BBS*** Settings for a Smoother Ride

[Gionnirocket]

There's been some discussion amongst us older folk who still enjoy pedaling and getting some exercise but want a little motor assist now and then without the heavy acceleration, aggressive launching and just want an all around smoother less intrusive ride. I've been playing around with settings and have been using a variation of the following for about 1000 miles now with good results. These aren't going to be perfect for everyone as I feel there are many variables that come into play. Bicycle and rider weight, motor wattage, battery voltage, bicycle gearing, style of riding and terrain just to name a few. But these settings may help you get close to your needs and I find them much more enjoyable than the stock settings that came loaded on the BBS02B.
I'm not going to get into great detail about what each setting does, but I'll be more than happy to answer any questions as to why I made any specific change.
In general...
Pas 0: Neutral, no Pas or Throttle
Pas 1- 3 To get you rolling or to navigate tight paths or any slow speed situations
Pas 4- 6 My main usage riding... Keeps me in the teens as far as speed.
Pas 7-8 For the near +/-20 mph times
Pas 9 Now your movin'... But really for using the Throttle as I have it set so the Throttle will always use Pas 9 near full power and speed.
There is a slight delay when trying to apply throttle when peddling because you are providing two inputs but it does work. Throttle is instantaneous when not pedaling in Pas 1 - 9.
My Speed is set to be Controlled by the Display and I have it set to 30mph. This allows me to tweak things up or down a bit on the road, but honestly I haven't had the need.
In each pic... On the left is the Factory Setting, on the right are the changes I've made
The settings are easy enough to change but let me know if you want the .el file.
If anyone sees some potential problems with these settings or has any suggestions please chime in as I'm still learning as well.

EDIT: Take 3... I've made further changes as I've experimented and gained some more experience.
Shortcut to Page 7 / Post 123

 

[AHicks]

OK, under the pedal assist tab-
Start degree, you've changed from the default of 4 to 10. I could be wrong here, but isn't this the number of magnets that move past the cadence sensor before the motor starts getting any power? If so, why would you increase that? I would likely go with 2, to prevent accidental activation while getting the power on ASAP.

Then under stop delay. I'm thinking I want this thing to shut off right now when I stop pedaling. Setting is set to 25. Is that the lowest possible?

The Ultra equivalent of this chart is much more complicated..... with speed and torque values to consider in addition to what we have here....

The BBSHD is still being sold by a few (Juggernaut HD) and uses the same chart you have here, or one very similar. Complicates the decision one vs. the other if you take the "value" of torque sensing out of the picture.

Thanks for taking the trouble to put the before and after charts up! -Al

 

[Gionnirocket]

Hi Al
In regards to the Start Degree, this is a personal preference. This allows me about 1/2 a crank revolution and about a seconds time which is enough for me to adjust my PAS and gears if I forgot to before stopping.. Especially useful for the unplanned stops like trying to avoid a suicidal squirrel. I don't have an issue getting the bike rolling from a stop and if I find that I'm in a situation where I do, I can feather the throttle for a little help before I start pedaling. I also like it higher to help avoid any motor activation by accident like adjusting pedal position before starting off or while walking the bike. I really haven't found the delay to be a problem.
And with Stop Decay it can be set as low as 0.
25 is the Factory setting and I haven't made any changes to settings that show no sign of being a problem. I haven't read any reason to change this.
I'll add that when stopping or wanting to slow down you are breaking so the motor has stopped already. And when riding and you stop pedaling the motor cuts power more slowly for a smoother transition

 

[Gionnirocket]

I'll add to my original post and say that the stock Bafang settings and also the Hacker’s Guide though an excellent article have some flaws in my opinion... Especially for the way we ride. The PAS settings are set from low to high as far as speed and power using a linear increase as you go up the scale. But for me using those settings I found the lower settings too aggressive and would rarely go above PAS 4 or 5. The way I have it set I find myself using a much wider range and making better use of having 9 PAS settings available.
Not to say that it's perfect or for anyone else... But I see no reason to have settings that are faster than I can keep up with pedaling.

 

[AHicks]

Hi Al
In regards to the Start Degree, this is a personal preference. This allows me about 1/2 a crank revolution and about a seconds time which is enough for me to adjust my PAS and gears if I forgot to before stopping.. Especially useful for the unplanned stops like trying to avoid a suicidal squirrel. I don't have an issue getting the bike rolling from a stop and if I find that I'm in a situation where I do, I can feather the throttle for a little help before I start pedaling. I also like it higher to help avoid any motor activation by accident like adjusting pedal position before starting off or while walking the bike. I really haven't found the delay to be a problem.
And with Stop Decay it can be set as low as 0.
25 is the Factory setting and I haven't made any changes to settings that show no sign of being a problem. I haven't read any reason to change this.
I'll add that when stopping or wanting to slow down you are breaking so the motor has stopped already. And when riding and you stop pedaling the motor cuts power more slowly for a smoother transition

Regarding the on-off settings, I guess what I'm thinking about is maneuvering in tight areas at low speed. Having the controller respond to my pedal movement as quickly as possible makes the bike more intuitive and easier to handle in my mind. Underscore "my mind". I can see there's room for different priorities. That motor running on after I've stopped pedaling for instance, would not only be a distraction here, it could get me in trouble as that would be something totally foreign to me.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Regarding the on-off settings, I guess what I'm thinking about is maneuvering in tight areas at low speed. Having the controller respond to my pedal movement as quickly as possible makes the bike more intuitive and easier to handle in my mind. Underscore "my mind". I can see there's room for different priorities. That motor running on after I've stopped pedaling for instance, would not only be a distraction here, it could get me in trouble as that would be something totally foreign to me.

You are correct, maneuvering it in a tight space at a very slow cadence can be a problem with the setting as I have. Especially if you haven't made any other modifications. But I just use the throttle or Pas 0 in those situations as I find that to be the most accurate to control. I also have my Pas 1 at a very modest assist.
But as far as the motor continuing to go after you stop pedaling it is negligible and only assist in smoothing things out. We are talking about 25 milliseconds here. I doubt very much that you can see or feel it. And as it is the stock setting I haven't heard any complaints about those without programming mod's saying there is an issue.

 

[AHicks]

Maybe Ultra specific, but I've watch videos of those running on after you stopped pedaling, and it was not something you would measure with milliseconds. There are a LOT of complaints regarding Ultra state of tune as received, unless from a manf. that dials them in a little closer prior to sale/shipping.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Good to know. As I only have experience with the BBS02B I wasn't exploring Bafangs other offers or reading much about them.
I'm going to pay close attention on my next ride and let you know what I can. But honestly I have yet to be aware of a situation where I felt the motor running beyond what I wanted. Keep in mind that it's only a factor when moving forward and it's ramping down as well. In any stopping or slowing situation the breaking takes care of motor shutdown instantaneously.
For reference... The duration of an eye blink is on average 100–150 milliseconds according to UCL researcher

Good foresight on the previous post about maneuvers in tight spaces at slow speeds and the Start Degree
It didn't occur to me until I found myself in the situation a few weeks after making the change. I still feel the pros outweigh that cons and I find myself taking advantage of the benefits more often than I find myself in that particular situation. And now when I do, I have my work around already ingrained. I find throttle so much easier as I struggle with my busted legs in those situations, especially up hill... and this was true even before the addition of the motor.
That's why I don't think there is any "right" settings for everyone. Your terrain and how you ride are key factors in a lot of this.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Good morning Mr. @AHicks
On my ride last night I paid close attention to motor engagement and when you stop pedaling it's virtually instantaneous. I couldn't even begin a count. I tried during a normal ride and also trying to be aggressive by using PAS 9 from a slow roll... and as soon as I stop pedaling the motor stopped. So the quarter blink of an eye time frame seems fine to me.
Not trying to convince you to use my settings... you should set it to whatever you are comfortable with

 

[AHicks]

I don't even have a bike yet! Your experience noted though. Thank you for that! I think some of the settings I start with are going to depend on the dealer I buy from. Checking in to that currently. Roshan at Biktrix is supposed to be an Ultra guru. His prices are a little high as compared to similarly equipped bikes, and I'm willing to pay to get some of that experience - IF - that's what I'm actually going to get. If he's not massaging that tune a little on his bikes, I'll likely go with a much less expensive bike and strike out on a good tune of my own.

I'm very close to making a decision, have been screwing around reading and researching for weeks. To be honest, going mid drive will be quite a leap of faith for me. I spent a lot of time (and money) getting a BIG hub drive just right, so this mid drive will have a very high bar to meet to just equal the performance and ease of riding I have currently.

My biggest reason for the new bike is to try a fatty. The hope is the higher flotation in sugar sand will be useful, but the bigger deal is about the ride those big balloons should be able to provide. Switch to street tire will be made during initial assembly as I already know I'm going to hate the noisey knobbys. -Al

 

[TForan]

I don't even have a bike yet! Your experience noted though. Thank you for that! I think some of the settings I start with are going to depend on the dealer I buy from. Checking in to that currently. Roshan at Biktrix is supposed to be an Ultra guru. His prices are a little high as compared to similarly equipped bikes, and I'm willing to pay to get some of that experience - IF - that's what I'm actually going to get. If he's not massaging that tune a little on his bikes, I'll likely go with a much less expensive bike and strike out on a good tune of my own.

I'm very close to making a decision, have been screwing around reading and researching for weeks. To be honest, going mid drive will be quite a leap of faith for me. I spent a lot of time (and money) getting a BIG hub drive just right, so this mid drive will have a very high bar to meet to just equal the performance and ease of riding I have currently.

My biggest reason for the new bike is to try a fatty. The hope is the higher flotation in sugar sand will be useful, but the bigger deal is about the ride those big balloons should be able to provide. Switch to street tire will be made during initial assembly as I already know I'm going to hate the noisey knobbys. -Al

Yup, Roshan can dial them in perfectly.

 

[tomjasz]

A useful chart.

 

[AHicks]

Thanks Thomas! File saved for study as I get more involved.

 

[tomjasz]

Thanks Thomas! File saved for study as I get more involved.

I also have a collection of .el files. Including those in the pdf.

 

[AHicks]

I've tried sending you a PM twice and it would appear you have that feature shut off. I can certainnly understand why you might do that. Maybe you could send a quick note to me at [email protected]. That way I might be able to bounce an idea or question off of you via email?

 

[tomjasz]

I've tried sending you a PM twice and it would appear you have that feature shut off. I can certainnly understand why you might do that. Maybe you could send a quick note to me at [email protected]. That way I might be able to bounce an idea or question off of you via email?

Not sure what's up with that. I discovered PM's were blocked early this past week and thought I had it sorted. Email sent but messaging here is fine too!

 

[tomjasz]

I've tried sending you a PM

Please try again?

 

[Gionnirocket]

A useful chart.

Nice chart Thomas!
Do you have the excel file?
The page breaks aren't set and the pdf printed all chopped up

 

[Gionnirocket]

I don't even have a bike yet! Your experience noted though. Thank you for that! I think some of the settings I start with are going to depend on the dealer I buy from. Checking in to that currently. Roshan at Biktrix is supposed to be an Ultra guru. His prices are a little high as compared to similarly equipped bikes, and I'm willing to pay to get some of that experience - IF - that's what I'm actually going to get. If he's not massaging that tune a little on his bikes, I'll likely go with a much less expensive bike and strike out on a good tune of my own.

I'm very close to making a decision, have been screwing around reading and researching for weeks. To be honest, going mid drive will be quite a leap of faith for me. I spent a lot of time (and money) getting a BIG hub drive just right, so this mid drive will have a very high bar to meet to just equal the performance and ease of riding I have currently.

My biggest reason for the new bike is to try a fatty. The hope is the higher flotation in sugar sand will be useful, but the bigger deal is about the ride those big balloons should be able to provide. Switch to street tire will be made7 during initial assembly as I already know I'm going to hate the noisey knobbys. -Al

That's great... Having never driven a hub motor I don't have much to say... but in doing research I liked the concept of mid_drive over hub.
If I love the BBS02B... I can only imagine the Ultra as an awesome upgrade. I've been curious about a fat bike myself but really don't think I would ride in conditions they were made for... Sand, snow... etc.. Yes as you may have seen on some of my other posts, tires make a big difference and knobbies gotta go if you're not riding dirt.
I wouldn't pay someone to tune it for me as I feel it is a personal thing and requires a little trial and error with a personal touch towards the user... as first mentioned there are many variables. Plus it's nice to have the cable and understand the settings so you can do tweaks if situation change. It's really not hard at all once you get into it

 

[AHicks]

I WILL be tuning, or attempting to at the very least. I have a pretty good idea of what I'd like to see happening with pretty docile settings in PAS 1 and 2, becoming increasingly aggressive as you get to PAS 5. Don't think I would have any need to spread that out to 9 levels.

Roshan has the actual source code the software uses, and has played with (massaged) that. That's not something many of us are capable of messing with.

We're very close to pulling the trigger here...

Re: hub drives, from a performance perspective 1000w+ MAC geared hub drives have all most of us would ever need. I can climb the steepest hills in PAS 3 (with my 300lb butt aboard), and there's very little chance of smoking the 35a controller taking off in the wrong gear using the throttle. The 3 year old 14.5 ah battery still provides an easy 35 mile range, even in the hills. The KT controller features what they call "imitation torque control" which is based strictly on power available to the motor determined by PAS level, not based on speed. So in PAS 1 for instance, there will be about 90w available, and that same 90w will be available no matter the speed (up to wherever the limit is set). In practice it's, very similar to torque sensing. It's my hope that I can get the Bafang programming to perform as nicely as what I've been using. We'll see... I have an open mind on the topic! -Al