A BBSHD Killer? Here comes the CYC Photon

[m@Robertson]

This motor was cryptically announced back in July with some simple animation here.

Photon | cycmotor

The Photon is designed with subtlety to ensure low noise and smooth performance in a compact body. Refined for adventure, you can experience torque sensing like never before.

www.cycmotor.com

Looks like it has reached the production phase, and will be released sometime late next month. A pretty detailed walk-thru was just posted a couple days ago.

They fudge the BBSHD project costs of course. Real costs of a motor, plus crankarms plus chainring are more like $850 minus tax and shipping. But this motor at $950 will include benefits that justify the price if it all pans out. Say goodbye to the chain alignment issue, for one. Half the weight for another. Quieter than even the BBSHD. Torque plus cadence sensing is something I think CYC has pioneered and it has promise. Torque is used for the initial startup from a stop and cadence is used at easy cruise, which gives the benefits of both methods. I've long thought this hybrid is what is going to eventually rule the marketplace. We'll see.

The motor has a lot to prove so we'll see if it pans out.

 

[m@Robertson]

Funny coincidence: I got an email from Matt Bzura at Bicycle Motor Works today about a battery he is building for me. He pointed me to a Facebook post on his page today with a 'first ride' video of this same motor. Dead silent.

He told me this is more in league with a BBS02 rather than a BBSHD - certainly the motor's torque numbers bear that out. On the FB discussion, he noted he saw 1700w output numbers on flat straights, which puts it in the ballpark of a BBSHD, although the HD can do that on slow climbs too (edit: Apparently the factory controller can peak at 40 amps).

Big thing for me is the 14 lb BBSHD versus I think 7 lbs for the Photon. Thats enough to matter.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2777795095691052

 

[Deacon Blues]

In regards to the video, I can relate to falling off. Been there, done that.....many times.

This is a motor I may purchase in the near future for a bike I plan on building for my wife, who likes her Bulls, with the Bosch gen 4 motor, but really wants a throttle.

 

[EMGX]

It appears that they addressed the two biggest issues that, in my experience, TSDZ2 has - chainline and space between bottom bracket and motor housing. More than twice the price but may be worth it.
The first ride video wasn't encouraging but I'll be following to see how it pans out.

 

[AHicks]

Following...

 

[Jimmy666]

Interesting kit for sure. I wonder if you could run this as a single speed like you can a Bbshd.

 

[JRA]

The M620 has torque and cadence sensing. You can dial it in via the programming cable.

 

[tomjasz]

M620

But Bafang...

 

[tomjasz]

Nice idea. I’m rooting for a success. That said we won’t see it replace the X1 Gen 3. that kit and options from Lighteningrods are just real beasts and sound isn’t a real concern for those Gen 3 builds running “3000W & 5000W”.
But as a BBSHD buster it’d be sweet to have a system with the integration and options promised. My eyes will be on a tear down and parts stream. One advantage BBSxx series has is a rather large market share and issues are pretty quickly driven to the surface. I say it all the time. It’s been a 7 year love, hate relationship with Bafang BBSxx series. Never understanding the horrible support of their bread and butter shops and users.

Watching and hoping for a rousing success!

EDIT EggRider killer too! Maybe I am building momma’s new bike…

 

[AHicks]

The M620 has torque and cadence sensing. You can dial it in via the programming cable.

IF it's UART based.....

 

[Gionnirocket]

The M620 has torque and cadence sensing. You can dial it in via the programming cable.

True but irrelevant as these are add on motors to a standard bottom bracket DIY build

 

[Gionnirocket]

Funny coincidence: I got an email from Matt Bzura at Bicycle Motor Works today about a battery he is building for me. He pointed me to a Facebook post on his page today with a 'first ride' video of this same motor. Dead silent.

He told me this is more in league with a BBS02 rather than a BBSHD - certainly the motor's torque numbers bear that out. On the FB discussion, he noted he saw 1700w output numbers on flat straights, which puts it in the ballpark of a BBSHD, although the HD can do that on slow climbs too (edit: Apparently the factory controller can peak at 40 amps).

Big thing for me is the 14 lb BBSHD versus I think 7 lbs for the Photon. Thats enough to matter.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2777795095691052

Jeez.... just another not aware enough to realize that they shouldn't bother posting videos.
He's winded on a hill that the BBSO2B would easily climb in lower PAS or fly up in higher. And I'm sure he could read his cadence or any other info while in motion on that minimalist display.
The drop at the end was the only part with any value and even that was minimalist_ly funny.

 

[Gionnirocket]

If the modular design proves to be durable having torque sensing and ease of supported programmability can make this a winner.
Was considering a TSDZ2 build this winter so I wonder when "coming soon" actually is?

 

[m@Robertson]

I wonder when "coming soon" actually is?

Reports on their FB group state end of November (this month) 2022.

 

[Jimmy666]

new video I found on the tube about the Photon

 

[tomjasz]

new video I found on the tube about the Photon

Interesting but premature conclusions. I’m interested but not on the bleeding edge. Been there with Bafang.
What’s the CYC reputation for parts stream and warranty support?

 

[Jimmy666]

Interesting but premature conclusions. I’m interested but not on the bleeding edge. Been there with Bafang.
What’s the CYC reputation for parts stream and warranty support?

I am going to wait a while before even thinking about this kit but it does look promising.

 

[Gionnirocket]

new video I found on the tube about the Photon

I find wet_dream videos useless.
The guy practically creamed himself opening the box...how can you trust anything he says.

 

[m@Robertson]

Interesting but premature conclusions. I’m interested but not on the bleeding edge. Been there with Bafang.
What’s the CYC reputation for parts stream and warranty support?

Agreed. However, owning one and being a longtime member of the FB group, I can say they are unparallel'd in customer support. They are the quintessential small company who listens closely to their users and iterate their product based on feedback. They also are stellar for warranty and out of warranty support. Its not unusual for them to send replacement parts for free when notified of failures without discussion of warranty or blame.

With that said, as a small rising company they also gained an early rep for releasing things too early. Their products aim high but early on were not really production-ready. More like release candidates. Now, as I said above, they also stepped up across the board when users had issues. So they gained back a lot of good will that otherwise would have been lost forever. But still, I would not necessarily choose to buy into a v1.0 product of theirs.

With that said, they are now up to v3.0 of the Stealth and Pro motors. I think they are well past the teething problems that v1.0 of the Pro experienced. And its very likely they have finally found a controller solution that everyone can live with long term (for mine, I went with a custom aftermarket BAC unit out of the gate and didn't even bother trying to use the factory controller after seeing the issues others were having).

CYC has also been known for innovation. Like I said they aim high. This new Photon looks to be aimed squarely at solving issues Bafang could never be bothered to address. I wouldn't jump on v1.0, but I would join the user group and watch for a year and see what happens. It'll turn out well in the end I expect.

 

[Jimmy666]

Lol. Wet dream guy ran into a problem installing the Photon to a full suspension frame he bought specifically for this motor. I don't get the whole need to put these on full suspension bikes personally as I am a commuter and I also don't get why this guy felt the need to either being he lives in New York City.