3500-4500$ Ebike, help me choose

[ebikerr]

Looking for a mid drive commuter for gravel and city roads. Typical commute is 15 miles or so, and would like to have sustained 20-25mph speed.
I have shortlisted the following
Cannondale Tesoro Neo X2 - 4100$
Trek Allant+ 7S - Trek - 4050$
Specialized Turbo Vado 4.0 - $4000
Gazelle Medeo T10+ HMB - 3700$

These 4 bikes are very similar? Any other brand I am missing in this class and type (class 3 mid drive torque sensing brose/Bosch 250W 75-85Nm motors)?
Specialized has the best display, but the lowest power.

I am not sure which of these have a suspension seat post, but a couple have.

Cannondale is sold by REI so the 10% member cashback puts it at Gazelle price.

SO I am confused between these 4. What are the pros of cons of these 4 bikes? Which one would you prefer, and is there any other brand I should look at in this price range (Need warranty support and local network)

 

[retiredNH]

These are pretty similar bikes any way you look at them. Why not try them out, decide which fits the best, and which LBS seems the best? I'd put a suspension seat post at the bottom of the priority list, since you can always install one.
Keep in mind that even with an ebike, sustained 20+ MPH is a tough thing, especially with any kind of head wind. view it as an aspirational goal...

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I'm on a 100-km ride on my Vado so I'd answer later but look at your list and try demo riding the only non Bosch ebike there If you like a lightweight and nimble one that would give you some workout too, have a look at Vado SL.

 

[ebikerr]

I'm on a 100-km ride on my Vado so I'd answer later but look at your list and try demo riding the only non Bosch ebike there If you like a lightweight and nimble one that would give you some workout too, have a look at Vado SL.

If you are back from your ride . Let me know your thoughts

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Hi @ebikerr: I made 189 km (117.5 mi) over last weekend on my two different Specialized e-bikes (older Vado 5.0 and a 2020 Vado SL 4.0 EQ), and I plan riding more I need to sleep sometimes...

You did not say anything about your physical shape (can you for example pedal a traditional bike?), where you live (flat, hilly, montane?), where you want to ride (pavement, gravel, off-road?) the purpose for which you want to use the e-bike (commute, adventure, recreation, fitness?) and distances you think you could ride (30 or rather 60 miles?) Therefore let me give you a general answer.

All e-bikes you mentioned are of so called "full power, mid-drive, commute" type. Any of them is rather heavy, yet all they shine on the pavement. You could ride on gravel, and occasionally on easy off-road trails. Neither of these e-bikes would have an issue to climb reasonable hills. You could expect practical cruising speed over 20 mph but only up to 25 mph (unless you ride with strong tailwind or downhill). And, each of these four e-bikes has got a cheap coil-loaded suspension fork (it is typical for that class, unfortunately -- you typically cannot replace the fork with a better one). Now, let us concentrate on the details:

• Cannondale, Trek, and Gazelle are Bosch E-Bikes, using the legacy system (none of them is the latest Bosch Smart System)
• Each of these three e-bikes is equipped with depressingly small 500 Wh battery. It is a laugh nowadays (yes, you could probably buy a second expensive battery for some of them if you can get it, and be prepared for high expense).
• Each of these e-bikes has it corners cut to come down to attractive price. It is the Purion display (a joke!), it is lower end drivetrain, it is cheaper brakes or low power charger (2A) for some of these models.
• If anything goes wrong, part of issues is being solved by Cannondale or Trek or Gazelle LBS but the motor/electronics issues are handled by Bosch E-Bike representative (if I'm wrong, let other users correct me)

Meanwhile the 2022 Specialized Turbo Vado 4.0:

• The latest (highly praised) Mastermind system
• 710 Wh battery (41% more capable!)
• 4 A charger
• 11-speed drivetrain
• Full LEV (e-bike) ANT+ integration with GPS bike computers, smartphones, sports wearables...
• Single point of warranty handling, service and repairs (your Specialized LBS)
• Specialized e-bikes can now be ordered online but they will be delivered and handled by your Specialized LBS.

Yes, the Specialized 2.0 motor used with Vado 4.0 is 70 Nm vs 85 Nm for the Bosch Performance Speed motors. If you live in a very hilly area, you can easily replace the chainring to compensate the difference. ($5,000 buys you a 90 Nm 2.2 motor with Vado 5.0, or the ultimate model).

Now, I have been asking for your physical fitness. $3,750-4,000 buys you the Specialized Vado SL 4.0 (non-equipped or equipped). If you still could pedal a traditional bike, the SL is a lightweight e-bike (see my avatar) that can be pedalled even without the assistance. The low weight comes from a twice as less powerful motor compared to the full power e-bikes, and a smaller battery. It might be an interesting alternative for you if you need fitness workout & recreation. The point is all the "big" e-bikes mentioned here feel like giving you Superman powers, and as much natural they feel, they still somewhat feel like light motorcycles Very good for the commute, less good for recreation and fitness. Now, a little bit of statistics:

I also used to own a Giant full suspension e-MTB (2,288 km), and a hub-drive motor generic e-bike (3,923 km). I keep these two Specialized e-bikes now.

 

[ebikerr]

Thank you for your extremely detailed reply. My fitness is average. I do about 10mile ride three times a week on a Trek Verge Disc bike which cost around 450$

I plan to start commuting about 15 miles, and planning to ditch the car. I would be riding at level 3-4. So the SL version is not really needed by me.

You bring up a nice point about Specialized. I will ride mostly on flat terrain with couple of overpasses, and want to do 15 mile commute in about 50 minutes max.

I am also looking at couple of other bikes. Prodigy XR - It has no suspension fork.
And the lovely Priority current with a 140nm Torque motor and a gates belt drive.

Out of these 4 bikes, I am guessing Speciailzed makes the most sense, or Gazelle due to its lower price point by 500$ than the big 3.

But I am even give an online retailer a change, because 3100$ for a gates CVT bike with a powerful motor is quite nice.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I plan to start commuting about 15 miles, and planning to ditch the car. I would be riding at level 3-4.

15 mile commute in about 50 minutes max.

I will ride mostly on flat terrain with couple of overpasses

18 mph average... Probably* doable with the all four you mentioned before in higher assistance modes if you won't meet obstacles such as frequent junctions with red signals. That will be intensive on the battery, therefore the battery size matters here. And the battery is the most expensive component of an e-bike. That's why Cannondale, Trek, Gazelle and Priority offer small 500 Wh batteries.

And the lovely Priority current with a 140nm Torque motor and a gates belt drive.

"500w mid-drive torque sensing motor with class leading 140NM of max torque".
"Ships as a Class 1, 20MPH setting, but can increase to Class 3, 28MPH setting. (Please note local laws)"
No-name 500 W, 140 Nm motor? Really?
"A frame-integrated 500wh 48v battery - charges on and off the bike"
Really? Do you realise how big the power consumption from the small battery and a big motor would be?
Who does the warranty, service, and support here?

-----------
*) Note: I often do a local commute for 13 miles. There are no signals on my route. Even if I ride my 90 Nm, 520 W peak power, 45 km/h (28 mph) Vado 5.0 really fast, I arrive in 45 minutes on average. You should revise your 15 mile plan for 50 minutes. The real life can be disappointing!

 

[ebikerr]

Yes, both priority current and prodigy ride 1up (brose motor) are a bit of a gamble, but at under 2500$, I save 1700$. These companies offer 2 year warranty and based on the forum threads they ship replacement motors etc., promptly as they are USA based.

In the end its like spending 1500$ more and getting more peace of mind, but maybe I will go a bit adventurous

 

[Stefan Mikes]

maybe I will go a bit adventurous

Caveat emptor.
Brose motor is one thing but the system around it is quite different.
An afterthought: Yes you pay more for a quality e-bike from a big brand. When anything goes wrong, it is not your worry because you paid more for the brand to be worried, not you.

 

[AHicks]

Caveat emptor.
Brose motor is one thing but the system around it is quite different.
An afterthought: Yes you pay more for a quality e-bike from a big brand. When anything goes wrong, it is not your worry because you paid more for the brand to be worried, not you.

As long as it breaks under warranty. When beyond warranty, it WILL be even more of a concern, as now you will be looking at being forced to have a shop do the work, while using proprietary ($$$) parts.

 

[WattsUpDude]

Wabash RT?

 

[tomjasz]

As long as it breaks under warranty. When beyond warranty, it WILL be even more of a concern, as now you will be looking at being forced to have a shop do the work, while using proprietary ($$$) parts.

So, how’s that different from being Bafanged and not finding repair parts?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

So, how’s that different from being Bafanged and not finding repair parts?

Because the big brand WILL deliver the replacement. Besides, what breaks? Neither my Vado or Vado SL ever broke.

 

[rich c]

Looking for a mid drive commuter for gravel and city roads. Typical commute is 15 miles or so, and would like to have sustained 20-25mph speed.
I have shortlisted the following
Cannondale Tesoro Neo X2 - 4100$
Trek Allant+ 7S - Trek - 4050$
Specialized Turbo Vado 4.0 - $4000
Gazelle Medeo T10+ HMB - 3700$

These 4 bikes are very similar? Any other brand I am missing in this class and type (class 3 mid drive torque sensing brose/Bosch 250W 75-85Nm motors)?
Specialized has the best display, but the lowest power.

I am not sure which of these have a suspension seat post, but a couple have.

Cannondale is sold by REI so the 10% member cashback puts it at Gazelle price.

SO I am confused between these 4. What are the pros of cons of these 4 bikes? Which one would you prefer, and is there any other brand I should look at in this price range (Need warranty support and local network)

To average 20-25mph, you'll need stretches of 35mph unless you never have to stop.

 

[scrambler]

If no front suspension fork is workable, then you can also look at the New Evelo Omega bike.

The NEW Omega Step-Through eBike – EVELO

It has a modern larger 21700 cells 720Wh battery, a 1000W peak (750W sustained) with 115Nm of torque motor, with multi sensor (including torque) pedal assist, and it has the Enviolo with the Automatiq system.

And of course Evelo 4 years warranty and 21 days trial…

 

[scrambler]

you typically cannot replace the fork with a better one). ..

Hey Stefan, can you elaborate on that?
Thanks

 

[TrevorB]

Thank you for your extremely detailed reply. My fitness is average. I do about 10mile ride three times a week on a Trek Verge Disc bike which cost around 450$

I plan to start commuting about 15 miles, and planning to ditch the car. I would be riding at level 3-4. So the SL version is not really needed by me.

You bring up a nice point about Specialized. I will ride mostly on flat terrain with couple of overpasses, and want to do 15 mile commute in about 50 minutes max.

I am also looking at couple of other bikes. Prodigy XR - It has no suspension fork.
And the lovely Priority current with a 140nm Torque motor and a gates belt drive.

Out of these 4 bikes, I am guessing Speciailzed makes the most sense, or Gazelle due to its lower price point by 500$ than the big 3.

But I am even give an online retailer a change, because 3100$ for a gates CVT bike with a powerful motor is quite nice.

Low mainetance of belt drive is big plus for commuting especially with CVT hub. CVT allows you to ride at 20mph cutoff at your happy cadence, which may not be case with fixed gears.

 

[AHicks]

So, how’s that different from being Bafanged and not finding repair parts?

At the very least I won't have to pay a shop to tell me they can't find a part or give me some other BS reason they can't fix it?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

If you consider things such as Evelo then I waste my time here. I thought we talked quality e-bikes. Compared to a hot-dog, premium brands offer "meat from a named animal"

Forks: The largest brands typically use Suntour Mobie forks which are not only not the best but these are not available in the aftermarket. It is very hard to find a better replacement because the good companies making suspension forks are not interested to provide a 50-80 mm travel air forks (meaning quality) for as advanced concept as the modern thru-axle. Such companies produce for XC and MTB market. Therefore as you get your Suntour Mobie fork, it is hard to imagine finding anything better.

 

[AHicks]

If you consider things such as Evelo then I waste my time here. I thought we talked quality e-bikes. Compared to a hot-dog, premium brands offer "meat from a named animal"

Forks: The largest brands typically use Suntour Mobie forks which are not only not the best but these are not available in the aftermarket. It is very hard to find a better replacement because the good companies making suspension forks are not interested to provide a 50-80 mm travel air forks (meaning quality) for as advanced concept as the modern thru-axle. Such companies produce for XC and MTB market. Therefore as you get your Suntour Mobie fork, it is hard to imagine finding anything better.

So now we should be shamed for considering a bike by Evelo. Please share with me wise man. I'm considering an Evelo Atlas. What would you consider to be similar in performance (120Nm Torque 600W/1200W) with similar features (CVT, belt drive, Schwalbe Moto X 27.5 x 2.8" tires, 48V 15AH Samsung In Frame Battery), that YOU approve of?

EVELO Atlas

Get all the features you want to explore 100-mile range in style. Includes the Enviolo CVT gearing system, Carbon Belt Drive, and a phenomenally powerful motor system. Plus 120 N.m. Torque with1200 Watts Peak Power you'll never worry about hills again.

evelo.com