A BBSHD Killer? Here comes the CYC Photon
- Thread starter m@Robertson
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m@Robertson
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My personal take is its not the motor's fault, but rather the audience has not yet decided where this motor fits into the ecosystem, and may be having bigger expectations for it than they should. It appears to be a much more advanced product than we've got in the BBS02, and in my view well worth the money as an alternative for that motor. It is more powerful by quite a margin as well, so you can push it into BBSHD territory, which it appears to be able to handle. Up to a point.
Maybe a way to look at this is to compare the Cyc X1 Pro to the X1 Stealth. Big brother and little brother. Both have a place but in different parts of the spectrum.
I saw a comment by the video maker above in the Cyc Owners Group on Facebook and he said if you have one of the BBSHDs restricted to 1000w - a 20a or even a 25a motor - then the Photon will be "more than on par" with the HD. At 30a the HD is more powerful. Also heavier and much bigger.
I don't think anything is going to kill anything. These motors should all coexist in different places on the build spectrum.
Maybe a way to look at this is to compare the Cyc X1 Pro to the X1 Stealth. Big brother and little brother. Both have a place but in different parts of the spectrum.
I saw a comment by the video maker above in the Cyc Owners Group on Facebook and he said if you have one of the BBSHDs restricted to 1000w - a 20a or even a 25a motor - then the Photon will be "more than on par" with the HD. At 30a the HD is more powerful. Also heavier and much bigger.
I don't think anything is going to kill anything. These motors should all coexist in different places on the build spectrum.
Gionnirocket
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Bbshd is heavier than the other BBS*
As for the amp rating 30 is typically the default on the HD.
25a is the default on the BBS02B, but I went into the settings and lowered it to 20a as that is more than adequate for my needs and adds a level of protection to the motor and controller
This making the Photon a good candidate for my needs. My concern is reliability in general, not over working it and whether or not the app interface is some buggy p o s
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JRA
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If you have the cable to hook it to a windows computer and access the program it is the second line item on the Basic page.
linklemming
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I am considering the photon as well although the last thing I need is another ebike.
$850 USD price tag is pretty hard to swallow though especially for the power.
My BBSHD is basically perfect for my needs and has stood up to all the abuse I have thrown at it, sure wish it had a torque sensor
Looking forward to the higher power version.
The last video posted I actually enjoyed all the way thru(thanks for sharing). Max temp of 70C seems reasonable for the grades and speeds encountered on that ride. Something like 90C+ would concern me. Looking forward to more videos from him
linklemming
Well-Known Member
Funny you should mention that!
This would be a great addition to my acoustic 2019 Santa Cruz Tallboy Carbon (motor wise) acoustic bike. I cant see any DIY battery mounts on the carbon frame that would stand up to the trails it would encounter so it would be a backpack battery (you can stick any battery in a backpack). The issue would be the battery connection (reliable yet quick disconnect). A XT60 would likely work. A rosenberger(used on Brose/Specialized) would be better but mucho $$
https://www.rosenberger.com/product/ropd/
If I hadnt recently purchased a 2022 Specialized Turbo Levo, I would have likely done this conversion to my Tallboy
Gionnirocket
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It uses the display connector. You unplug the display and use the USB adapter to your PC or Phone.
The phone does require an additional USB to Type C adapter
Speeed - Bafang BBS01/02 BBSHD - Apps on Google Play
Easy and clear programming tool for BAFANG BBS01 BBS02 BBSHD ebike motors
E-Bike Conversion – Software
It’s been a while since I wrote the posts about my electric bicycle conversion project. The bicycle runs fine so far and I finally finished rewriting the software that configures its controll…
penoff.me
m@Robertson
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What @Gionnirocket said. Nowadays, BBSHDs that are rated for 52v are locked down to 28a as well. Thats a fairly new thing. Supposedly they are also a bit gutless. I have one from California Ebike that I decided not to use once I heard that last part from people using them and wondering wtf was up. Its not just a loss of 2a of current.
To tell what yours is set for, you need to use one of the variety of interfaces that let you look into and change around the BBSHD's internal settings, what most people call 'programming' it. I use a Luna Black Box. An Eggrider will do it, as will the Penoff softweare coupled to one of the many cheap programming cables that plug into laptops. There is a web app for it too.
m@Robertson
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The way I look at it, the BBSxx crankarms are crap and have to be replaced. The Chainring is the same. So with today's insane prices, you are looking at perhaps (on a good day) $75 for the chainring and another $75 for the replacement crankarms. That assumes you do not use Lekkie parts. If you do the cost is quite a bit higher. So add $150 at minimum to your BBSHD buy-in. At Cali Ebike those prices work out to
A Bafang kit with no crankarms and no chainring, including the main bus cable, speed sensor, a display and a throttle. That comes out to $760 at Cali Ebike. Add $150 for the bargain versions of chainring and crankarms and you are now over and above the cost of a BBSHD kit at $910. Go Lekkie and you are WAY over. The thing about Cyc kits is they give you everything whereas with Bafang stuff you get nickel and dimed.
I do better than the above pricing by buying bare motors from Luna for $100 less, but I am still above the cost of a Photon when I add in the fancy motor cover that lets me put on a 40T Lekkie ring. My Shimano crankarms left over on a shelf in my workshop on my last build at least kept me away from the $150 Buzz Bars.
No but thats what I had to do with my Cyc X1 motor.
Been there and done that. XT90 and a janitor's keyring thing to let the cable ride close to your body yet extend and retract automatically as you ride and maybe stand up on the pedals and sit back down again. Use a hardshell pack in case you go flying, the battery doesn't take any kind of an impact. Wrote the whole thing up here.
A Backpack Ebike Battery… Are You Insane?!?
If all I did was write internet posts, I’d still hate this idea. But circumstances made me try one. I knew almost immediately how wrong I had been.
talesontwowheels.com
Gionnirocket
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Ok... But if we're really in the neighborhood of the BBS02B... then the weight should be compared to 9.5lbs
linklemming
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I added up the cost for my latest BBSHD buildThe way I look at it, the BBSxx crankarms are crap and have to be replaced. The Chainring is the same. So with today's insane prices, you are looking at perhaps (on a good day) $75 for the chainring and another $75 for the replacement crankarms. That assumes you do not use Lekkie parts. If you do the cost is quite a bit higher. So add $150 at minimum to your BBSHD buy-in. At Cali Ebike those prices work out to
A Bafang kit with no crankarms and no chainring, including the main bus cable, speed sensor, a display and a throttle. That comes out to $760 at Cali Ebike. Add $150 for the bargain versions of chainring and crankarms and you are now over and above the cost of a BBSHD kit at $910. Go Lekkie and you are WAY over. The thing about Cyc kits is they give you everything whereas with Bafang stuff you get nickel and dimed.
I do better than the above pricing by buying bare motors from Luna for $100 less, but I am still above the cost of a Photon when I add in the fancy motor cover that lets me put on a 40T Lekkie ring. My Shimano crankarms left over on a shelf in my workshop on my last build at least kept me away from the $150 Buzz Bars.
No but thats what I had to do with my Cyc X1 motor.
Been there and done that. XT90 and a janitor's keyring thing to let the cable ride close to your body yet extend and retract automatically as you ride and maybe stand up on the pedals and sit back down again. Use a hardshell pack in case you go flying, the battery doesn't take any kind of an impact. Wrote the whole thing up here.
A Backpack Ebike Battery… Are You Insane?!?
If all I did was write internet posts, I’d still hate this idea. But circumstances made me try one. I knew almost immediately how wrong I had been.
$520 Luna Bare Motor
$30 stock crankarms (seem to work for me)
$90 eggrider display (other displays are close in price)
$16 stabilizer bar (Full suspension, I just prefer to use these)
$145 Lekkie BlingRing 42t
Total $809
Thanks for the link to the backpack battery, food for thought
UpCollinUP
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I have 60mi on it so far, I'll post more info once I hit 100. So far it has been perfect.
tomjasz
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What other mid-drive has the power, parts stream, support, and proven performance? And with no sarcasm intended our Grin motors and parts surely aren't on a budget?
My BBSHD kit was $1500 but that included the big battery, and the upgraded display and smart charger. I messed up the threads on one of the supplied crank arms so I used one of my old ones. Back then I got the stock crank for free but they charge for it now. 2000 miles later it still is doing its job.
linklemming
Well-Known Member
No arguments on the benefits of the BBSHD, so easy to make a clean 36mph capable bike....I love mine. If I could have only 1 DIY bike, it would be equipped with a BBSHD.What other mid-drive has the power, parts stream, support, and proven performance? And with no sarcasm intended our Grin motors and parts surely aren't on a budget?
Yeah, in the scheme of things, I definately spend more on my Grin Stuff but usually dont do it all at once and the high shipping cost means I try not to think about it.
I think my thoughts are more centered around the lower power levels for $850 than anything else.
m@Robertson
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Yeah but the waters are a bit muddy there. The Photon is not a straight-across comparison with a BBS02 as its more powerful - when unlocked. Even if it wasn't thats still a 2.5 lb weight loss.
Regardless its just a curiosity to me. Want to see if they change the cable exit in a future generation as that doesn't seem like such a great thing as-is. Livable for something like a Bullitt but bad on a conventional frame.
Gionnirocket
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Well c'mon good man... make up your damn mind!!!
When someone compares it to the HD... you say well it's more like an 02
Then when compared to the 02...you want to bring it back to the HD.
As for the 2.5lbs...that's negligible when considering the mass weight of rider and bike. I mean I can drop 2 lbs from the mass just by riding after a bowel movement
To me the more realistic comparison should be made with the TSDZ2
So again the interest for me is the built by manufacturer to be tuned by the end user.
Not the end user hacks being done with the BBS* and TSDZ2
@PedalUma you're a TSDZ2'r.
Wouldn't it be nice to tune without having to fudge wheel size.. etc...
tomjasz
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A few years ago I found a TTL female to Higo adapter to use a Grin TTL-USB cable. Being 3 meters long is very convenient for me. I hate juggling my notebook around on a 12-18" cable. Sadly they were expensive and now unobtanium. If anyone finds a source for budget priced small order Higo connectors, please share?It uses the display connector. You unplug the display and use the USB adapter to your PC or Phone.
The phone does require an additional USB to Type C adapter
Speeed - Bafang BBS01/02 BBSHD - Apps on Google Play
Easy and clear programming tool for BAFANG BBS01 BBS02 BBSHD ebike motorsplay.google.com
E-Bike Conversion – Software
It’s been a while since I wrote the posts about my electric bicycle conversion project. The bicycle runs fine so far and I finally finished rewriting the software that configures its controll…
