A BBSHD Killer? Here comes the CYC Photon
- Thread starter m@Robertson
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Gionnirocket
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- Y. O.
!!!EXACTLY!!!
linklemming
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Perhaps a free year subscription of strava so it can be PROVEN and compared against others for EBR credibility.
PedalUma
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- Petaluma, CA
By the way, that is the E. European, Khrushchev, banging his shoe on the lectern at the UN. No you can't have it your way! My ex is Polish American and she follows his example. Putin somehow got her playbook and is now using it in Ukraine. Maybe he is taking lessons from her on how to become more evil. What about posting where and when you walk the dog? We Need Evidence!
PedalUma
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- Petaluma, CA
I have a bike in the shop. The owner described the symptoms of it randomly shutting down. I offered to install a new motor and work on full diagnostics latter. What it was is the display timing out after five minutes at power level Zero. He would put it at zero and coast down large hills or when he had a big tail wind. If you are not using any power it thinks no power is wanted.
m@Robertson
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I think the BBSHD gets around this by sensing wheel revs via the speed sensor. If the wheel is revolving the motor won't shut down. I've never tried setting PAS to zero... I mean... its an ebike. Turning the power clean off never occurred to me
PedalUma
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- Petaluma, CA
His bike does not have a speed sensor. He rode it 67 miles in the hills and wind and returned with two bars. He is of the rare breed of experienced ridder who likes to nurse a battery. It turns out I do need to replace the motor. In walk assist it shutters and makes a sound like a buzz saw. The controller and torque sensor are both intermittent. Water incursion? Or defective from the factory. My motors are all QC checked. It is under warranty. But that does not cover abuse like fording a river with it.
m@Robertson
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The buzzing sounds like a sawed-down internal nylon main gear grinding against the secondary when stress gets high? Just a guess.
PedalUma
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- Petaluma, CA
I agree. But the guy is super gentle and I have never had a blue gear fail. If walk assist works then the controller is good, but that is intermittent. The torque sensor is intermittent also. 3 out of 5 restarts the display works but nothing else. He has only had the bike 25-days. It is the woody Jones with a heavy duty 100Nm, 750W cargo motor with extra bearings. I wonder if there is rust all over the torque sensor and corrosion of internal connectors and bearings with damp white crystals growing in the housing.
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Gionnirocket
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- Y. O.
This brings up another question. . .
How is CYC for answering tech support and handling Warranty?
Another thing lacking from Bafang and TSD
How is CYC for answering tech support and handling Warranty?
Another thing lacking from Bafang and TSD
m@Robertson
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In my experience and everything I have read on their user group, they are real stars. They're known for warrantying stuff that isn't necessarily in warranty, and you can get all manner of replacement parts shipped out. The fly in the ointment is they are in the Far East and so nothing is an overnight shipment away. That may have changed recently as they are signing up dealers around the world who are carrying stock, but I doubt you can talk directly to Cyc like you can on the FB group and get parts shipped out to you on the spot.
Now... I would be remiss in not pointing out Cyc started selling drives that were clearly released before they were ready for market. They kept their reputation by having this responsive nature and liberal parts policy. But... it seems as if they have outgrown this public-beta-testers thing and matured past it. If you want to keep your ear to the ground and KNOW rather than having to trust some schmuck on the internet (me) to have a clue, join the Cyc Owners Group, lurk and soak in the user experiences.
Wouldn't it be great if there was a CyC North America entity? A local (west coast) warehouse for the quick turnaround of small parts, a few accessible tech support folks with the Cyc Asia engineers on speed dial/Zoom. The problem is that once the products become popular this model inevitably circumvents or diminishes the value of the needed dealer network ... a problem just about every successful off shore manufacturer has to deal with.
I think the apples to apples comparisons would be more in the $900 range but your point is still valid, is "better" engineering worth twice the price? I guess that totally depends on what you value. The old analogy - do you drive a Chevy or a BMW, and why?
Is size, fit and finish important? If so by how much?
Is the level of support valuable?
How much is your time valued at? (the assumption here would be that the Cyc might require less fiddling in some situations). How long did it take to build up solid experience with a competitive product (Bafang or TS)?
There are so many other variables that other folks might value ... or the Cyc could just end up sitting above that amount of being "too expensive" ... I don't know. Most folks will pay something more for the perceived additional value ... I guess the point is that imaginary amount is different for everyone.
Is size, fit and finish important? If so by how much?
Is the level of support valuable?
How much is your time valued at? (the assumption here would be that the Cyc might require less fiddling in some situations). How long did it take to build up solid experience with a competitive product (Bafang or TS)?
There are so many other variables that other folks might value ... or the Cyc could just end up sitting above that amount of being "too expensive" ... I don't know. Most folks will pay something more for the perceived additional value ... I guess the point is that imaginary amount is different for everyone.
tomjasz
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- Minnesnowta
I can easily (have) spend that or more on a Grin kit.
m@Robertson
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Yeah I have blown that much on a BBSHD, easy. Did I need an HD power level? No but long ago I stopped shopping around because having a BBSHD on every bike means I only need one pool of spare parts and they work for any bike in the fleet. So don't use the differences in performance as my deciding factor.
With those more or less low-level upgrades, you are now up to $780.
If instead you take that $650 and you add Lekkie Buzz Bars (to give yourself a forged crankarms with a left offset to properly line them up). Those are $145. A simple 42T Bling Ring? Another $145. You just hit $940. If instead you need a 40T ring and a motor cover so it fits? Thats $225 and you are now at $1020.
You don't need to do that stuff with a Cyc. Its all inclusive with quality bits, so when people compare costs to a Bafang motor I see apples and oranges. The decision should be based on things other than costs because the two - when equipped with quality parts - are essentially the same.
- $500 for the bare motor (and thats cheap!)
- $10 for a throttle
- $15 for a speed sensor
- $35 for a wiring harness
- $90 for a display
With those more or less low-level upgrades, you are now up to $780.
If instead you take that $650 and you add Lekkie Buzz Bars (to give yourself a forged crankarms with a left offset to properly line them up). Those are $145. A simple 42T Bling Ring? Another $145. You just hit $940. If instead you need a 40T ring and a motor cover so it fits? Thats $225 and you are now at $1020.
You don't need to do that stuff with a Cyc. Its all inclusive with quality bits, so when people compare costs to a Bafang motor I see apples and oranges. The decision should be based on things other than costs because the two - when equipped with quality parts - are essentially the same.
PedalUma
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- Petaluma, CA
Okay. But a 750W TS-B with 100Nm is delivered in 3 days for 333 total. They weigh 7-pounds. And folks like @tomjasz have domestic parts at super competitive pricing. Ask him about the price for a replacement display. I agree that price is not the only factor, but it is one factor in the overall mix. He also has stuff such as wheel magnets that work on any bike.
m@Robertson
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Well, right or wrong I am not a fan of the TSDZ2, so I don't consider it in any decision process. It seems to me it has always had a niche following but has never been able to grow past that. If I were in the market for BBS02-levels of power I'd do an '02. I can get BBS02 parts from... a thousand different vendors? The good stuff for the TSDZ2 is just one or two players selling motors with open sourced firmware that has been worked over, and if you want a display to work with it you get one from the same single vendor etc. If I am going to step away from that benefit of near-ubiquity, it needs to be for a good reason and I don't see one for that motor.
