belt drive though i would think you are not replacing the cogs very often or i would guess ever for most people? Just the belt for frequent riders or off road riders.

 

[PedalUma]

On a belt drive though i would think you are not replacing the cogs very often or i would guess ever for most people? Just the belt for frequent riders or off road riders.

True. I replaced a Nexus IGH cog yesterday. It was $5. A Gates cog is form $70 to $270. At the lower figure you could buy 14:1. Grit will grind a Gates. It becomes a sanding belt. That is why there is a popular replacement parts market for them. Then there is the labor. After replacing a second cog the process is second nature. Easy.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

I thought this bike was very impressive both from a utility and design point of view.
ASKA Super commuter.
Right from full-suspension + Gates belt combo to Pinion drive system. Oh, it has dual suspension and the rear rack is fully suspended. Everything is thought out very well.

 

[Johnny]

I thought this bike was very impressive both from a utility and design point of view.
ASKA Super commuter.
Right from full-suspension + Gates belt combo to Pinion drive system. Oh, it has dual suspension and the rear rack is fully suspended. Everything is thought out very well.

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This is what a high end commuter should be. Unfortunately there are no such offerings in the states.

It has only one drawback, if it is corrected it would be the perfect commuter bicycle.

 

[mclewis1]

I thought this bike was very impressive both from a utility and design point of view. ASKA Super commuter.
Right from full-suspension + Gates belt combo to Pinion drive system. Oh, it has dual suspension and the rear rack is fully suspended. Everything is thought out very well.

Interesting frame with no apparent welds (ok perhaps the top tube to seat post area?), mostly stamped components with fasteners?
I wonder what the cost and weight penalty is vs. the shipping, lower cost assembly and supportability benefits?
Could different size bikes be accommodated by only changing out a few frame components? (that could be a huge benefit to a manufacturer these days)