Alternative Display and Controller for NCM (DAS-KIT)

[PCeBiker]

If I turn the amps setting down on my bafang hub fatbike it does nothing. Don’t care just experimenting when I first got the bike.

The way I understand it is that with the KT controller/display I can limit the maximum power output of my motor.
With my current display, I can see the current as a 6 segment bar graph that represent 2 amps per bar, so the meter maxes out at 12 amps and I apparently have 18 amps to work with, so another 6 bars that aren't visible.

If I could turn down the maximum power, I probably wouldn't feel it either.

It wouldn't shut right off like my Das-Kit Controller does when I hit 32 kph. I definitely that kick in. (or out I guess)

The good thing about the KT setup is that you can turn down a PAS setting (or hopefully cruise control setting and throttle setting) to as low as 100 Watts, so if I'm trying to go slow on a bush trail at say 10 kph, when the speed drops to 9 and the power kicks in, it only kicks in with 100 Watts, not 750 Watts like my Das-Kit so it won't launch my bike into the river. Lol

 

[PCeBiker]

The way I figure it, is that if I turn my maximum power of my new controller down from its 25 amp max to half, so about 13 amps, the only way that I would feel the difference is if I were riding into a strong headwind.
My bike wouldn't go as fast because 13 amps isn't enough to push the bike faster.

And apparently, our T1000's and F1000's do have a 750 Watt motor with a 1000 Watt peak, so I should have no problem feeding 25 amps to my motor.

 

[PCeBiker]

That would gel with my F1000 experience

You are still probably being limited by the Das-Kit maximum speed limit not the motor rpms.

A display from the US, should get you up to about 40 kph?
I think just a regular Das-Kit display too, because the speed limit in the US is 25 mph.

Unless there is some firmware in your Australian Das-Kit controller that limits speed somehow?

They are working pretty hard at slowing us down. Lol

 

[PCeBiker]

That would gel with my F1000 experience

If your current meter drops down from maximum when you hit 32 kph, then it's your speed limiter kicking in to slow you down.

Mine drops to around half unless I've got a headwind, and that's when I usually start pedaling to help out and save battery power.



Interestingly, when I first got my ebike, I went for a test drive and played around with the settings.
All I was allowed to adjust was wheel size and voltage (36 or 48).
I remember setting it to the smallest wheel size (20X1.75) to see if I could trick it into going faster, and it didn't work.
The bike was reading something like 22 kph and I could tell that it was about right and I was going slower not faster and I'm sure I'd be going even slower if I actually did have a 20X1.75 wheel on.

With the off-road display, when I select 20X1.75 the speedometer reads 23.1 kph but my actual speed is still about 32 kph, and all the wheel sizes felt like the same speed (I didn't have GPS) but the corresponding speed readings went up as I increased the wheel size.

I don't remember the speed reading for the 20x4.00 wheel size, but it less than 32 kph and seemed like it would be the correct speed if I actually had a 20X4.00 wheel.

That's why I think the controller has some firmware in it telling the controller that I have a T1000 with a 26X4.00 wheel?

You've got the F1000 with the off-road display and a 20X4.00 wheel and I'm sure that your speedometer reads 32 kph and you are actually going 32 kph.

So I think that you may be able to go faster with the US regular display where they are allowed to go 25 mph and have a throttle?

Unless you've got some firmware that tells your display that you're from Australia and you're not allowed to do that?

 

[Daffyh]

If your current meter drops down from maximum when you hit 32 kph, then it's your speed limiter kicking in to slow you down.

Mine drops to around half unless I've got a headwind, and that's when I usually start pedaling to help out and save battery power.



Interestingly, when I first got my ebike, I went for a test drive and played around with the settings.
All I was allowed to adjust was wheel size and voltage (36 or 48).
I remember setting it to the smallest wheel size (20X1.75) to see if I could trick it into going faster, and it didn't work.
The bike was reading something like 22 kph and I could tell that it was about right and I was going slower not faster and I'm sure I'd be going even slower if I actually did have a 20X1.75 wheel on.

With the off-road display, when I select 20X1.75 the speedometer reads 23.1 kph but my actual speed is still about 32 kph, and all the wheel sizes felt like the same speed (I didn't have GPS) but the corresponding speed readings went up as I increased the wheel size.

I don't remember the speed reading for the 20x4.00 wheel size, but it less than 32 kph and seemed like it would be the correct speed if I actually had a 20X4.00 wheel.

That's why I think the controller has some firmware in it telling the controller that I have a T1000 with a 26X4.00 wheel?

You've got the F1000 with the off-road display and a 20X4.00 wheel and I'm sure that your speedometer reads 32 kph and you are actually going 32 kph.

So I think that you may be able to go faster with the US regular display where they are allowed to go 25 mph and have a throttle?

Unless you've got some firmware that tells your display that you're from Australia and you're not allowed to do that?

Possible i have not gone that far in to it I know what controller it has it’s labelled CT6-FB which is a 22 amp job. All my speeds are GPS checked the old change the wheel diameter trick does not work as you have discovered. I tow my 2 small dogs around i wanted a torquey, low down motor which this bike has.
My FatBike is a Bafang G60 the display on that shows it putting out 1000w sometimes a bit more briefly and throttle works at any speed. I can also choose the wattage level for any given PAS, be it 1-3, 1-5 or 1-9. I could just about buy another bike the same to keep as a spare i love the customisation i can do through the display.

 

[PCeBiker]

Possible i have not gone that far in to it I know what controller it has it’s labelled CT6-FB which is a 22 amp job.

Oh OK
My controller is a CT5-I5



Or maybe it says CT5-15 ? Meaning 15 amps?
I thought all Et.Cycles had the CT5-I5?

I didn't really know anything about ebikes until I got my T1000 in November.
I do have an old piece of crap ebike that I didn't ride for over 2 years, but I quit driving in June so I put new tires and tubes on it and use it to get groceries now.

The thing weighs a ton, and is completely trashed, but it just keeps going. Lol
It's actually kinda fun to ride when I've got 50 pounds of groceries in the box.
It wobbles all over the road, and the brakes are useless. Lol

My FatBike is a Bafang G60 the display on that shows it putting out 1000w sometimes a bit more briefly and throttle works at any speed. I can also choose the wattage level for any given PAS, be it 1-3, 1-5 or 1-9.

Hopefully I can get my T1000 to be just as functional as your G60.

It does have a big 21 AH battery and probably a 750 Watt motor and I can go at least 45 km on a charge without pedaling, so it's got lots of potential.

I've got a 25 AH battery from Jenny on my wishlist to hopefully double my range.
I'm putting all the money I'm saving by not driving into my new T1000 hobby.
I'm starting with a KT upgrade.

 

[jkvt]

Oh one other thing to look for is check that the controller is sinewave, and not squarewave. Maybe that's what it was that I found, the 25 was square? I'm not totally sure, but sinewave is what I think you want.

Potted just means the electronic are covered in a silicone to keep water from damaging them. When you take off the Das Kit controller, you'll see the side adjacent to the downtube is completely exposed, but filled with silicone, so it's totally waterproof.

MXUS is what I understand as well, at least for the Moscow motor. So if yours is a bit different, you may need to experiment with the parameters some, mainly P1 and P2, I believe. The rest are preferences which you'll likely want to play around with to fit how you want everything to respond. What you see in the picture I sent has settings that were some out of the box, but a lot I changed so I'd dig into the manual a bit just to get an idea of the different options and what the thing can do. The chinese to english translation is not exactly perfect though...

If you live in a city that has a Leon Cycle it might be worth poking your head in and chatting with someone. If you tell them you love the bike but want to experiment some, and you find the right person, they may be useful if they've heard about what people have done. I've been in the Montreal store a few times and the guy I talked to was pretty friendly but I never talked to him about conversions.

One question though - what is it that you are looking to gain from the conversion? If it's the ability to cruise, better responsiveness, the ability to control output by watts (instead of PAS being tied to a target speed) and the ability to customize some settings that you can't on the stock version, you'll be happy. It's not miracle setup, but it's better. Just hoping expectations are not above reality

Funny you mention cutting the downtube because I was thinking the same thing when I worked on mine. Might be worth making sure you're happy with the setup first. That was my plan then I just said forget it and left it as is.

 

[PCeBiker]

Oh one other thing to look for is check that the controller is sinewave, and not squarewave. Maybe that's what it was that I found, the 25 was square? I'm not totally sure, but sinewave is what I think you want.

Yes, this is the one I'm thinking of.
48 Volt 25 Amp Water Proof Sinewave with a light output.
And it's only 48 volts, not dual volts which complicates the circuitry.

It's the only one that says "Kunteng" in the description, so I think KT stands for Kunteng and all the others are knockoffs?

But I'm not sure, so I'm going to try to find out because it's quite a bit more money with the cord being more expensive too.

Potted just means the electronic are covered in a silicone to keep water from damaging them. When you take off the Das Kit controller, you'll see the side adjacent to the downtube is completely exposed, but filled with silicone, so it's totally waterproof.

Oh OK.
The ECU on my (now defunct) car is potted. It's all gooey. Lol

MXUS is what I understand as well, at least for the Moscow motor. So if yours is a bit different, you may need to experiment with the parameters some, mainly P1 and P2, I believe. The rest are preferences which you'll likely want to play around with to fit how you want everything to respond. What you see in the picture I sent has settings that were some out of the box, but a lot I changed so I'd dig into the manual a bit just to get an idea of the different options and what the thing can do. The chinese to english translation is not exactly perfect though...

I just don't want to mess with anything that might damage something.
I had a computer in the 90's and got into the configuration settings and decided to click on the Intel processor icon to see what would happen (I had an AMD processor).
I fried the motherboard.
It was a brand new computer. Lol
(you're supposed to chose the processor with a jumper connector on the motherboard, not in the settings. That was a stupid design.)

If you live in a city that has a Leon Cycle it might be worth poking your head in and chatting with someone. If you tell them you love the bike but want to experiment some, and you find the right person, they may be useful if they've heard about what people have done. I've been in the Montreal store a few times and the guy I talked to was pretty friendly but I never talked to him about conversions.

No, I'm about 300 km from Amego in Toronto my T1000 won't make it. Lol
@Fred lives close to Amego. Maybe I'll give him my useless off-road display if he talks to them for me?
It is an upgrade over his H7 display.

One question though - what is it that you are looking to gain from the conversion? If it's the ability to cruise, better responsiveness, the ability to control output by watts (instead of PAS being tied to a target speed) and the ability to customize some settings that you can't on the stock version, you'll be happy.

Yeah, that's about it.

It's not miracle setup, but it's better. Just hoping expectations are not above reality

What I want to is be able to go off-roading and do some hill climbing like I used to do on my dirt bike.

I used to be climbing hills and lose momentum half way up and have to put my feet out and walk the bike up the hill while spinning my tire spitting out dirt.
I should be able to pull that off with my 1000W T1000 with my street tires, but not if the motor cuts out as soon as my feet come off the pedals.

Then I can creep around at 7 mph afterwards with complete control while my bike cools down and I conserve energy so I don't have to pedal on my way home.

Funny you mention cutting the downtube because I was thinking the same thing when I worked on mine. Might be worth making sure you're happy with the setup first. That was my plan then I just said forget it and left it as is.

Yeah I intend to rough it in and make sure it works first but I'm pretty confident now that everything will work fine now with all your help and advice.

I think that I'll cutting the tube because me bashing into something is bound to happen.
I used to wipe out all the time on my dirt bike. I used to stock up on brake and clutch levers. I'd break them off regularly. Lol

 

[PCeBiker]

Yup,.. It looks like this is the real deal.

 

[PCeBiker]

It's done.
$159.98 all in.

 

[jkvt]

Excellent! Sounds reasonable. KT is Kunteng. For what it's worth, most of those settings won't really screw up too much. There's the current limit you'll want to set at a reasonable value also the throttle may not work the way you want it to out of the box but there's a handful of settings for that, which is nice. Anyways, let me know how it goes!

 

[Tony54]

Hi you guys, just been reading your notes and find it fascinating.
My Moscow plus was limited to 25 k and awfully sluggish on pick up when on rocky, hilly trails. I went ahead and bought an off road display, about 150 pounds from new zealand and it made a big improvement on trails but still would like a bit more speed y torgue.
I have started to use alibaba y aliexpress with more confidence but like you both was confused when trying to fathom out the interconnectivity if items.
I hope you please keep updating with your conclusions but it looks like you have found items that will work together off the peg.
In my case I suspect my motor is a 500 watt motor so would be content with a 20 a controller.

 

[PCeBiker]

I hope you please keep updating with your conclusions but it looks like you have found items that will work together off the peg.

Here's a link to the controller that I bought.
I believe it is a potted controller so both the connectors and the controller itself are waterproof.

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mO9HReS

My controller should arrive today, so I can verify if it is waterproof.

Some controllers have support for lights, and some don't, but get a controller with waterproof connectors. (Julet/Higo connectors)


This is a link to the display l purchased.

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mLE6yz4

There are numerous choices of display to pick from, some have a USB port, some are color, some show voltage and current numerically some are vertical mount and some are horizontally mounted.
Some of the older, simpler displays don't allow you to enter parameter settings and are very simple. (you don't want that,.. they're ugly too)

The color display can be washed out by sunshine where it's difficult to read, the black and white display is easier to see.
I went with the color version so I have a numerical display of both Watts and Volts, but the Watt meter is smaller on the color display.

This is the cord that connects the instruments on your handlebars to the controller.
1T4 and an 1T5 for lightning support so you can turn your lights on and off with the display.

 

[PCeBiker]

In my case I suspect my motor is a 500 watt motor so would be content with a 20 a controller.

I'm 98% sure that your motor is a 500 Watt motor with a 750 Watt peak.

18 amps × 48 volts is 864 Watts.
My low voltage cutoff on my Reention Dorado battery is apparently 42 volts.

18 amps × 42 volts is 756 Watts.

My fully charged battery is 54.6 volts

18 amps × 54.6 volts is 983 Watts.


A 25 amp controller may overpower/overheat your motor and burn up your motor cable, but you can reduce the maximum power of the KT controller.

So you can select the maximum power to be,..
12.5 amps, 16.7 amps, 18.8 amps, 20.0 amps, 20.8 amps, 21.8 amps, 22.7 amps, or full power of 25 amps.

 

[Tony54]

I'm 98% sure that your motor is a 500 Watt motor with a 750 Watt peak.

18 amps × 48 volts is 864 Watts.
My low voltage cutoff on my Reention Dorado battery is apparently 42 volts.

18 amps × 42 volts is 756 Watts.

My fully charged battery is 54.6 volts

18 amps × 54.6 volts is 983 Watts.


A 25 amp controller may overpower/overheat your motor and burn up your motor cable, but you can reduce the maximum power of the KT controller.

View attachment 144533View attachment 144534


So you can select the maximum power to be,..
12.5 amps, 16.7 amps, 18.8 amps, 20.0 amps, 20.8 amps, 21.8 amps, 22.7 amps, or full power of 25 amps.

I'm 98% sure that your motor is a 500 Watt motor with a 750 Watt peak.

18 amps × 48 volts is 864 Watts.
My low voltage cutoff on my Reention Dorado battery is apparently 42 volts.

18 amps × 42 volts is 756 Watts.

My fully charged battery is 54.6 volts

18 amps × 54.6 volts is 983 Watts.


A 25 amp controller may overpower/overheat your motor and burn up your motor cable, but you can reduce the maximum power of the KT controller.

View attachment 144533View attachment 144534


So you can select the maximum power to be,..
12.5 amps, 16.7 amps, 18.8 amps, 20.0 amps, 20.8 amps, 21.8 amps, 22.7 amps, or full power of 25 amps.

Thanks ebikers,

 

[Tony54]

Thanks PCebiker,
You've been very helpful and I feel confident of going ahead with this modification.
One of my options was to fit a bafang bbs750 on my Moscow but you mod will be easier and 'fast' enough for me.
First I've got to take off my rear wheel, puncture and adjust the disc breaks with too much play in the levers. Never had the rear wheel off or adjusted hydraulic brakes so probably will by bad mouthing tomorrow and tonight reading how to do it on this ncm forum.
This again for your and jkvts efforts in this project.

 

[Sydneyjoey]

Hey guys I've got a f720 in Sydney Australia. I love the thing, it's my first ebike but ghees it's a good one and a sly beast. Atm I've got the offroad c7 display, what's my best options here?
Can i get 50kph out of her on the road? with the ct6-fb controller. The display only says 6 bars so 12 amps output, idk if that's the max output but the us controlles state 22 Amps. aus controller says 18 amps i think, so if the display only puts out 12amps and I came actually put out 18/22amps. Will that make it 10 amps quicker?
Going off 18 amps aus version x 48v battery = 864w is it safe to say its a 750w motor?
I can put up with the start stop of the motor, I actually like it like that due to riding it on the roads and light trails, I use my f720 to commute to work so it needs to be reliable, but Im thinking of changing the controller and display too kt.
Im in your boat pcebiker I just got the offroad kit and now I'm seeing these ebikes are capable of so much more.

 

[Daffyh]

Hey guys I've got a f720 in Sydney Australia. I love the thing, it's my first ebike but ghees it's a good one and a sly beast. Atm I've got the offroad c7 display, what's my best options here?
Can i get 50kph out of her on the road? with the ct6-fb controller. The display only says 6 bars so 12 amps output, idk if that's the max output but the us controlles state 22 Amps. aus controller says 18 amps i think, so if the display only puts out 12amps and I came actually put out 18/22amps. Will that make it 10 amps quicker?
Going off 18 amps aus version x 48v battery = 864w is it safe to say its a 750w motor?
I can put up with the start stop of the motor, I actually like it like that due to riding it on the roads and light trails, I use my f720 to commute to work so it needs to be reliable, but Im thinking of changing the controller and display too kt.
Im in your boat pcebiker I just got the offroad kit and now I'm seeing these ebikes are capable of so much more.

I have the F1000 and if you want 50 kph you bought the wrong bike it’s not a speed machine.As to the controller we know the base specs but exactly what amps it puts out at maximum we can surmise as I’m yet to see anything definitive. The T 1000 goes a bit faster but not by a lot pedalling is needed on F if you want to go past throttle speeds only.Personally I set the throttle to 20 kph as a quasi short term cruise control. I tow my 2 small dogs in trailer plus I am disabled and my legs are mostly useless I have hardly any strength or endurance. If you use the front rack take the front light off or it will just hit the rack when forks compress far enough.On the endless topic of charging I find anything under 50 volts for me it loses to much torque when towing. Standard fare as the battery drains but I always recharge when it’s between 50-51v.

 

[Sydneyjoey]

Thanks daffyh
does anyone know what the top speed is on a f series? Mine is 32kph
can i get 40kph if on a t series
If I use a f720 usa controller ct6-fb 48v22a and a usa c7 display, what will that do for my f720?

 

[PCeBiker]

My KT controller/display hasn't arrived yet so I can't say for sure, but I don't think the motor itself can't spin faster than about 40 km/hr.
I think it will downhill though?