A BBSHD Killer? Here comes the CYC Photon

[PedalUma]

without having to fudge

When I do the TS with a throttle, I don't fudge. It requires a wheel magnet to work. It also requires a brick of a display called the VLCD-5, 8-pin. You can do a 48V, 750W cargo motor. Playing it straight adds some lag but nothing as bad as a Bafang mid-drive. These motors have 90Nm. I am able to ship anywhere in the US within 4-days. From my experience about 100Nm is threshold when you start having big time drive train issues. Stuff like an M620 just kills drive trains and rear hubs. Thanks for asking.

 

[Gionnirocket]

When I do the TS with a throttle, I don't fudge. It requires a wheel magnet to work. It also requires a brick of a display called the VLCD-5, 8-pin. You can do a 48V, 750W cargo motor. Playing it straight adds some lag but nothing as bad as a Bafang mid-drive. These motors have 90Nm. I am able to ship anywhere in the US within 4-days. From my experience about 100Nm is threshold when you start having big time drive train issues. Stuff like an M620 just kills drive trains and rear hubs. Thanks for asking.

I'm talking more to the TSDZ2B with Open Source Firmware and display... Why doesn't something similar come straight from the manufacturer. Same goes for Bafang... but if you have lag with a Bafang, you're not programming it optimally. I've actually gone in the other direction to remove some of the the instant heavy acceleration.

 

[PedalUma]

TSDZ2B

The factory TSDZ2B with V5.0 firmware is very nice. The display can be used to set some parameters in the controller. You can set things such as speed limit, wheel diameter, and max amps. Open source firmware voids the warranty and is available on the internet, but who knows what else you are downloading with it when it is free.

 

[Gionnirocket]

The factory TSDZ2B with V5.0 firmware is very nice. The display can be used to set some parameters in the controller. You can set things such as speed limit, wheel diameter, and max amps. Open source firmware voids the warranty and is available on the internet, but who knows what else you are downloading with it when it is free.

That is exactly the point I'm trying to make. These motors should be tunable to some degree without having to revert to hacks. I don't consider wheel size and such as tuning... that's just inputting base parameters.
Hopefully CYC allows for manufacturer supported tuning.

 

[tomjasz]

When I do the TS with a throttle, I don't fudge. It requires a wheel magnet to work. It also requires a brick of a display called the VLCD-5, 8-pin. You can do a 48V, 750W cargo motor. Playing it straight adds some lag but nothing as bad as a Bafang mid-drive. These motors have 90Nm. I am able to ship anywhere in the US within 4-days. From my experience about 100Nm is threshold when you start having big time drive train issues. Stuff like an M620 just kills drive trains and rear hubs. Thanks for asking.

Interesting. I have the exact opposite experience. Easy programming of the BBSxx series give me a far and away superior throttle. Enough of a difference for me to gift the build on a new frame, updated saddle, custom pedals, and a strong steel center stand to and old fella living tough on $600/month. Life changing for him.

That said, your torque tuned rides and leaving the throttle off makes for a superior alternative to Bosch and their Ilk. The right to repair and ownership will be the factors to leave my out of those eBikes. Not that I’m criticizing them or their owners. Starting out when there were few eBikes available and more of less being forced to build means I have the skill and tools. For me to be limited in self reliance kills the interest. I’m thrilled to read the market is growing and we’ll see an increase in bike shops and riders.

 

[PedalUma]

Bosch and their Ilk

I like the minimalist approach. As mentioned the 6-pin displays have a wire that is less than the diameter of 4mm hex key. Sometimes I go thru frame. But, no cutout levers and no throttle support with the 6-pins. The 8-pin motors and displays have a much thicker wire, say 7.5mm with a huge 10mm connector, but do support levers and throttles. Usually the best routing with the 8-pin is up the back of the seat tube and under the top tube to the display. With the six-pin builds I don't install the wheel magnet or speed pickup = Less wires & better feel. I set speed to 45 and wheel diameter to about 13 inches, even if it is a 29er. I can get motors to folks for about 333 total, delivered and it takes less than four days to arrive. That is for a 100Nm 'B'.

 

[linklemming]

 

[PedalUma]

I would rather ride a bike.

 

[PDoz]

I would rather ride a bike.

You do realize it's one of the more bike like mid drive options? Reasonably light, torque sensing and reasonably quiet. Nobody forces you to use the throttle.

 

[linklemming]

I would rather ride a bike.

Its really more of a demo of worst case conditions for his ride (throttle only) vs temps. Thats what I got out of it

 

[Gionnirocket]

Its really more of a demo of worst case conditions for his ride (throttle only) vs temps. Thats what I got out of it

Thanks for the breakdown... I was afraid to click the link and be trapped for 20 minutes

It did get hot... but it was being rode hard with no help.
That said I wonder if the heat sink is set up properly or if the temp is accurate?
The inaccurate wh is telling.. What else isn't.
It sounds as he really hasn't tweaked any setting so that can be the problem there... and my point of interest in this.

 

[Deacon Blues]

I've been wanting a light e-road bike for a while, but have been put off by the high prices. I've also been itching to build my own e-bike, and the Proton may be an excellent choice for me.

 

[m@Robertson]

Well c'mon good man... make up your damn mind!!!
When someone compares it to the HD... you say well it's more like an 02
Then when compared to the 02...you want to bring it back to the HD.

Well, besides evolving my opinion over the course of the thread (see: the thread title, which is where my head was at then), its now pretty clear the people actually riding the thing put it squarely in the middle between the two motors, and its a better fit if you are comparing it to an '02 because it just does not measure up to an HD in terms of torque. So for me, I'll wait for the Proton to follow up after the Photon and see what it turns into.

But I have already seen people do Photons on Bullitts and on that bike it seems like a real winner in terms of how it gets around BBSxx issues fitting to that frame, among other things. But that is a very narrow niche that not a lot of people here will care about.

I have no direct experience with the TSDZ2 so not something I can say anything useful on. I did see not too long ago a seller advertising what purported to be a gen2 TSDZ that looked an awful lot like a BBS02, but I can't find any other mention of it now so not sure its for real.

 

[tomjasz]

You do realize it's one of the more bike like mid drive options? Reasonably light, torque sensing and reasonably quiet. Nobody forces you to use the throttle.

Don’t mistake personal preference for criticism of others choices.

 

[kevinmccune]

If the modular design proves to be durable having torque sensing and ease of supported programmability can make this a winner.
Was considering a TSDZ2 build this winter so I wonder when "coming soon" actually is?

OTH, the wallet speaks- don't throw the TDZ idea out just yet, just this morning I actually considered trying to find a trek or other mid end bike for a build after giving up on my reverse trike( I am not going to a machine shop to have axles attached)

 

[Gionnirocket]

OTH, the wallet speaks- don't throw the TDZ idea out just yet, just this morning I actually considered trying to find a trek or other mid end bike for a build after giving up on my reverse trike( I am not going to a machine shop to have axles attached)

I haven't and the next build will definitely have torque sensing. I like the TDZ with the open source firmware but would prefer a manufacture supported programming interface

 

[PedalUma]

programming interface

I am with you. But seriously the Version 5 is very nice just the way it is. And you won't need to assemble your own USB to speed sensor dongle. Or download software from Russia.

 

[Gionnirocket]

I am with you. But seriously the Version 5 is very nice just the way it is. And you won't need to assemble your own USB to speed sensor dongle. Or download software from Russia.
View attachment 150990

I think we want different things out of our bicycle.....
And I'm sure V5 is great for most, but I appreciate being able to give it the personal touch.
When I hear things like not using the speed sensor or setting the incorrect wheel size I get disinterested. I just want things to be fully functional and supported. And sorry but that 5 pin display is from pre 2000. I also appreciate break cut outs as I sometimes use it to shift multiple gears and the added safety.
I have my BBS02B tweaked near perfect but torque sensing has my interest. The Open Firmware on the TDZ is supported by sellers and pre-installed so no worries about Russia/China downloads... and making up a cable is just another reason to practice soldering.
There's always a bright side

 

[PedalUma]

Here is the USB programing dongle hooked to a TS controller thru the speed sensor. @tomjasz has a few spare speed sensors you can chop to assemble a USB programing kit like this. He also has about 30-pounds of other relevant stuff. PM him.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Received this email from CYC... read the bottom line.
As wut I talkin 'bout!

I want the Burger King experience!