Alternative Display and Controller for NCM (DAS-KIT)

[PCeBiker]

I must have spent a dozen hours searching the internet for information on my motor and surfing around Ebay and AliExpress looking at controllers and displays. My head is still spinning. Lol

I realized that the picture and link to that controller I posted is NOT a KT controller.

But I did find this one on AliExpress which is a 25 amp sine wave KT controller with waterproof Julet connectors.



One from Ebay is a lot more money and I can't find a 25 amp version,..




I think that I want a 25 amp version, so that I can turn it down to about 18 amps to keep it from working too hard and getting hot.


I'm pretty sure that these are my display options and I think that I want the regular LCD3 version unless it's not as functional and easy to play with as your color LCD8H version?





Do you remember how you connected your 2 pin brake cutout switch (or switches) to the 3 pin KT brake switch connector?
(I assume that your Moscow has a 2 pin brake switch like my T1000?)

That's the only part of a KT install that I'm concerned about.
I don't want to replace my Tektro Hydraulic brakes.

 

[PCeBiker]

The only issue I've run into with the conversion is I can't get it to go over about 24 or 25mph, but that's been good enough for me so I haven't really looked into it much.

You may have reached the maximum RPM of the motor, so that's as fast as you can go?

Apparently Das-Kit hub motors are geared for torque which limits top end speed.

 

[jkvt]

Yeah, if you find a way to configure the individual PAS levels, that would be a huge win. They're sort of configurable, as a whole, by adjusting the max current which basically seems to compress or expand a power level shape curve... also by altering the overall assist strength (ie eco, normal, sport/power, or something like that).

But yeah pick the right display. The settings are all done there, but I imagine they are saved out on the controller. Not 100% on this though. Sounds like the setup might work for you though based on your needs. The whole thing is definitely more responsive than the stock. You get the "constant current/imitation torque" setting that it seems most people do the conversion for which is nice, if you're pedaling. But, you can also set it to work similarly to the stock controller in that each PAS seems to be tied to a set speed. That set speed seems to be a bit more variable than the stock setup, but it's more responsive. Again, nice if you are pedaling, not so useful if you don't plan to much.

 

[jkvt]

I didn't have to replace the brakes. I'll take a look in a bit and post back. I thought the brakes on the KT controller were still two pin and the throttle was 3. I can send you I bought on Alibaba if that helps. Not sure all the sellers are still selling the same stuff at this point but it could be useful.

 

[jkvt]

Here's some pictures that might help. The brake is two pin. What you might be thinking is the third pin is just a slot for the connector.

 

[PCeBiker]

I didn't have to replace the brakes. I'll take a look in a bit and post back. I thought the brakes on the KT controller were still two pin and the throttle was 3. I can send you I bought on Alibaba if that helps. Not sure all the sellers are still selling the same stuff at this point but it could be useful.

Thanks jk

I'm actually investigating this right now and I probed my brake switch to find that it is just an on/off switch.

All the KT kits (as well as all the Bafang stuff) seem to use a three pin HALL sensor plug for the brake cutoff switches as well as the throttle and PAS sensor (cadence sensor in my case).

This is what I'm finding for all the KT stuff,..

I think that I figured it out.
The kit that uses waterproof Julet connectors does use a yellow 3 pin Julet connector for the brake switch, but it is only using two of the pins.

These are the pictures of two identical KT controllers, one with Julet connectors and one with ordinary plugs,..




The ordinary plug version lists the brake switch input as a two pin input, but has two different plugs to use in case you have a 3 prong plug.

 

[PCeBiker]

Here's another picture of a different KT controller,..

 

[jkvt]

Got it. That makes sense. Yeah, because when I soldered the new connectors on I remember it only having two wires for the brake. For what it's worth this is what I ended up with:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832818572671.html

The controller and the 1-4 cable.

 

[PCeBiker]

Here's some pictures that might help.

Thanks, that helps a lot.
Now I know what my bike will look like with the KT Controller installed.
It's a bit bigger than the original.

Did you have to use the box?
The controllers I'm looking at appear to be built into a waterproof aluminum box.

The brake is two pin. What you might be thinking is the third pin is just a slot for the connector.

My Tektro brakes have some weird 2 pin Julet connector, so I'm going to have to cut and splice that wire.
I'll probably cut the wire off at the display so I can keep the plug.



This is the normal Julet Y-plug I bought thinking I could use it if I trimmed and shaved it down to fit, but even the pin spacing is different so I can't use it.

 

[PCeBiker]

The controller and the 1-4 cable.

The 1-4 cable has an 8 pin connector.

The 1-5 cable has a 9 pin connector with the extra pin to turn on the bike lights when you turn the displays backlight on.

The controller that supports lighting, has another plug coming out of it to plug the bike's lights into.

 

[jkvt]

I didn't have to use the box. I did as added protection and I felt it made it look a bit more finished. The box there fit the controller pretty well so it did not add to much bulk. The aluminum case is technically waterproof, but it's not potted so there is just a seal wedged between the box and the two lids. It made me a bit nervous to rely on that, and I didn't want to risk hitting the box on something, whether I was pulling the bike up over a higher curb or whatnot. That said, you're right it is bigger than the original. The aluminum box itself is. I think that's the only real downside to this conversion, but finding a way to bolt the controller down to where the original controller is, and routing as much of the wire internally, from that area, keeps it looking somewhat reasonable.

You've got the weird 2 pin brake connectors that I have. I did exactly what it sounds like you might be doing too... cut the connectors at the display. I made an adapter instead of messing around with the connector at the 1-4 wire or up by the brake. So one end connects to the existing brake connector, using the connector taken from the display and the other end connects to the 1-4 using a red julet connector I picked up on AliExpress.

 

[jkvt]

Yeah, fyi in case you haven't run into this yet, those light plugs only support very very low wattage lights. I forget the actual limit. So if you plug in something with any real brightness, it might fry part of the board. I instead used some of those vampire clips, or whatever they're called to splice into the 48v wires and got a light that would run off 48v. This is the 800 lumen version of what I have. I thought I had 1000, but maybe not:

E-BIKE LITE PRO DRIVE 800 SWITCH HIGH VOLT

With 800 lumens of crystal-clear illumination, the Lite Pro 800 Switch (High Volt) e-bike cycling light maximizes output with its enhanced Maximum Optical Reflection (MOR) lens. Compatible with higher-voltage e-bike inputs (12-48v) from top makers including Bosch, Shimano and Yamaha.

ride.lezyne.com

 

[PCeBiker]

But yeah pick the right display. The settings are all done there, but I imagine they are saved out on the controller. Not 100% on this though.

Fred sent me the manual for the display that I was thinking of, and it doesn't do much at all. It's only 4 pages long.

It doesn't allow me to turn down my controller.

I want to get a 25 amp controller and turn it down to about18 amps so that I shouldn't have to worry about stressing it or getting it too hot.
It's the exact same size as the 22 amp controller, and just a few dollars more.
The 17 amp controller is smaller, but I'd probably not want to turn that down at all.


So it looks like I'm going to get the same display as you, the LCD 8H.
(there's also a vertically mounted version, the LCD 8U.)



There is a version with a USB port, but I don't think I'd use it. I can just plug into my battery's USB if I need to.



There's also a newer version, but I don't like the swoopy 3D look.
I want to see a numerical readout of my Watts.




AliExpress doesn't show the button panel or the handlebar mount, but I assume that it comes with that?
I'm pretty sure the button panel is part of the display and wired directly into it?

 

[PCeBiker]

I didn't have to use the box. I did as added protection and I felt it made it look a bit more finished. The box there fit the controller pretty well so it did not add to much bulk.

Hmm,...
I'm not sure what I'm going to do?

I think that I might try to seal it up myself with silicone or something, then fashion up a metal bash guard of some sort?

I want to let the metal box breathe to dissipate heat.
I don't care too much about what it looks like, but I do want to protect it.

Worse case scenario is taking a direct hit and shorting the battery input starting a fire. I'm pretty sure my battery's BMS should prevent that though?

You've got the weird 2 pin brake connectors that I have. I did exactly what it sounds like you might be doing too... cut the connectors at the display.

Thanks, that's great news.
I know that this conversion can work for me then.

I made a similar connector to install a second throttle,..

I added a twist throttle and took apart my thumb throttle to replace the spring with a rubber washer so that it will stay where I set it.
Now I use the thumb throttle to set a cruise control throttle as a cruise control.

It works great (except when I hit it by accident once and almost launched my bike to a river. Lol)

The two throttles are hooked up in parallel and which ever throttle (or PAS setting) is set highest overrides the others.

 

[PCeBiker]

Yeah, fyi in case you haven't run into this yet, those light plugs only support very very low wattage lights.

I don't intend to ride at night (or when it's cold or wet even) but my bike does have a headlight that turns on with display (but not the rear light. I have turn that on manually) so I should be able to hook up those two lights to the light output?

I figure that if I change my mind and want to ride at night, I can add a better brighter headlight.

Thanks for the info and link, I was wondering if there was a 48 volt headlight available.
I was wondering what voltage my supplied headlight was running on but haven't gotten around to checking the input voltage yet.

Right now I only use my lights to be legal at night but I may want to actually be able to see something if I start riding at night. Lol

 

[jkvt]

If I remember correctly, the 25a didn't have the julet plugs and the 22a did? But yeah if the 25a has what you're looking for and it's not any bigger, definitely a why not in my book. I did the 22a and reduced the max output for the same reason. About the display, if you mean it doesn't have the same settings, I believe it might, but they are just listed in some other manual. The basic LCD8H manual is pretty useless too, but the link to the one I passed along in a previous message was to the more in depth one. The buttons come wired into the display.

As for the controller taking a hit, not too sure what the risks are. The battery does have a fuse but if you hit a capacitor that could be interesting. Either way I'd imagine you really have to take a bad hit in the perfect spot for it to cause an issue... if that even would be enough force. At which point you might have some bigger problems to deal with.

I was worried about heat at first. I used to feel around the box after riding the big with a lot of load and really didnt feel any heat... and that black box is pretty thin. Probably helps with the controller max current ramped down and I'm usually not hammering on it too much. Most of the time I'm using 100 to maybe 350w. Only spike to around 800 for short times, but I also let the bike slow down some on hills, and I'm pedaling too.

I like the double throttle with one stay put and the other letting you exceed if needed. Pretty cool way to sort of get cruise with the ability to push if you needed more.

 

[PCeBiker]

If I remember correctly, the 25a didn't have the julet plugs and the 22a did? But yeah if the 25a has what you're looking for and it's not any bigger, definitely a why not in my book.

I managed to find a waterproof 25 amp KT sine wave controller with lighting support and a 1-5 cable for $63.82



I also found this same controller for $72.18



And the matching cable for $24.09



I'm pretty sure that KT stands for Kunteng so I'm thinking that it is "The Real McCoy" with better components and build quality?
It might even be properly potted?
(which I assumes means that they dip it in a pot of water see if it's waterproof? Lol)
I might spend the extra $ and get that one?

I shouldn't need the cable if I use all my original wiring, but there's a good chance that I'll make a fricken mess and end up needing the cable. Lol

I already wasted $250 on a Das-Kit Off-road display that was a complete waste of money, so I don't want to cheap out now.

About the display, if you mean it doesn't have the same settings, I believe it might, but they are just listed in some other manual. The basic LCD8H manual is pretty useless too, but the link to the one I passed along in a previous message was to the more in depth one.

Ohhh, OK
I think that I'll get the same display as you've got for the same $ saving reason, and I've got the full "service manual" for it now. Thanks ☺

I read through that entire manual and I was a bit lost and confused by all the parameter settings.
My biggest concern is not knowing what motor is actually on my bike.
I believe it's a 750w 1000w peak motor that's just limited to 18 amps for Canada.
I have no idea what the parameters are and I don't want to have to open up my motor to count the magnets and gear teeth and spin the wheel to find out the gear ratio. Lol
But apparently the factory presets have worked for you, so I should be fine with the KT display/controller.

Apparently the Das-Kit motor is just a rebranded MXUS motor (or vice-versa, both from Germany) and I did manage to find an MXUS fat motor with a freewheel that appears to be like my motor but I haven't found any motor specs yet.

As for the controller taking a hit, not too sure what the risks are. The battery does have a fuse but if you hit a capacitor that could be interesting. Either way I'd imagine you really have to take a bad hit in the perfect spot for it to cause an issue... if that even would be enough force. At which point you might have some bigger problems to deal with.

Hmmm,..
I think what I might do is trim an inch or so off the hollow semiround down tube so I can at least raise the box up higher so it's less inclined to get hit on the bottom?
This is my bike now and the controller is covered in crap.



So the controller is kind of in a precarious spot for spray and gravel and such, but it's not hanging below the bottom bracket.

I was worried about heat at first. I used to feel around the box after riding the big with a lot of load and really didnt feel any heat... and that black box is pretty thin. Probably helps with the controller max current ramped down and I'm usually not hammering on it too much. Most of the time I'm using 100 to maybe 350w. Only spike to around 800 for short times, but I also let the bike slow down some on hills, and I'm pedaling too.

Yeah that's pretty much how I ride. (except I don't like to pedal. lol)
I might be over thinking the heat thing too much.

I like the double throttle with one stay put and the other letting you exceed if needed. Pretty cool way to sort of get cruise with the ability to push if you needed more.

I like how I can lock in a speed then ride no hands . That's fun. Lol

 

[Daffyh]

You may have reached the maximum RPM of the motor, so that's as fast as you can go?

Apparently Das-Kit hub motors are geared for torque which limits top end speed.

That would gel with my F1000 experience

 

[PCeBiker]

That would gel with my F1000 experience

You and I have the same motor, but I've got a bigger wheel so I should be able to go faster as long as I have enough power to get there.

Do you have any idea what that motor is, by the way?

I'd like to enter the motor parameters if I can find out what they are.

 

[Daffyh]

Fred sent me the manual for the display that I was thinking of, and it doesn't do much at all. It's only 4 pages long.

View attachment 144011

It doesn't allow me to turn down my controller.

I want to get a 25 amp controller and turn it down to about18 amps so that I shouldn't have to worry about stressing it or getting it too hot.
It's the exact same size as the 22 amp controller, and just a few dollars more.
The 17 amp controller is smaller, but I'd probably not want to turn that down at all.


So it looks like I'm going to get the same display as you, the LCD 8H.
(there's also a vertically mounted version, the LCD 8U.)

View attachment 144012

There is a version with a USB port, but I don't think I'd use it. I can just plug into my battery's USB if I need to.

View attachment 144013

There's also a newer version, but I don't like the swoopy 3D look.
I want to see a numerical readout of my Watts.


View attachment 144014

AliExpress doesn't show the button panel or the handlebar mount, but I assume that it comes with that?
I'm pretty sure the button panel is part of the display and wired directly into it?

If I turn the amps setting down on my bafang hub fatbike it does nothing. Don’t care just experimenting when I first got the bike.