BBS*** Settings for a Smoother Ride

[tomjasz]

The Bafang Bible worshipers that did not try it for themselves but just condemned it.

Who and where? Anyone with real experience or just the usual Google searchers that seldom if ever, vet their copy and pasted results?

 

[voidedwarranty]

Hard to argue it doesn't belong in a thread about smooth PAS settings though .

Now it's not so hard to believe how I didn't even realize these were different threads.

 

[Gionnirocket]

I thought I should update this as I've now adopted the high Stop Decay setting that I was experimenting with and tweaked some other settings to compensate for minor changes in speed and acceleration.

Top Speed is set to 28mph on my display.
PAS 0: Neutral, no Pas or Throttle. Walk Mode still works.
PAS 1- 2 To navigate tight paths, steep bumpy trails or any slow speed situation. (Usually in gear 1-2)
PAS 2-3 To get you rolling in most flat ground situations
PAS 4- 7 My mostly used... Keeps me in the teens as far as speed depending on the gear I'm in.
PAS 7-8 For +/-20 mph
PAS 9 Mostly to facilitate a full Throttle range as I have my Throttle set to PAS 9 and with full power and speed.
My Throttle Start and End Voltage are set for a Half Throttle Grip, not the stock Thumb throttle

One note on how I ride and use PAS. I ride mostly for exercise and am looking for minimal motor assistance except for hills. I use my gears the same as if I had no motor assistance. I think of PAS as my choices in cadence and increase PAS to increase my pedaling speed and typically end up applying the same amount of pedal force across the range. That's why my PAS Current settings are in a narrow range between 65% and 74%. The motor requires this much current to work the way I want but rarely reaches those levels except on hills as the PAS Speed% setting tempers it on flat terrain. When on a flat I'm usually drawing from 0 - 3a depending on gear and minor changes in my effort. If I encounter resistance (a hill or wind) that causes me to slow, the motor will compensate to keep me at the set cadence speed typically below 10a. When encountering a greater resistance causing amperage to go above 10a, I'll typically downshift to ease strain on myself and the motor.
Anywho. . .this is the happiest I've been with the BBS02B settings since I've been using it and I'm so stoked that I paused my plans to pick up an Ultra powered bike next spring. Well mostly this and a little bit of the inability to personalize the new CANBUS motors.

 

[AHicks]

If they don't fix this CANBUS programming issue, they're going to kill the Bafang big block market. BBSxx and Ultra.......

I like the logic behind what you're doing/have done. Can't wait to try some of this, along with my 27.5" wheel/tire conversion, with the Ultra (1st of November).

 

[Calicoskies]

Thought I would share what I have been using for the last couple of weeks. Have a Ultra Duo Biktrix M620/G510 motor with the SRAM NX 11-42t and 44T chainring. One of the last shipments without canbus.

Using the Frey smooth settings that AHicks had me research from his other posting. Exercise casual rider on paved somewhat hilly greenway paths mostly (Raleigh, NC). Stay in PAS 1 mostly and with the 400 or 500 watt range depending on pressure applied to pedals it is working well so far. Will need to try some more settings on the Pedal Tab to be able to tell what works for me. My speed is set to 40 mph just so I can see the scale of watts on my DPC-18 go up to 1500, if set to 29 or 30 mph the range is lowered to 750. Does this affect PAS at all or because it uses RPM and not speed it should not matter? Great discussions from you guys by the way, thanks.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Thought I would share what I have been using for the last couple of weeks. Have a Ultra Duo Biktrix M620/G510 motor with the SRAM NX 11-42t and 44T chainring. One of the last shipments without canbus.

Using the Frey smooth settings that AHicks had me research from his other posting. Exercise casual rider on paved somewhat hilly greenway paths mostly (Raleigh, NC). Stay in PAS 1 mostly and with the 400 or 500 watt range depending on pressure applied to pedals it is working well so far. Will need to try some more settings on the Pedal Tab to be able to tell what works for me. My speed is set to 40 mph just so I can see the scale of watts on my DPC-18 go up to 1500, if set to 29 or 30 mph the range is lowered to 750. Does this affect PAS at all or because it uses RPM and not speed it should not matter? Great discussions from you guys by the way, thanks.

I see you're another that is trying the "exaggerated" Stop Decay approach. I believe that the Frey Smooth called for a setting of 10 and the stock Bafang was 0
What do you feel that the setting of 130 does for the Ultra?

 

[Calicoskies]

The one item I did not like was the barely on (50 or 100 watts) or motor cycling on and off, gave off a noise (whooshing sound). Think the Stop Decay may help keep the motor from stopping and starting. I need to change it back down to 10 or 20 and see if I can tell difference that I have a hundred miles or so at 130. I run in Sport Mode PAS 1 since Frey suggested that some settings are hard programmed which seems correct to me. Wondering if the running in Sport instead of ECO was the difference or the Stop Decay. Adding the Torque settings may be messing with everything.

 

[Gionnirocket]

The one item I did not like was the barely on (50 or 100 watts) or motor cycling on and off, gave off a noise (whooshing sound). Think the Stop Decay may help keep the motor from stopping and starting. I need to change it back down to 10 or 20 and see if I can tell difference that I have a hundred miles or so at 130. I run in Sport Mode PAS 1 since Frey suggested that some settings are hard programmed which seems correct to me. Wondering if the running in Sport instead of ECO was the difference or the Stop Decay. Adding the Torque settings may be messing with everything.

I think that the Ultra is a totally different animal because of torque sensing.. but was curious about what your experience was with Stop Decay.

 

[looseheadset]

[ICODE][/ICODE]

I thought I should update this as I've now adopted the high Stop Decay setting that I was experimenting with and tweaked some other settings to compensate for minor changes in speed and acceleration.

Top Speed is set to 28mph on my display.
PAS 0: Neutral, no Pas or Throttle. Walk Mode still works.
PAS 1- 2 To navigate tight paths, steep bumpy trails or any slow speed situation. (Usually in gear 1-2)
PAS 2-3 To get you rolling in most flat ground situations
PAS 4- 7 My main usage riding... Keeps me in the teens as far as speed depending on the gear I'm in.
PAS 7-8 For +/-20 mph
PAS 9 Mostly to facilitate a full Throttle range as I have my Throttle set to PAS 9 and with full power and speed.
My Throttle Start and End Voltage are set for a Half Throttle Grip, not the stock Thumb throttle

View attachment 98147

View attachment 98148

View attachment 98149

One note on how I ride and use PAS. I ride mostly for exercise and am looking for minimal motor assistance except for hills. I use my gears the same as if I had no motor assistance. I think of PAS as my choices in cadence and increase PAS to increase my pedaling speed and typically end up applying the same amount of pedal force across the range. That's why my PAS Current settings are in a narrow range between 65% and 74%. The motor requires this much current to work the way I want but rarely reaches those levels except on hills as the PAS Speed% setting tempers it on flat terrain. When on a flat I'm usually drawing from 0 - 3a depending on gear and minor changes in my effort. If I encounter resistance (a hill or wind) that causes me to slow, the motor will compensate to keep me at the set cadence speed typically below 10a. When encountering a greater resistance causing amperage to go above 10a, I'll typically downshift to ease strain on myself and the motor.
Anywho. . .this is the happiest I've been with the BBS02B settings since I've been using it and I'm so stoked that I paused my plans to pick up an Ultra powered bike next spring. Well mostly this and a little bit of the inability to personalize the new CANBUS motors.

That's how I ride too.
I have another gravel bike I usually ride when steep hills aren't on the route.
If I don't want to deal with hills and roads that have no shoulder I have to drive somewhere.
Thanks for sharing your settings.

 

[voidedwarranty]

@Gionnirocket
Well I have dialed back my decay from 100 to 25. And made a few other minor changes as well:
Pedal Assist start current: 5 (down from 10)
Throttle start current: 1 (down from 2)
Slow start: 6 (up from 5)
Stop Decay: 25 (down from 100)
Pedal start up degree: 4 (down from 5)

Also I dumped the 20t rear cog for the 24t I have been waiting 2 months for.

The motor cut out I had mentioned in previous posts did not happen on this 10.4 mile ride. More riding will be needed to see if it's definitely gone, but so far the motor cut has been consistent by mile 7 of my rides and haven't noticed it on this one. Could be from stop Decay but again, too much has been changed to say for sure. Turning down the start current for pedal assist has kept everything smooth when coming back on pedalling from coasting. More than one way to skin a cat a guess

What I can say, the 24t rear cog is a monster! I'm climbing my elevation changes in PAS1 instead of kicking in to PAS2 or 3. Also the higher cadence in top gear is reflected in my heart rate during the ride. New highest average BPM over 10.4 miles and new highest cal/min burn.

 

[Gionnirocket]

@Gionnirocket
Well I have dialed back my decay from 100 to 25. And made a few other minor changes as well:
Pedal Assist start current: 5 (down from 10)
Throttle start current: 1 (down from 2)
Slow start: 6 (up from 5)
Stop Decay: 25 (down from 100)
Pedal start up degree: 4 (down from 5)

Also I dumped the 20t rear cog for the 24t I have been waiting 2 months for.

The motor cut out I had mentioned in previous posts did not happen on this 10.4 mile ride. More riding will be needed to see if it's definitely gone, but so far the motor cut has been consistent by mile 7 of my rides and haven't noticed it on this one. Could be from stop Decay but again, too much has been changed to say for sure. Turning down the start current for pedal assist has kept everything smooth when coming back on pedalling from coasting. More than one way to skin a cat a guess

What I can say, the 24t rear cog is a monster! I'm climbing my elevation changes in PAS1 instead of kicking in to PAS2 or 3. Also the higher cadence in top gear is reflected in my heart rate during the ride. New highest average BPM over 10.4 miles and new highest cal/min burn.

Skin a cat. . kick a dead horse. . it all works!
I assume you made the mechanical repairs you mentioned earlier. As for the settings, when you change more than one at a time it's hard to know what exactly is going on as I feel they interact and the combined changes aren't as intuitive as one would think. Maybe ride this for a while and then make any further changes one at a time.
Also note that the HD doesn't seem to have the gremlins that the 02B has so all other being equal you may have different results.

 

[Calicoskies]

I have updated my above settings, see below. After many miles of changing one item at a time this seems to be working well for me. I moved away from the Stop Decay of 130 after trying several higher and lower numbers. Felt like it was keeping the motor running more at that 50 watt area which I just do not like that sound the Ultra Metal Gear makes at that low RPM. These are based off the Frey Smooth settings. Adjusted the Torque to work better with my current leg strength.

 

[AHicks]

So it does appear that the Ultra does play by many of the same BBSxx rules.

 

[Gionnirocket]

So it does appear that the Ultra does play by many of the same BBSxx rules.

Yes, especially the page 4 Torque Settings

 

[AHicks]

Yes, especially the page 4 Torque Settings

Always splitting hairs. You know darn well I was talking about the first 3 pages.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Always splitting hairs. You know darn well I was talking about the first 3 pages.

 

[Gionnirocket]

I have updated my above settings, see below. After many miles of changing one item at a time this seems to be working well for me. I moved away from the Stop Decay of 130 after trying several higher and lower numbers. Felt like it was keeping the motor running more at that 50 watt area which I just do not like that sound the Ultra Metal Gear makes at that low RPM. These are based off the Frey Smooth settings. Adjusted the Torque to work better with my current leg strength.

This brings up one question for me.
You found no benefit with an elevated Stop Decay at all? Say if the motor noise was not a factor.
Very few BBS* users here have commented but those that have tried raising the Stop Decay did find a setting between 25 - 100 beneficial as far as motor smoothness and possibly some efficiency as well.

 

[Calicoskies]

This brings up one question for me.
You found no benefit with an elevated Stop Decay at all? Say if the motor noise was not a factor.
Very few BBS* users here have commented but those that have tried raising the Stop Decay did find a setting between 25 - 100 beneficial as far as motor smoothness and possibly some efficiency as well.

Think it has something to do with the Torque Sensor. The bike is pretty smooth after using the Frey settings, stock was not good for me. I went from 130 20 100 and back to 130 and when I ghost pedal on level ground you could hear the motor running but not providing much assist, just noise. It was holding the motor on instead of shutting down to no assist. Went back to zero and shuts down and can keep ghost pedal with no motor noise. Difficult to explain. Did not adjust 0 speed boost or my base voltage on Torque tab, working well for me but may try them down the road. I did adjust a few things to the sensitivity of range in 0-5Kg and so forth. Spd0 and Spd20 max current down a little.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Think it has something to do with the Torque Sensor. The bike is pretty smooth after using the Frey settings, stock was not good for me. I went from 130 20 100 and back to 130 and when I ghost pedal on level ground you could hear the motor running but not providing much assist, just noise. It was holding the motor on instead of shutting down to no assist. Went back to zero and shuts down and can keep ghost pedal with no motor noise. Difficult to explain. Did not adjust 0 speed boost or my base voltage on Torque tab, working well for me but may try them down the road. I did adjust a few things to the sensitivity of range in 0-5Kg and so forth. Spd0 and Spd20 max current down a little.

Ok... Now two more points.
1...why do you want to ghost pedal?
2...this is my problem with the all 100% Speed setting for PAS....the motor always wants to run as it's impossible to satisfy the speed. And without Torque control on BBS**'s motors.. it does.

 

[Calicoskies]

Ok... Now two more points.
1...why do you want to ghost pedal?
2...this is my problem with the all 100% Speed setting for PAS....the motor always wants to run as it's impossible to satisfy the speed. And without Torque control on BBS**'s motors.. it does.

Was just a way to explain it, not really ghost pedaling. Just spinning the pedals going down a hill or moving slow around people. Not sure about the speed, I rarely move off of PAS 1. I use the 1-5 setting. When at speed my watts do stay around 100 or less I guess. Apply a little more pressure and going 15 instead of 10 mph. With me, bike bag and bike takes a lot to move that 380 lbs.