BBS*** Settings for a Smoother Ride

[Gionnirocket]

Just did another 9.5 mile ride. Had several motor cut outs only immediately after pausing pedalling to take a turn. Sometimes the motor wouldn't kick back on until I jabbed the throttle.

It's entirely possible this is not related to the changes in programming. I have issues with my gear shift sensor getting too close to my right brake lever and causing electrical interference which the controller interprets as pulling the brake lever. I haven't had this specific issue since I zip tied the sensor down but today I did shift the handlebars in the stem before I went out. Turns out the 4 bolts for the stem loosened up and my handlebars have been slowly turning down when I lean on them. This may have also caused the cable tension to my IGH to tighten up which could also have triggered the gear shift sensor to cut power.

Bike needs a little inspection.

The whole ride was done in PAS1, different route than my usual. This route had a little more elevation change. Maybe the keep current at 80% was too much for some hills. And I mean fairly low grade hills. My pedalling was in 1st and I never felt much strain in my legs but was definitely on the pedals and not ghost pedalling.

Yeah... Getting the bike properly together would be my priority.
And just another example of why shift sensors can be as much trouble as they are worth. I still haven't been convinced to add one and proper shifting technique works well to avoid drivetrain strain

 

[voidedwarranty]

Yeah... Getting the bike properly together would be my priority.
And just another example of why shift sensors can be as much trouble as they are worth. I still haven't been convinced to add one and proper shifting technique works well to avoid drivetrain strain

Now that I have the IGH, the gear shift sensor is definitely useless because now, I can shift without pedalling, which is what I do anyways.

When installing the new shifter and cable for the IGH, it was easier to thread the bare cable through the existing cable insulation which meant leaving the gear shift sensor in place. I skipped the annoying step of measuring and cutting new insulation to size and threading it through the frame.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Now that I have the IGH, the gear shift sensor is definitely useless because now, I can shift without pedalling, which is what I do anyways.

When installing the new shifter and cable for the IGH, it was easier to thread the bare cable through the existing cable insulation which meant leaving the gear shift sensor in place. I skipped the annoying step of measuring and cutting new insulation to size and threading it through the frame.

But now which do you find more annoying?

 

[voidedwarranty]

But now which do you find more annoying?

Hindsight is always 20/20 isn't it?

I had planned to install my new rear cog, new chain tensioner and a new rear tire tube this weekend anyways, so I guess I'll just add to the list, removal of gear shift sensor.

I should make an entirely new thread about how annoying it is to install and remove a rear hub with 170mm outer lock nut dimensions to a 190mm rear drop out.

 

[tomjasz]

I distributed the first beta Gear Sensors on endless_sphere. Personally I’ve never embraced them. However in an IGH build they are considered by most users as essential protection.

 

[voidedwarranty]

I distributed the first beta Gear Sensors on endless_sphere. Personally I’ve never embraced them. However in an IGH build they are considered by most users as essential protection.

I don't hate it. Every once in a while when in PAS1 it's fun to do a 1-2 shift while pedalling. The gear shift is so instantaneous it feels like the bicycle equivalent of a dual clutch gearbox shift on a sports car. The gear shift sensor cuts the power for the perfect amount of time for that to happen without causing any problems.

 

[voidedwarranty]

Going back over the explanations for the settings in the "hackers guide to programming" something really bugs me.

The definition for Time of Stop, and Stop Decay are practically the same thing. So what's really going on with these two? From the website:

Time of Stop(x10ms): 25\25\25\25\10– This affects how quickly the drive stops after you stop pedaling.

Stop Decay(x10ms): 0\0\0\20\0 – The amount of time the system takes to cut after pedaling stops

Is this not saying the exact same thing?

 

[Gionnirocket]

Going back over the explanations for the settings in the "hackers guide to programming" something really bugs me.

The definition for Time of Stop, and Stop Decay are practically the same thing. So what's really going on with these two? From the website:

Time of Stop(x10ms): 25\25\25\25\10– This affects how quickly the drive stops after you stop pedaling.

Stop Decay(x10ms): 0\0\0\20\0 – The amount of time the system takes to cut after pedaling stops

Is this not saying the exact same thing?

I feel that their (and everyone else since) explanation of Stop Decay is wrong.
I think this sheds some light on why no one has ever tried experimenting with it or tried increasing it as high as I have.
And that's what led to me starting the other thread trying to explore the benefits that I believe it has. YMMV

The internet is full of misinformation read and repeated, and repeated, and repeated.

 

[tomjasz]

No one?

if you are serious about this discussion why not engage posters with far more experience in working with the settings?

We, the clueless unwashed, might still be taught something.

 

[voidedwarranty]

No one?

if you are serious about this discussion why not engage posters with far more experience in working with the settings?

We, the clueless unwashed, might still be taught something.

According to the discussion you linked, it seems Time of Stop is related to the amount of time from when there is no longer a signal from pedal cadence to the motor reacting to that stop in pedalling. Stop Decay is then the time it takes for the motor to wind down once the Time of Stop period has been met with no additional pedalling.

That is a much better and clearer explanation of the difference between the two settings and also how they work together.

 

[Gionnirocket]

No one?

if you are serious about this discussion why not engage posters with far more experience in working with the settings?

We, the clueless unwashed, might still be taught something.

That thread for the most part repeats everything that hacker's guide says.
One person did try a higher Stop Decay but quickly changed back sighting what others do.
I'm not sure what more you want than the other thread I started but I'm not here to convince anyone. I provided my findings with the best explanation I could. Asked others for their experience... now do with it what you like.

 

[Gionnirocket]

According to the discussion you linked, it seems Time of Stop is related to the amount of time from when there is no longer a signal from pedal cadence to the motor reacting to that stop in pedalling. Stop Decay is then the time it takes for the motor to wind down once the Time of Stop period has been met with no additional pedalling.

That is a much better and clearer explanation of the difference between the two settings and also how they work together.

It's a different explanation... But is that what you experienced?
I haven't witnessed a millisecond of motor run_on after pedal stop with a setting as high as 1500ms

 

[Gionnirocket]

We, the clueless unwashed, might still be taught something.

So why not try it for yourself instead of believing me or them?

 

[voidedwarranty]

It's a different explanation... But is that what you experienced?
I haven't witnessed a millisecond of motor run_on after pedal stop with a setting as high as 1500ms

That would be motor wind down. Your run on would be your time of stop. The decay shouldn't be terribly perceivable of 1.5 seconds at a low power level anyways. Run on as I imagine is your motor still running at power before it begins the wind down.

You mentioned the stop Decay improving smoothness when you coast and start pedalling again. That is probably because you still have motor spinning even if it's barely noticeable.

This is how I am interpreting everything I have read over the past few days. My own field experiences thus far regarding the stop Decay cannot be regarded as accurate because I changed multiple settings at once. Forgive me but I am stages behind you. I am not at a point of incremental fine tuning just yet.

 

[tomjasz]

Why? I’ve run the same parameters for 7 years and thousands of miles on all versions of BBSxx series. I’m just just not personally on board with your fervor.

But I do suggest that most here aren’t able to really debate your choices. Or not interested. I think your experience in a discussion with even more experienced users would be interesting and enlightening. If only I cared.

I have learned to urge caution. And with good reason.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Why? I’ve run the same parameters for 7 years and thousands of miles on all versions of BBSxx series. I’m just just not personally on board with your fervor.

But I do suggest that most here aren’t able to really debate your choices. Or not interested. I think your experience in a discussion with even more experienced users would be interesting and enlightening. If only I cared.

I have learned to urge caution. And with good reason.

I get it... The world is flat and that works for you. I'm off to the far east for goodies

 

[Gionnirocket]

That would be motor wind down. Your run on would be your time of stop. The decay shouldn't be terribly perceivable of 1.5 seconds at a low power level anyways. Run on as I imagine is your motor still running at power before it begins the wind down.

You mentioned the stop Decay improving smoothness when you coast and start pedalling again. That is probably because you still have motor spinning even if it's barely noticeable.

This is how I am interpreting everything I have read over the past few days. My own field experiences thus far regarding the stop Decay cannot be regarded as accurate because I changed multiple settings at once. Forgive me but I am stages behind you. I am not at a point of incremental fine tuning just yet.

It takes time as these can be very personal.
I'm not exactly sure what's happening... But in the other thread I mention something very similar. It's that the motor doesn't wind down in between PAS sensor input... Resulting in smoothness and efficiency.
But go back and read the thread Thomas referred to... They're all talking run on and with settings below 50ms

 

[tomjasz]

The world is flat and that works for you.

Members across the globe agree!

I'm just not evangelizing Bafang tweaking. No rulz!

 

[voidedwarranty]

It takes time as these can be very personal.
I'm not exactly sure what's happening... But in the other thread I mention something very similar. It's that the motor doesn't wind down in between PAS sensor input... Resulting in smoothness and efficiency.
But go back and read the thread Thomas referred to... They're all talking run on and with settings below 50ms

They are also plotting graphs using dynos. 50ms is .05 of a second. Anyone who claims to be able to feel that while riding is blowing smoke up everyone's asses

 

[Gionnirocket]

Then there's this...
I posted the Stop Decay thread not to assert that I knew all that was going on but to ask for input and experiences from others and some collaboration to explore this further with different BBS's and rider needs.
I received two types of responses from those that cared to.
The Bafang Bible worshipers that did not try it for themselves but just condemned it.
The open minded who did try it and found similar results
Everyone is free to draw their own conclusions.

Funny side note @voidedwarranty... When you first replied we were talking about many various settings so I directed you to this thread as I thought it more appropriate and that it might help others with the same interests down the road... In the end we landed deep in Stop Decay