How I bypassed the speed restriction on my NCM 500W/48V Moscow Plus 29er.

Hi

I am doing some experimenting with the NCM C7 display.
There's a German site where they've downloaded new settings to the display and overcome the speed limitations. I am not interested in that so much as some other experiments I am looking into. The german site has this image


Here's a link to the overall thread:

Kommunikation zwischen C7 Display und Motorkontroller NCM Venice+ Das-Kit

Moin, ich habe bereits im dem 'anderen' pedelec und E bike Forum meine Untersuchung und Ergebnisse veröffentlicht, hoffe aber hier zusätzlich noch weitere interessierte Leute zu erreichen. Zunächst einmal ein Dank an Arthus Dent der schon vor über einem Jahr damit angefangen hat und auf dessen...
www.pedelecforum.de

I've taken a stab at translating the hand written German notes but if anyone is a German speaker can they chime in with improved translations?

1 - Web - RX (Receive)
2 - Green - TX (Transmit)
3 - Yellow
4 - Blue - ???…becomes + (pos) when displayable??
5 - Red - Power (Pos)
6 - Purple - +5v when controller on
7 - Grey - Brakes (0 ohm ???)
8 - Black - Power (Neg)

This is for the 8 pin wire that is the primary connection to the C7 display.

For my needs I'm probably ok but if anyone has better wiring notes or can translate the German better I'd be grateful. My guess for 3 is that it's the throttle signal but the blue wire is interesting and the purple wire. I haven't tested it yet, but I am assuming wire #5 (red) is 48v and #6 (purple) is +5v to power the display
 
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My moscow came with an L-7 display? I´ve got no issues. I don´t need to go 28 mph. As it came the
bike does 22 mph WOT & 25 PAS. Go figure? Messing with it just voids the warranty. The bike is set up
a certain way by the Germans for a reason & they don´t want it tampered with. It´s the same deal with the
Tanaka PF 4000 on my gas bike. A lot of guys on the gas forum have messed with carbs & mufflers to
get higher performance which only damages the engine. My 2 Tanakas, still stock, are 10 years old &
run better than new after break-in. The same can be said of my stock set up for the Das Kit motor. At
3k+ mi, that motor is still getting stronger,(or maybe I am?) On my ride yesterday it was as if the pedals
were just rotary foot rests even uphill. (I had just fine tuned the derailleurs)
 
Bitmugger said:
Hi

I am doing some experimenting with the NCM C7 display.
There's a German site where they've downloaded new settings to the display and overcome the speed limitations. I am not interested in that so much as some other experiments I am looking into. The german site has this image


Here's a link to the overall thread:

Kommunikation zwischen C7 Display und Motorkontroller NCM Venice+ Das-Kit

Moin, ich habe bereits im dem 'anderen' pedelec und E bike Forum meine Untersuchung und Ergebnisse veröffentlicht, hoffe aber hier zusätzlich noch weitere interessierte Leute zu erreichen. Zunächst einmal ein Dank an Arthus Dent der schon vor über einem Jahr damit angefangen hat und auf dessen...
www.pedelecforum.de

I've taken a stab at translating the hand written German notes but if anyone is a German speaker can they chime in with improved translations?

1 - Web - RX (Receive)
2 - Green - TX (Transmit)
3 - Yellow
4 - Blue - ???…becomes + (pos) when displayable??
5 - Red - Power (Pos)
6 - Purple - +5v when controller on
7 - Grey - Brakes (0 ohm ???)
8 - Black - Power (Neg)

This is for the 8 pin wire that is the primary connection to the C7 display.

For my needs I'm probably ok but if anyone has better wiring notes or can translate the German better I'd be grateful. My guess for 3 is that it's the throttle signal but the blue wire is interesting and the purple wire. I haven't tested it yet, but I am assuming wire #5 (red) is 48v and #6 (purple) is +5v to power the display
Click to expand...
German is not my first language but I can read/understand a little.
1 - White - RX (Receive)
2 - Green - TX (Transmit)
3 - Yellow
4 - Blue -Activate signal becomes + (pos) when displayable??
5 - Red - Power (Pos)
6 - Purple - +5v when controller on
7 - Yellow - Brakes (0 ohm ???)
8 - Black - Power (Neg) (the crossed out list on the left says "Brake lever signal"
You had most of them right Bitmugger.
Good luck with your experiment and let us know how you go
 
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john peck said:
My moscow came with an L-7 display? I´ve got no issues. I don´t need to go 28 mph. As it came the
bike does 22 mph WOT & 25 PAS. Go figure? Messing with it just voids the warranty. The bike is set up
a certain way by the Germans for a reason & they don´t want it tampered with. It´s the same deal with the
Tanaka PF 4000 on my gas bike. A lot of guys on the gas forum have messed with carbs & mufflers to
get higher performance which only damages the engine. My 2 Tanakas, still stock, are 10 years old &
run better than new after break-in. The same can be said of my stock set up for the Das Kit motor. At
3k+ mi, that motor is still getting stronger,(or maybe I am?) On my ride yesterday it was as if the pedals
were just rotary foot rests even uphill. (I had just fine tuned the derailleurs)
Click to expand...
No one is saying they have 'issues' just some people like to experiment. Yours undoubtedly came with a 500 Watt hub motor whereas in a lot of other countries they can legally only be released with a maximum 250 Watt motor.
 
John, my project(s) are a little less speed oriented, I too am very happy with the speed of the stock display. I also don't want to void my warranty so instead of cutting any wires or opening any of the electronics I have a cable that I can disconnect the display and place this cable in between to access the signals without modifying the bike. I won't so much as cut a wire or drill a hole in the bike until a year has gone by.

That German site has all the code and info on bypassing the speed, but my interest is elsewhere. Project 1 is already complete, I added an alarm (I think I got that idea from you John, I used many of your ideas, lol) and wanted to make it a complete system so I have a on/off "ignition" key like a motorcycle or car would have plus the alarm wired into a box on the front of the bike. The alarm is inside the box out of the weather and the keys + alarm fob hang from my handlebars. I needed to intercept power from the bike to enable or disable it so my extension cable granted me access. The ignition key could be easily bypassed with 5 min but it's more for the quick step into a corner store, I can just turn off the bike, press the alarm and put the keys in my pocket. If I could get a frame lock to fit next I'd be in heaven; right now I have to run a small lock through the wheel too.

The second project is I am working on a little display that will mount beside the C7 and predict how much range I have left in KM (or miles) and show me the temperature and will also ideally alert me when my battery is around 50%. I need to intercept power for that to monitor the battery voltage and either use a GPS chip to get speed and distance travelled or intercept the info coming to the C7 display. The GPS would be more independent from the bike and I could open source the project so people could use it on any e-bike. Intercepting the display signal and reverse engineering the data is more in line with my skill set (as my username might suggest, lol) and would be a cheaper project to build for people if I open source it but only useful for NCM and bikes that use the L7 & C7 displays. (BTW Grin sells a cycle analyst computer already built that does all this and much more, my project is a fun project not a practical project)
 
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I'll start a new thread if I have much more to post on the wiring of the L7/C7 displays, but I will say that the wiring diagram posted in the german photo is a bit misleading. The part crossed out on the left is from the perspective of the female connector based on the diagram but the handwritten wiring chart and pinout is based on looking at the male connector so is the reverse pin order. Not a big deal and becomes obvious when you start checking any of the pinouts but confused me for a minute or two.

Pin 5 is the power signal I needed for my first project though.
 
Bitmugger said:
I'll start a new thread if I have much more to post on the wiring of the L7/C7 displays, but I will say that the wiring diagram posted in the german photo is a bit misleading. The part crossed out on the left is from the perspective of the female connector based on the diagram but the handwritten wiring chart and pinout is based on looking at the male connector so is the reverse pin order. Not a big deal and becomes obvious when you start checking any of the pinouts but confused me for a minute or two.

Pin 5 is the power signal I needed for my first project though.
Click to expand...
I for one would be quite interested in the details as your project(s) progress. I have the L7 display on my Amego Infinite. Especially the power switch and the "wattmeter".
 
Fred said:
I for one would be quite interested in the details as your project(s) progress. I have the L7 display on my Amego Infinite. Especially the power switch and the "wattmeter".
Click to expand...
I was hoping there would be some interest, lol. It helps keep me motivated. I'll post a thread on the power switch since it's done already and then start another when I my GPS module arrives for the 2nd project. I'll have a peek at the complexity of dealing with that sensor module and decide which route to go (intercept messages or get the data via GPS).
 
Bitmugger said:
I was hoping there would be some interest, lol. It helps keep me motivated. I'll post a thread on the power switch since it's done already and then start another when I my GPS module arrives for the 2nd project. I'll have a peek at the complexity of dealing with that sensor module and decide which route to go (intercept messages or get the data via GPS).
Click to expand...
I was just wondering how these hacks were going? You said the power switch was done. Any chance of sharing it?
 
As an experiment I temporarily replaced (bypassed) my Moscow Plus controller with a FSESC 4.12 50A controller based on the VESC programming format. This is a 60V max controller with tons of programmability. It will even analyze the motor connected to it to optimize controller parameters. This controller is used for everything from RC cars, electric skateboards, and 2500W ebikes. I'm using it in the "sensorless" mode, meaning it's not using the Hall hub sensors (even though the controller is capable of Hall sensing). Anyway, what I've learned is that my top speed can be pushed to about 25 MPH on flat ground with no pedaling. Max speed is ultimately limited by the DC battery voltage provided to the controller, which seems consistent with Leon Cyles claims with their uprated display. My top speed was done at ~53V battery voltage, just about max charge.

My biggest issue is that I have friends with 28 MPH ebikes and I can't keep up on long straights, so I was looking for more speed. I'm looking at ways to boost the FSESC controller voltage to around 60V to get the higher speed.

I also learned that the Reention battery has a self-resetting over current feature that kicks in around 25 amps. I had to reprogram the FSESC to keep under the limit.
 
blueskyca said:
As an experiment I temporarily replaced (bypassed) my Moscow Plus controller with a FSESC 4.12 50A controller based on the VESC programming format. This is a 60V max controller with tons of programmability. It will even analyze the motor connected to it to optimize controller parameters. This controller is used for everything from RC cars, electric skateboards, and 2500W ebikes. I'm using it in the "sensorless" mode, meaning it's not using the Hall hub sensors (even though the controller is capable of Hall sensing). Anyway, what I've learned is that my top speed can be pushed to about 25 MPH on flat ground with no pedaling. Max speed is ultimately limited by the DC battery voltage provided to the controller, which seems consistent with Leon Cyles claims with their uprated display. My top speed was done at ~53V battery voltage, just about max charge.

My biggest issue is that I have friends with 28 MPH ebikes and I can't keep up on long straights, so I was looking for more speed. I'm looking at ways to boost the FSESC controller voltage to around 60V to get the higher speed.

I also learned that the Reention battery has a self-resetting over current feature that kicks in around 25 amps. I had to reprogram the FSESC to keep under the limit.
Click to expand...
Interesting...can the existing C7 or L7 display be used with that controller or do you use a different display and just retain the motor from the original setup? Is this a practical setup for permanent use?
 
Fred said:
Interesting...can the existing C7 or L7 display be used with that controller or do you use a different display and just retain the motor from the original setup? Is this a practical setup for permanent use?
Click to expand...
The way I did it, my C7 display was still active, although It wasn't measuring power or speed, which is probably reported by the Moscow controller. And the brake lever interlocks as well as the cadence sensor is not hooked up - this is a throttle only mode. But, I think the Hall sensors could be left connected to the Moscow controller to measure speed and ODO functions. And it's possible to use both controllers (one at a time) where the FSESC is kicked in when you want the throttle speed burst. It wouldn't be too hard to implement a break-before-make setup to switch back and forth between controllers.
 
You could make a "Warwagon" out of these things if you wished( two motors will get you up a hill much quicker, you could add a 350 or so front motor( unrestricted) and you could easily go 28 on the level and still have the reliability of the stock setup( I have made a dual motor setup before and the results were worthwhile some hub motors have built in controllers,) or just buy a stock"honking" bike
Come on now you know you need an excuse to get another EBike( Like the Man said" you can't have too many Horses")
I am a good one to talk though, currently have 2 builds waiting on"pieces and parts" and a nice almost new"Milano" that I dare not touch.
 
FullyCharged said:
I'm going to test the correct speed with a gps app on my phone tomorrow sometime. Also planning to see if changing tire size will affect anything.
Click to expand...
I'm sure you know that... If you change the size of the actual tires, you'll need to change the information on the computer or it'll give you incorrect speed and distance.
 
Stormchaser said:
I was originally told by Magnum bikes that if I bought the C7 display that I could reach 28mph. After receiving it and it only added 1-2mph, I called them and was told there wasn't really a way to do it. Sucks because I spent an extra $100 for the display and another $80 to upgrade my tires that was made to handle 30mph for ebikes.
Click to expand...
I have a metro+, and my controller has been changed. I can go up to 28 kmh. Just go through the settings. I use 8088, but here are some others that might or might not work.
8108. 8306. 8088. 8018. 0579
---
Have you found this :

Menu Pages:
1 (*Assist Top Speed) 0.0 > 12.5 > 15.6 > 21.8 > 28.1
2 (Throttle Top Speed) 3.7 > 12.5 > 20.0
3 (Wheel Size) 20/175 > 20/195 > 20/200 > 26/175 > 26/195 > 26/210 > 27.5/200 > 27.5/225 > 28/150 > 29/225
4 (Trip Reset)
5 (48/36 Volts)
6 (Power) 1. Power > 2. Normal > 3. Eco

Tech support at Magnum suggests that adjusting #1 *Assist Top Speed will affect the amount of pedal assist throughout the 6 Pedal Assist Levels.
This is the parameter I have adjusted (down to 15.6) that tames the power and is a good match to my normal pedaling cadence. Once I adjusted it, I found I was using Pedal Assist 6 on a level road and gear shifting proved useful
 
Susan W said:
I have a metro+, and my controller has been changed. I can go up to 28 kmh. Just go through the settings. I use 8088, but here are some others that might or might not work.
8108. 8306. 8088. 8018. 0579
---
Have you found this :

Menu Pages:
1 (*Assist Top Speed) 0.0 > 12.5 > 15.6 > 21.8 > 28.1
2 (Throttle Top Speed) 3.7 > 12.5 > 20.0
3 (Wheel Size) 20/175 > 20/195 > 20/200 > 26/175 > 26/195 > 26/210 > 27.5/200 > 27.5/225 > 28/150 > 29/225
4 (Trip Reset)
5 (48/36 Volts)
6 (Power) 1. Power > 2. Normal > 3. Eco

Tech support at Magnum suggests that adjusting #1 *Assist Top Speed will affect the amount of pedal assist throughout the 6 Pedal Assist Levels.
This is the parameter I have adjusted (down to 15.6) that tames the power and is a good match to my normal pedaling cadence. Once I adjusted it, I found I was using Pedal Assist 6 on a level road and gear shifting proved useful
Click to expand...

Are you sure you have seperate settings for Assist Top Speed AND Throttle Top speed? My canadian bike seems to only have 1 setting
 
Bitmugger said:
Are you sure you have seperate settings for Assist Top Speed AND Throttle Top speed? My canadian bike seems to only have 1 setting
Click to expand...
I purchased a Ncm Moscow+ last Dec and the sub menu access code 8088 does not access the settings I needed which are max speed 45kph ...
Are there newer service access codes for the C7 display ?
 
I have a ET Cycle 1000 With a C7 display and I have pretty much no setting to change. I do have the tire size and 36/48 volt and thats pretty much it. My (power) is set on Power only and thats the only part I would like to be able to change. I would like to change it to Eco or Normal just to see how it reacts to it. I would like to tune it down bit so it does not take off so fast.

Bruce
 
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