Another Frey Savannah Ultra - CC owner

[keithj69]

I love this bike and the programmable ultra. Same ride, 2 different tunes and a night and day difference. Still need to tweak which means I have to ride more. Win win

 

[smorgasbord]

@smorgasbord I have gone through all the parts of tuning the motor. I did a ride the other day with the basics and today with all the steps. What I noticed on my ride today was it was actually to easy to pedal and i did take a hit on the battery. I would like to tune it down some and have a bit more leg power.
I used the spreadsheet without changing the %, and I used your PAS settings that you mentioned later in the PAS thread when talking with Armourd.

My question is: I would like to change something in those settings so that I have a bit more leg power to move. Should I change the PAS levels lower according to the % chart you showed in the pas post first, or should i change torque setting at a lower %?

Also this is for a more battery efficiency thing. I am on mostly flat florida and the settings you have suggested is really really fun, but i am looking for range. Thanks

Some questions and thoughts:

• What is your lowest PAS setting?
• What PAS level are you riding at? Do you find yourself changing PAS levels a lot, and if so, under what circumstances?
• If you're riding at something other than Level1, simply choose a lower level to limit the motor power.
• If PAS Level1 isn't under 10%, then that's the first setting I would change.
• If Level1 is, say, 7%, and that's the level you're using most of the time, then you'll want to look at the Torque tab:
  • Do you feel the motor is too powerful at times? If so, can you identify what those circumstances are?
  • Does the assist feel just about right some of the time? If so, can you identify what those circumstances are??
  • Try to determine whether it's the bike's speed that matters or the torque you're applying regardless of speed that matters.
• For instance, if when pedaling at low speeds the bike is too powerful, but at high speeds it's just right, then try lowering MaxCur for a couple of the lower SPDXX columns (eg, SPD20, SPD40). SPD0 is for very low speeds so you usually want full power since that's where you're just getting going.
• If, OTOH, you feel that the "torque multiplier" is too much at low to moderate levels but good up hills when you're pedaling hard, and bike speed isn't the major determining factor, then you might try changing the Delta Voltage Table's settings. For instance, here's a shallower curve that will give less assistance then my previously posted curve:

This maxes out at 145% instead of 150% or 175%. You'll want to play with changing the F2, F3, and F4 values to see what works best for you. You could even put in 100% to see how if a linear mapping is what you want. If linear helps but it's still too much at low torques (again assuming that low PAS level setting) then we might need to look at an inverse mapping for you.

But, first thing is to see if the too much power is:

• Everywhere (means lower PAS level)
• Mostly only at certain speeds
• Mostly only at certain applied torque levels
• Something else?

 

[keithj69]

Would love to hear about your tuning experiences and what settings worked for you.

See the question i posed in the ultra overview post you have.

here

 

[smorgasbord]

See the question i posed in the ultra overview post you have.

Yeah, I moved my reply upthread here, thanks.

 

[keithj69]

Yeah, I moved my reply upthread here, thanks.

Cool thanks. Will dig in tomorrow. Feeling the after ride/ after yard work beers now.

quick read. I rode in eco pas1. only reason i changed was to play or catch up. Did not feel i needed to change pas other than the other excuses.
as far as pas1 in the lowest gear. On pavement it is almost right speed power wise. It could be slightly less, but manageable. On dirt, it is actually perfect. The dirt resistance helps.
The feeling i get on pavement is the bike is too responsive to the pedals. I rode mostly in eco pas1 and really did not need to change other than to play or to catch up to the other rider because he went speed demon and the person I was talking to next me, well, we missed him taking off.

The person I was talking to is my usual riding buddy so we have learned each others cadence. Today's ride was a "group ride" so my observations was based on that riding style. As I mentioned before I live by this trail and can repeat it over and over. So I will be tuning based mostly on this ride as it is a mix of flat, and some minor uphill.
I have a 9 speed that i changed gears according to the speed and riding circumstance.

 

[keithj69]

Slowly working on tweaking settings. Also got the Johnny Watts in so I need to get them mounted. Work is getting in the way.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Curious on your take of the new tires...

 

[keithj69]

Curious on your take of the new tires...

I'll work on swapping them out this weekend.

 

[keithj69]

Some questions and thoughts:

• What is your lowest PAS setting?
• What PAS level are you riding at? Do you find yourself changing PAS levels a lot, and if so, under what circumstances?
• If you're riding at something other than Level1, simply choose a lower level to limit the motor power.
• If PAS Level1 isn't under 10%, then that's the first setting I would change.
• If Level1 is, say, 7%, and that's the level you're using most of the time, then you'll want to look at the Torque tab:
  • Do you feel the motor is too powerful at times? If so, can you identify what those circumstances are?
  • Does the assist feel just about right some of the time? If so, can you identify what those circumstances are??
  • Try to determine whether it's the bike's speed that matters or the torque you're applying regardless of speed that matters.
• For instance, if when pedaling at low speeds the bike is too powerful, but at high speeds it's just right, then try lowering MaxCur for a couple of the lower SPDXX columns (eg, SPD20, SPD40). SPD0 is for very low speeds so you usually want full power since that's where you're just getting going.
• If, OTOH, you feel that the "torque multiplier" is too much at low to moderate levels but good up hills when you're pedaling hard, and bike speed isn't the major determining factor, then you might try changing the Delta Voltage Table's settings. For instance, here's a shallower curve that will give less assistance then my previously posted curve:

View attachment 155101

This maxes out at 145% instead of 150% or 175%. You'll want to play with changing the F2, F3, and F4 values to see what works best for you. You could even put in 100% to see how if a linear mapping is what you want. If linear helps but it's still too much at low torques (again assuming that low PAS level setting) then we might need to look at an inverse mapping for you.

But, first thing is to see if the too much power is:

• Everywhere (means lower PAS level)
• Mostly only at certain speeds
• Mostly only at certain applied torque levels
• Something else?

I have gone back through my settings and realized that trail side reprogramming can cause issues if you you swap between the eggrider screen and screenshots to do settings. When swapping anything you inputted (without a quick write) is gone when switching back to the eggrider.

At the house I have used used a second device to input into the my phone/eggrider connection the correct settings.. Things are better. Adjusted the delta settings properly now where the numbers make sense. Now playing with the spreadsheet and the % to dial things in better.
Curious, if doing all these tweaks, is there any real difference between eco/sport? I feel the 2 are the same now. I think i read somewhere to just use the sport/offroad setting to test. I have read so much, i could be wrong.

 

[smorgasbord]

I have gone back through my settings and realized that trail side reprogramming can cause issues if you you swap between the eggrider screen and screenshots to do settings. When swapping anything you inputted (without a quick write) is gone when switching back to the eggrider.

Yeah, Write/Save often when using EggRider.

At the house I have used used a second device to input into the my phone/eggrider connection the correct settings.. Things are better. Adjusted the delta settings properly now where the numbers make sense. Now playing with the spreadsheet and the % to dial things in better.
Curious, if doing all these tweaks, is there any real difference between eco/sport? I feel the 2 are the same now. I think i read somewhere to just use the sport/offroad setting to test. I have read so much, i could be wrong.

I had this question, too. The Mike/Frey guide insists that there is some hidden difference, but I couldn't sense any. If you're set to use 9 PAS levels, then you could try switching while riding to see if anything changes. Otherwise, Eco/Sport might (I haven't verified) change which 3 or which 5 levels you're using out of the 9. It'd be pretty easy to program 0 assist in some levels to find out which levels go with which setting, but I run all 9 so haven't bothered.

 

[keithj69]

Yeah, Write/Save often when using EggRider.


I had this question, too. The Mike/Frey guide insists that there is some hidden difference, but I couldn't sense any. If you're set to use 9 PAS levels, then you could try switching while riding to see if anything changes. Otherwise, Eco/Sport might (I haven't verified) change which 3 or which 5 levels you're using out of the 9. It'd be pretty easy to program 0 assist in some levels to find out which levels go with which setting, but I run all 9 so haven't bothered.

I did have minimal changes in swapping, but honestly, it was a short ride tonight and I didn't test long enough.

 

[keithj69]

I did a ride yesterday and things were ok. I ended up going back to the 175% and down recommendation for the delta settings and upped the pas values. Still tweaking. And more importantly learning how to ride a mid-drive. The right gear is the key. This Bafang middrive seems to like a high pedal rpm and I am not used to that coming from hub drive bikes.

 

[keithj69]

Curious on your take of the new tires...

Finally swapped out the tires yesterday for a ride today. Went out this morning to ride some hiking trails at a state park. It was a joy to ride. Only had one issue with sugar sand where I had to dismount and push my way out. Beyond that they felt comfortable and I did not feel like i was going to lose control. These trails are not technical at all.
I have ridden with them on pavement, but at 25 psi (todays ride psi) and not as roll resistant as the other tires. But I will pump them up for the normal rides to judge them properly.

 

[Gionnirocket]

So Gionni Watts to know how the new tires are
Pavement sound and resistance / Trail traction ?
What did it come with S. Moto X?

 

[keithj69]

I asked for the Moto x when I ordered. I need to get back to you on the pavement sound. Hopefully i can get a ride in after work tonight. Need to pump up the tires to a more pavement friendly pressure to figure out the sound/resistance.
Trail traction for me has been gravel/dirt roads and grassy/sandy paths. Only issue so far was some really deep sugar sand that did a nice job of stopping me. Only traction issues has been sand, any other stuff was no issue.
Things like single tracks I haven't tried yet. Still trying to decide on the surly bars. If I decide to keep them, i need to cut them before trying any mtb trails.

 

[keithj69]

Did a 20 mile ride this morning with the Johnny Watts set at 35psi on paved trails. The tires sound like the marathon's that came with the bike. I was expecting some sort of different sound, but there was none.
And as far as any rolling resistance, they rolled nice. I would get up to speed, stop pedaling and see if I noticed them slowing the bike down, but they didn't seem to add much resistance. Bike just coasted normally and it gradually would slowed down as expected and like the other set. I am sold on these tires.
Only things left to do to the bike is to get my riding position dialed in, cut the surly bars down some, play around with the suspension and tweak some motor settings (maybe).
Overall, I love this bike. No buyers remorse. I cannot wait for summer to end so I can get more non-heat stroke inducing riding in on the new trails I am finding.

 

[Tom@WashDC]

Did a 20 mile ride this morning with the Johnny Watts set at 35psi on paved trails. The tires sound like the marathon's that came with the bike. I was expecting some sort of different sound, but there was none.
And as far as any rolling resistance, they rolled nice. I would get up to speed, stop pedaling and see if I noticed them slowing the bike down, but they didn't seem to add much resistance. Bike just coasted normally and it gradually would slowed down as expected and like the other set. I am sold on these tires.
Only things left to do to the bike is to get my riding position dialed in, cut the surly bars down some, play around with the suspension and tweak some motor settings (maybe).
Overall, I love this bike. No buyers remorse. I cannot wait for summer to end so I can get more non-heat stroke inducing riding in on the new trails I am finding.

Florida must be rough rough riding in the summer. I was in Clearwater in May. Plenty hot for me.

 

[keithj69]

Florida must be rough rough riding in the summer. I was in Clearwater in May. Plenty got for me.

The closer to the coast you are, the nicer it is temp wise. I'm in Central Florida, north of Disney. With all the lakes around, it's the humidity that really gets you.
We headed out at 9 and it was 83 with a feels like 91 and humidity in the upper 70%. My Garmin reported the high of 97. But the bike was at rest in direct sun. We were done around 10:45.

 

[keithj69]

Did some other rides with the tires and no other group riders. There is a slight hum on the johhny watts and a slight slow down on an uphill, but with a bafang 620 ultra, meh. I still like these and the power of the bafang makes it a non issue.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Did some other rides with the tires and no other group riders. There is a slight hum on the johhny watts and a slight slow down on an uphill, but with a bafang 620 ultra, meh. I still like these and the power of the bafang makes it a non issue.

Everything has its compromises. .
I think the Moto X which are quiet and easy rolling would be dangerous for some of the detours we both seem to appreciate taking.
I'm currently riding Kenda Kwick Drumlin KS which are super quiet and roll easy but I better be paying attention when I venture off the paved path.