Considering a Specialized, got a few questions

[GaryInCO]

I'm bike shopping. Whoo there is a bewildering array of available options. I'm starting to zero in on Specialized, though Trek is not out of the running yet. I definitely want a mid-drive with torque sensor.

Concern: I read a lot of comments saying Specialized's service is crap, while Trek is first-rate. Is this really a problem? What about reliability?

Specialized's website is not terribly helpful. Is there a summary anywhere that explains the differences between Vado, Como, Tero, etc? The Levo and Kenevo are apparently mtn bikes (and Levo is way out of my price range) but Vado/Como/Tero are all "active," whatever that means. I think the Como is basically an urban bike, Vado is also street-ish but maybe a bit more road-ish?, Tero is more of an "adventure" bike?

I'm not looking for a mountain bike. I'm 67 and won't be bombing down any mountain trails. I'd love to do some off-road cycling but there are limited options around here (northern Colorado) -- most trails are more rugged than I want to bike. Hell they're pretty rugged to *hike* -- I have a banged-up knee and minor head injury from a recent faceplant. So most of my riding will be bike trails and roads, but it would be nice to be able to go off-road.

The SL bikes are interesting -- 40%ish lighter sounds mighty nice. But obviously they give up a lot to slim down that much. I've read comments that the SLs are underpowered and other complaints. Any experiences there?

The belt drives sound good. Not sure if I'd want an IGH or not. Some big advantages, some disadvantages, but most people seem to love 'em.

Comments, recommendations, warnings? Thanks!

 

[rob feature]

I've had a few experiences with Trek's customer service lately. I'd rate their corporate service at a 2/10. They get one point for answering the phone, but the rep I spoke with was abrasive and defensive. And he did not do anything for me.

The local Trek store here was better. They're friendly and turned the warranty work around quickly. I did buy a crankset from them, which I reluctantly let them install, only to discover undertorqued fastners when I got the bike back. They didn't address half the issues on the list. I'd give them a 5/10 because they did do some things right and they were nice and communicated well.

Never talked to Specialized corporate, but I bought my Stumpy from a shop. Took several visits from them to get things right. Came to discover later on that one of the wrenches I was working with had been stealing from the shop and did some shady parts swapping on my bike as well as many others.

Both vendors make good bikes, but you're better off learning to work on your own stuff.

 

[warthor]

I'm bike shopping. Whoo there is a bewildering array of available options. I'm starting to zero in on Specialized, though Trek is not out of the running yet. I definitely want a mid-drive with torque sensor.

Concern: I read a lot of comments saying Specialized's service is crap, while Trek is first-rate. Is this really a problem? What about reliability?

Specialized's website is not terribly helpful. Is there a summary anywhere that explains the differences between Vado, Como, Tero, etc? The Levo and Kenevo are apparently mtn bikes (and Levo is way out of my price range) but Vado/Como/Tero are all "active," whatever that means. I think the Como is basically an urban bike, Vado is also street-ish but maybe a bit more road-ish?, Tero is more of an "adventure" bike?

I'm not looking for a mountain bike. I'm 67 and won't be bombing down any mountain trails. I'd love to do some off-road cycling but there are limited options around here (northern Colorado) -- most trails are more rugged than I want to bike. Hell they're pretty rugged to *hike* -- I have a banged-up knee and minor head injury from a recent faceplant. So most of my riding will be bike trails and roads, but it would be nice to be able to go off-road.

The SL bikes are interesting -- 40%ish lighter sounds mighty nice. But obviously they give up a lot to slim down that much. I've read comments that the SLs are underpowered and other complaints. Any experiences there?

The belt drives sound good. Not sure if I'd want an IGH or not. Some big advantages, some disadvantages, but most people seem to love 'em.

Comments, recommendations, warnings? Thanks!

I am currently looking for a new e-bike and have found it extremely difficult to differentiate between models and designs, like you mentioned. And once you figure it out then you need to do it again for the next 400 e-bike companies. For your use case the Turbo Tero X would probably be recommended. It is what people are calling an "SUV" design which is a hybrid between mtn bike and a commuter. It does both of the things you want well and is regarded very highly.

Como - upright commuter
Vado - commuter
Tero - hybrid commuter/mtn bike

 

[rob feature]

I am currently looking for a new e-bike and have found it extremely difficult to differentiate between models and designs, like you mentioned. And once you figure it out then you need to do it again for the next 400 e-bike companies.

The way I narrow that down is taking a future-resistant approach. I'm looking for bikes that are likely to be supported down the road - and use as few proprietary parts as possible. And also using parts from vendors that are trusted.

I personally prefer Bosch-equipped bikes for these reasons. They're found on possibly more good ebikes than any other brand of electrical system & more shops are authorized to work on them than any other brand...so they tell me. I keep bikes for a long time, and knowing that there's a good chance I can easily replace a motor, battery or other part down the road is a primary consideration. Same with components - sticking with Shimano/Sram is usually going to assure compatibility for many years to come. Most fly by night brands do not offer this and those bikes will probably become obsolete after a few years.

I will go one-off with peripherals, but I want the basics to be supported.

 

[GaryInCO]

For your use case the Turbo Tero X would probably be recommended.

Unfortunately the Tero X 5 and 6 are too rich for me, and the Tero X 4 seems to be unavailable -- all grayed out.

 

[warthor]

Unfortunately the Tero X 5 and 6 are too rich for me, and the Tero X 4 seems to be unavailable -- all grayed out.

You can still likely get the bike. First select the model you want, then press the "find in store" button. There are many dealers that have it around me, and some can order it your house.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Specialized support depends on the quality of the LBS. You would be the best off with a Specialized owned LBS. Specialized has definitely the best warranty of them all.

A crash course on Turbo e-bikes:

• Vado and Vado IGH are commuter e-bikes with the gravel capability that also can be ridden on very easy trails.
• Como and Como IGH are city e-bikes
• Levo, Kenevo, Levo SL, Kenevo SL: If you need to ask what they are, these are not for you.
• Creo 1 and Creo 2: ditto
• Tero: a Cross-Country e-bike that can be used in the city and on more advanced trails.
• Tero X: A luxury SUV e-bike. An all-rounder.
• Vado SL: a lightweight, low power, small battery fitness e-bike
• Como SL: A strange city e-bike

Now, the version number: the bigger the more expensive with a bigger battery, stronger motor, and better componentry.

Now, the "full power" against "SL". If the pretty high weight is not scaring you off, you need to do big climbs and ride fast with a little of effort, you need a full power e-bike such as a Vado - version 4.0 recommended by me, Tero - I recommend version 4.0, or Tero X 5.0 that I would advise. If you are all for the fitness, need to lift and carry your e-bike at times, and you can store it above the freezing point: that would be a Vado SL.

For your information: I own a Vado 6.0 (a 28 mph Euro version of Vado 5.0) as well as a Vado SL 4.0 EQ. The full power Vado gives me the pleasure of easy rides for a long distance and/or a lot of climbing, while the Vado SL is my everyday ride that made miracles to my level of fitness.

 

[Sefutau2020]

Specialized support depends on the quality of the LBS. You would be the best off with a Specialized owned LBS. Specialized has definitely the best warranty of them all.

A crash course on Turbo e-bikes:

• Vado and Vado IGH are commuter e-bikes with the gravel capability that also can be ridden on very easy trails.
• Como and Como IGH are city e-bikes
• Levo, Kenevo, Levo SL, Kenevo SL: If you need to ask what they are, these are not for you.
• Creo 1 and Creo 2: ditto
• Tero: a Cross-Country e-bike that can be used in the city and on more advanced trails.
• Tero X: A luxury SUV e-bike. An all-rounder.
• Vado SL: a lightweight, low power, small battery fitness e-bike
• Como SL: A strange city e-bike

Now, the version number: the bigger the more expensive with a bigger battery, stronger motor, and better componentry.

Now, the "full power" against "SL". If the pretty high weight is not scaring you off, you need to do big climbs and ride fast with a little of effort, you need a full power e-bike such as a Vado - version 4.0 recommended by me, Tero - I recommend version 4.0, or Tero X 5.0 that I would advise. If you are all for the fitness, need to lift and carry your e-bike at times, and you can store it above the freezing point: that would be a Vado SL.

For your information: I own a Vado 6.0 (a 28 mph Euro version of Vado 5.0) as well as a Vado SL 4.0 EQ. The full power Vado gives me the pleasure of easy rides for a long distance and/or a lot of climbing, while the Vado SL is my everyday ride that made miracles to my level of fitness.

Ditto @Stefan Mikes ....well said. Vado 4 at the current discount pricing is a steal in my opinion....and I have owned 2, plus one Vado 4 SL. Hope that helps...

 

[GaryInCO]

Thanks Stefan! Great info.

"Commuter bike with gravel capability" -- sounds like just what I need. Most of my rides will be 20-40 miles on flats and some hills, with occasional rides of 50 miles or more, occasional gravelly rides.

I assume the Vado SL will handle gravel OK? I don't need extreme climbing ability, and I will be tossing it in the back of my car so light weight is nice. 58lbs for Vado and 28 for Vado SL?? That's a BIG difference. (I had a Lextric XPremium for a little while, and muscling that 75lb beast into the car was no fun!) The SL small battery doesn't sound like a problem...the range calculator says I'd get 60 miles in Eco, 40 in Sport. Why is freezing a concern? My garage catches a lot of lost heat from the house, but if we get an extended stretch of subzero it would probably freeze out there.

How do I find Specialized owned LBS? "Find a retailer" on the website returns places that don't even carry bikes, just water bottles, helmets, and tires.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I assume the Vado SL will handle gravel OK?

Vado SL 5.0 is well suited for that. Vado SL 4.0 is stiff and shaky. The 4.0 can be improved by adding a suspension stem etc but you do not need to do anything like that to SL 5.0. (I have overhauled my Vado SL 4.0 EQ to be almost "a gravel e-bike with flat handlebars" but now know I should have bought the SL 5.0 to avoid all that hassle).

I have ridden my overhauled Vado SL 4.0 in a gravel ultramarathon.

58lbs for Vado and 28 for Vado SL??

The true figure for the Vado SL 5.0 is rather 35 lbs if that's the unequipped version. Still nicely lightweight! (I regularly carry my 37 lb Vado SL up three flights of stairs).

The SL small battery doesn't sound like a problem...the range calculator says I'd get 60 miles in Eco, 40 in Sport.

The values look probable but you need to consider how little assistance you are getting for that battery range. To explain it simply, the default ECO mode of the SL is "It's 0.63x You!" Generally, Vado SL is designed for healthy people to further improve their fitness or get some nice boost uphill or upwind. If you are not that type of a person, expect slow rides with some effort, or shorter range at higher assistance (that can be tuned by the rider).

If you find out the range on the internal battery is too short, you can add a Range Extender, an external battery that looks like a water bottle. I will be honest with you: I had to use multiple Range Extenders before I got fit. Now, I often ride my Vado SL with the assistance OFF, just for a better workout. However, the maximum grade I could climb with my bad legs on my Vado SL in full SL Turbo and the "granny gear" was some 10%, and that climb was not very long. I would not be able to ride a Vado SL in high mountains!

Why is freezing a concern?

The internal battery of Vado SL cannot be easily removed so it has to be charged on the bike. You must not charge Li-Ion batteries below the freezing point under the peril of fire or explosion. You can store the battery/e-bike at temperatures mildly below the freezing point but Li-Ion batteries are not happy for that. That's a thing to consider for you (I keep my Vado SL in the apartment).

How do I find Specialized owned LBS? "Find a retailer" on the website returns places that don't even carry bikes, just water bottles, helmets, and tires.

A Specialized owned LBS typically has "Specialized" in its name. I have run a search for Houston TX to find as many as thirteen retailers there. Only one of them was named "Specialized Houston" I am not an American and do not live there but to me a good Specialized dealership should look as impressively as a good car dealership with many bikes and e-bikes on the showroom floor. The most important fact is such an LBS only carries Specialized, and is decorated with numerous Specialized logos, banners, etc. Good luck!

In Specialized Warsaw, Warsaw Poland. The number of Specialized stores in the capital of our country has been reduced to just two but the Specialized Warsaw and Specialized Warsaw Soho are well stocked, and the personnel there is highly trained in both bikes and e-bikes. The second picture was taken three months before I bought the white Vado SL visible there.

Big logos everywhere and only Specialized ware.

A privately owned "Riders' Zone" Specialized LBS in Płock, Mazovia, Poland. Only selling Specialized ware, and decorated with Specialized material. The five e-bikes are demo e-bikes that can be rented for a long demo ride against a moderate fee. I liked that store, too, even if that was not owned by Specialized.

P.S. One of the sentences in my previous post could be unclear. In my opinion, Specialized has the best e-bike warranty of all the brands, regardless how and where it was bought. It is a transferable 2-year warranty on the e-bike, and a lifetime warranty on the frame (only for the first owner), and it works as long as you have the Proof of Purchase, the Warranty Card, and have registered your e-bike on Specialized.com

 

[Stefan Mikes]

@GaryInCO:
An afterthought. The Specialized Creo 2 Comp is a 100% gravel e-bike, and it is the newest thing. However, it has drop handlebars so I was not mentioning it. All the remarks about the battery, Range Extender and storage for Vado SL hold true for Creo 2. Only Creo 2 has a stronger motor and thus a shorter range unless you tune the assistance down.

The Creo 2 has everything a serious gravel cyclist would need, and it is below 33 lbs. All carbon.

 

[mschwett]

@GaryInCO sounds like the bike you want is either a vado SL or a vado 4 or 5. personally i wouldn't get the vado 3 in colorado, since there are mountains. 9 speeds vs 11 or 12, and a less powerful motor (50nm of torque vs 70).

these bikes aren't too hard to find these days, would strongly recommend you pick two and then check which retailers near you have one or both in stock. for example, vado 4 size L near-ish to denver.

no idea which of these bike shops is good, but the first two, for example, have quite a few different bikes in stock, and are close together. better to visit in person and see how large, well equipped, knowledgeable, etc they are. see if the customers at the service counter seem happy or sad.

*some* specialized owned retail outlets have specialized in the name, but many do not. the one nearest me in san francisco is not branded as owned by specialized in any way, but they are, and the receipts all say "specialized retail" or something.

the SL is in stock in size L at specialized denver, which is obviously a specialized-owned retailer. lol.

 

[GaryInCO]

@Stefan Mikes oh dear I'm afraid the Creo 2 is well out of my price range!! I'm choking on the Vado SL 5.0 price ...

It sounds like you're saying the Vado SL 4.0 is almost not worth it, since it takes significant $$upgrading$$. Might as well just apply the $$ to a SL 5.0? Except, ouch, it's $1500 more than an SL 4.0. And it still has the 35 Nm motor &etc

The light weight of the SL would be VERY nice, for riding, carrying, and tossing into the car. But I'm concerned about the lightweight motor. I weigh 190 lbs = 86 kg before any gear. I need to find one at the LBS so I can see what it feels like.

I am not a hard-core cyclist. I haven't even had a proper road bike in decades -- I've been riding a recumbent, and not all that much, especially lately. (I'm 67 and I've had 2 forms of cancer in the last 4 years, so there wasn't a lot of riding in there.) So I don't need something I could ride in an ultramarathon. I'd love it, but I probably can't justify the extra k$$ it would cost. I just want a good bike for fun 30-60 mile rides, occasional gravel, occasional serious hills.

Oh right I understand the freezing problem. I have a battery lawn mower, and the first battery only lasted 4 years. I believe it's because I left it on the charger out in the cold. Now I bring it inside in the winter. Not sure how I'd do that with a bike though. I had intended to pop the bike battery off and bring it inside, but that's not gonna work with Specialized. Bringing it inside is possible but would be a fairly major PITA. Not as bad as carrying it up 3 flights of stairs, but ... I'm seriously tempted to build it a little "dog house" to keep it warm in the winter !! On the other hand my brother has a Specialized ebike and his winters get colder than mine. I'll ask him how his bike likes it.

 

[GaryInCO]

@mschwett yes I've been looking too.

Specialized Denver does not seem to be a company-owned store. It's "now part of the Incycle Marketplace," which is apparently a Southern California-based chain or association of bike shops. They're expanding -- we have two of them in town as of last summer (10 mins away instead of 70 mins to Specialized Denver), and I'm planning to go check them out this afternoon. We got 6" of snow last night so probably no riding today, but I can find out what's there.

 

[jtooley]

Get the Vado SL. 4.0 or 5.0. I am 6’3” weigh 195 and I own a Vado Sl 4.0. its rigid and shakes compared to a carbon frame, but put a red shift stem on it, and it’s pretty smooth.

 

[GaryInCO]

Thanks, @jtooley. If it works for you, it oughta work for me. Bummer that the 5.0 is $1000-1500 more than the 4.0, and that the step-throughs aren't on sale!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Gary,
I can see four criteria here:

• E-bike weight
• Climbing capability
• Winter storage
• Financial restriction.

Regarding the e-bike weight, you need a lightweight one. If not this criterion, I would just say "buy a Vado 4.0". Vado 4.0 is the best value for money, with its big battery, intermediate power/torque motor, and componentry. Generally, the single mod I could recommend for that model and serious hills would be fitting a small chainring (and shortening the chain) as the Vado is all made for speed but not climbing. Or, a Tero 4.0 (not X), which is very similar to Vado 4.0 but it handles rough terrain far better, and is a great climber without any modification! Both Vado and Tero have a removable battery, which would solve the "winter issue" for good.

However, these e-bikes weigh almost 60 lbs, and that is what makes you think negative of them in the terms of handling.

Vado SL in any configuration is underpowered, and it might not be suitable for big hills, even with modified gearing. I do not know very much about your hills but for me >10% grade means a full power e-bike would be greatly recommended.

It sounds like you're saying the Vado SL 4.0 is almost not worth it, since it takes significant $$upgrading$$. Might as well just apply the $$ to a SL 5.0? Except, ouch, it's $1500 more than an SL 4.0. And it still has the 35 Nm motor &etc

Well, I went the upgrade way as a Vado SL 4.0 EQ felt far too away from "a gravel e-bike" and I thought whatever I saved from the 5.0 could be used for the upgrades. These are benefits of the Vado SL 5.0:

• The carbon fork and FutureShock suspension for the front make this e-bike "gravel capable" from the day 1. This combination makes the front of the e-bike perfectly vibration free
• More capable drivetrain with a better gearing for climbs
• Better brakes
• Better headlight
• Mastermind TCU (Vado SL 4.0 still seems to be sold with the Gen 1 TCU).

Is it worth $1,500? This is what I had to do to my Vado SL 4.0 EQ to upgrade it:

Front

• Swap the stock stem for a Redshift ShockStop Suspension Stem with the Utility Mount ($240)
• Buy a GoPro compatible handlebar mount ($???, not expensive) for the headlight
• Relocate the headlight to the Utility Mount, via the GoPro mount, and there was a problem to make a 25.4-31.8 mm shim there (I used pieces of rubber there)

Rear

• Swap the stock seat-post for a RedShift ShockStop Suspension Seat-Post ($230)

Now, you might ask why Vado SL EQ not the unequipped version? It is because the tail-light is integrated with the seat-post and the saddle in the non-equipped version, making the seat-post replacement very hard. Very difficult. (Let me not go into details).

Of course, I made many more modifications to my Vado SL 4.0 EQ but those are irrelevant here.

There have been many changes to my Vado SL 4.0 EQ but those were dictated by my specific needs. Notice the lack of the front fender and the sporty riding position I managed to create.
------------

Now, the most important issues related to your potential purchase of a Vado SL are:

• Will it climb your hills?
• Will you be able to protect the e-bike against the frost? (Ask your brother if his Specialized has a removable battery)

I leave you with your thoughts!

 

[GaryInCO]

Both Vado and Tero have a removable battery, which would solve the "winter issue" for good.

True for the Vado, unfortunately not for the Vado SL. You have to remove the motor &etc to get at the battery. So it's not a good solution for winter storage & charging.

Vado SL in any configuration is underpowered, and it might not be suitable for big hills, even with modified gearing. I do not know very much about your hills but for me >10% grade means a full power e-bike would be greatly recommended.

We have lots of >10% trails around here, but I don't plan to ride 'em. I don't want to ride on steep hiking trails. They're too rocky and rugged for me. I do enough damage just *hiking* on those trails.

Meanwhile ...

I went to check out the local bike shop -- which IS Specialized-owned, as of last summer. It's a small shop so I didn't expect much variety. I asked the guy (asst mgr) "I don't suppose you have any XL frames I could check out?" He said "As a matter of fact we have an XL Turbo Vado SL 5.0. It's the bike I rode last fall, so we're selling it as a demo, for $2000 off." !!!!

He's as tall as I am, and definitely huskier, and he said he had no trouble with the SL power.

Only bummer: it's not a step-through. The seat was set high even for me, and it was damn hard to get my leg over it. But I'll go back in a few days when it's warmed up (it snowed 6" / 15cm last night) and take it for a ride with the seat properly adjusted. If it's too hard to swing my leg over it, even with the seat lowered, a Turbo Como SL would do the trick. Or maybe a non-SL Como, since I really like the loowww step-through, but we'll see.

... I just realized there's no proper display. I'll check this week but I don't think it had a Mastermind TCU. I assume the Mission Control app still works with the little mini TCU?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

True for the Vado, unfortunately not for the Vado SL. You have to remove the motor &etc to get at the battery. So it's not a good solution for winter storage & charging.

This is exactly what I said. Because of certain issues I have to live with, my Vado is stored without the battery inside my car, while I share my apartment with a Vado SL

We have lots of >10% trails around here, but I don't plan to ride 'em. I don't want to ride on steep hiking trails. They're too rocky and rugged for me. I do enough damage just *hiking* on those trails.

OK, I promise you could climb up to 10% in the granny gear and SL Turbo mode of the Vado SL. Fortunately, we have no bigger hills than that one in my greater neighbourhood. In any case, you could replace the 44T Vado SL chainring with something smaller, even a 36T. A simple operation making the gearing more mountain capable.

I went to check out the local bike shop -- which IS Specialized-owned, as of last summer. It's a small shop so I didn't expect much variety. I asked the guy (asst mgr) "I don't suppose you have any XL frames I could check out?" He said "As a matter of fact we have an XL Turbo Vado SL 5.0. It's the bike I rode last fall, so we're selling it as a demo, for $2000 off." !!!!

YAY!

Only bummer: it's not a step-through. The seat was set high even for me, and it was damn hard to get my leg over it.

I made this video 2 years ago (Vado SL). You must forgive my terrible English there (I was not in the best language form on that day but eventually rode for almost 100 miles later) Currently, I recommend the part of mounting the e-bike. As for dismounting, I prefer leaning the e-bike onto the drive-side (a lot), and swinging the leg over the saddle.

Bear in mind my legs suffer from atherosclerosis, so it should be hard for me but it is not.

... I just realized there's no proper display. I'll check this week but I don't think it had a Mastermind TCU. I assume the Mission Control app still works with the little mini TCU?

The SL 5.0 should have a Mastermind TCU. It could be an older model, explaining the huge discount. If it is this, don't worry. The older Vado SL 5.0 comes with a Shimano drivetrain, which is simply better and more practical (and more economical to maintain) than the current SRAM.

No display?

• Mission Control app
• The new Specialized App
• A Garmin or a Wahoo bike GPS computer
• A Specialized TCD display, which is $100.

 

[GaryInCO]

OK, I promise you could climb up to 10% in the granny gear and SL Turbo mode of the Vado SL.

The climbing isn't what worries me. It's bombing DOWN those steep/rough/rocky trails. That sounds like a medical emergency just waiting to happen.

I made this video 2 years ago (Vado SL). You must forgive my terrible English there

Your "terrible" English is vastly better than any non-English language I speak! I know bits of German, French, tiny bits of Swedish, a little Japanese -- but I'm not conversant in any of 'em.

I'll go back to the LBS this week, and find out the model year & other details.