Specialized Turbo Vado 4.0, Cannondale Tesoro Neo X Speed or Trek Allant+ 8S???

[sherlockbonz]

Hey Ebike Reviews Forum members, I’m new here and looking for some help in choosing my first eBikes.

Some background; my wife and I are in our mid 50’s, and have been riders off and on for the last 30 years. My go-to bike is a 1992 Trek 8900 frameset with a 1985 vintage Deore XT drivetrain. I’ve also got a Domane with Ultegra gear and my wife has a classic Waterford with Ultegra. I worked at a bike shop for about 15 years and working on bikes is a hobby. (I’m an engineer as well, so I am probably grossly overthinking this whole decision).

We live in WI, and most of our riding would be done on recreational state trails, relatively flat, and probably 70% paved and 30% “other”, primarily packed dirt/gravel. Typical rides would be 30-60 miles which we can do comfortably now on our regular bikes. Goal would be to do a weekend overnight trip with 65 miles each day.

I’m looking for class 3 mid-drive, and I’ve narrowed my choices to three, with two alternates that have “fatal flaws” for me. Since I need to buy 2 bikes, plus a new eBike rated rack I’d like to keep the bikes in the $3500 - $4000 range each.
Here are my choices, with my perceived pro’s and con’s. Any input/comments/corrections would be appreciated:

First choice – Specialized Turbo Vado 4.0. 650B wheels, 48T chainring with a SRAM 11 speed 11-42 cassette.
What I like:

• Seems to be the best “bang for the buck” at a street price of about $3250.
• 710Wh battery is the largest in the group I am looking at.
• 70N-m motor, so to me a lower wattage motor + higher watt-hour battery = best range.
• Plenty available.
• Two LBS to work with for service.

What I don’t like:

• All the others I am looking at use Bosch eBike components. 5 years from now I think service parts will be easier to find, including replacement batteries. Remember, I ride a 30 year old bike now so maybe I think differently. I just don’t want to end up with two $3500 paperweights in 5 years.
• Does not support an aux battery. That means for my overnight trip I’m either hauling a charger or a spare battery.
• Low end seatpost – would likely swap with a Redshift parallelogram design, which negates a chunk of the cost savings.
• I have read horror stories about people who wait forever for replacement parts.

Close second choice – Cannondale Tesoro Neo X Speed 28 wheels, 46T chainring with 12 speed 10-51 cassette.
What I like:

• “Common” Bosch Power Tube 625Wh battery.
• 85N-m motor.
• Supports aux battery, or I can order spare Bosch Power Tube 625Wh batteries from a major online retailer.
• 28in wheel might be more suitable for our target blend of riding, and should improve range.

What I don’t like:

• Only one local retailer (national chain outdoor store)
• Have heard horror stories about their charging ports on other models, but limited info on this one.
• Limited availability.

Third choice – Specialized Turbo Vado 5.0
Similar to Turbo Vado 4.0, but the bike geek in me likes the upgraded components. Same negatives as the Turbo Vado 4.0 however, and street price is outside of my range at this point.

I’m a Trek fan at heart, and I’ve owned probably 20 Treks since 1983 or so (plus a Cannondale, a couple of Schwinn's but no Specialized). I have worked with Trek's R&D team on product testing through work, and Waterloo is only about 25miles from me so I really wanted to love what they were putting out. That being said, the two Trek’s that are in the running have “fatal flaws” that I don’t think I can be talked out of.
Alternate #1 – Trek Allant+ 8S
I like most everything about this bike, but that rack is an abomination. The fender sticks up through the center of the rack, which makes using a trunk bag worthless. The rear light is integrated in the fender, and the rack is more of a fender bracket than a rack (lowest capacity of any eBike rack I have seen, and that wtf were they thinking fender bulge). I’ve seen people kluge a second rack over it but for $4000 street price I don’t want to go there.

Alternate #2 – Trek Allant+ 7S
This bike looked great to me, but the 500W-h battery is a deal breaker.

So there you have it. I vacillate between the Specialized and the Cannondale daily, with the soft spot for Trek saying I could deal with the rack. What say you, EBR community?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

With your very well defined observations and needs, there are the things you need to consider:

• Do a demo ride whenever applicable. You would be riding your choice every day. You need to love your e-bike.
• Consider a highly qualified LBS possibly very close to you. It is the most important thing related to e-bikes. If Specialized, let it be a Specialized owned store, etc.

Of the brands you have mentioned, Specialized offers the best warranty. If you use a proper LBS, you won't wait for months for a spare part. The service I'm getting from Specialized in my country has been excellent, that's why I have standardized on the brand.

Regarding the sustainability. Well, I still get spare batteries for a Specialized Vado Gen 1 that was built 6 years ago. You are thinking of a Gen 2 Vado, the better. The Vado 4.0 is indeed the best bang for the buck!

If you consider a Bosch e-bike, let it be a new Smart System one. Did you mention sustainability?
---------
You are talking replacing the seat-post in the Vado before you even have ridden it Do not lend yourself to "upgrade-itis"! Ride the e-bike for a couple of months first.

 

[sherlockbonz]

Thank you for the input Stefan. Unfortunately many of the manufacturers in the US don't have company stores (Trek is the exception, but the nearest company store is about an hour drive away). The nearby Specialized dealer seems to be very knowledgeable, so that is certainly a positive for the Vado. The Cannondale is sold by an outdoor goods company (camping gear, hiking boots, clothing) which has a section devoted to bikes. I don't think they have the same capabilities as a traditional LBS.

I am glad to hear about your ability to source a replacement battery. I called Specialized and they told me they have no formal policy on maintaining products for discontinued bikes, but that batteries were still stocked for their first generation eBikes.

Upgrade-itis comes with the territory of being an engineer and having worked at the bike shops. We used to call it being a "spontaneous parts changer". Some things you never outgrow!

I believe I will end up with a pair of Vado 4's.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Upgrade-itis comes with the territory of being an engineer and having worked at the bike shops. We used to call it being a "spontaneous parts changer". Some things you never outgrow!

Well, the Vado has a suspension seat-post. The seat-tube is oversized to accommodate it. Going from a 27.2 mm Redshift to the actual 34.9 mm seat-tube diameter would require a massive shim. Now, I would try riding the Vado with the existing suspension seat-post for a longer while just to determine whether it were as hopeless as to replace it with something better! You are buying two e-bikes, and the Redshift is not cheap at all!

Good luck!

P.S. @GuruUno: How do you like the Vado suspension seat-post? Is it any good?

 

[Sefutau2020]

I have owned two Vado 4's (2022 and 2023) and they are EXCELLENT bikes. For the money, and I say this as an owner of 10 e-bikes over time, including Giant and Trek, none of those manufacturers match Specialized' s engineering. The pedaling of the Vado 4 is extremely intuitive and buttery smooth. At the current price of $3250 (US), the Vado 4 is a steal. When you buy this bike, in my opinion, you don't need any extras. Hope that helps....

 

[sherlockbonz]

Going to test the Specialized tonight. May not buy for a few weeks, but should have a good feel for it.

 

[TrevorB]

If plan is use bikes for touring then why a class 3 ebike?.
We have a couple class 1 trekking bikes and typically ride around 20kmhr when touring rarely do 30kmhr. When it comes to battery range slower the better. Besides idea is to enjoy ride not get from A-B as quickly as possible, unless commuting in which case class 3 is way to go.

Going to Class 1 bike opens up a lot more choices.

 

[Holland-Tim-Allant+8S]

Sherlockbonz,

What did you buy?

Curious to hear. I have Trek Allant+8S. Added Redshift Seatpost suspension and Raised Adjustable Steering Stem. Big improvements. 2-1/2 years probably 2,500 miles if not more. Both my wife and I have one. Specialized has upgraded everything since then and they ride and handle SWEET.

Would "like" front suspension and slightly more upright seating position. And if I could really dream Deore XT vs. Deore. There is a big difference ... flame war incoming ... but i have both and there is a big difference. Allant 9 has the Deore XT but you have to pony up for carbon which is stupid on an already fat ebike. And dumb diamond frame. Low step is the way to go if you are 50 or older (I'm 56.)

Dealer, Dealer, Dealer. Things can and do go wrong. You Want Support.

Patronize your LBS and they will be your Friend.

Last advice is spend up for the parts you really want. It is an investment with return. You are a sophisticated buyer. You will notice the difference. (The gubbermint will always print mo money ... $32Trillion debt ...

Sincerely,
Tim

 

[sherlockbonz]

Thank you for the follow up Tim.

I ended up buying two Turbo Vado 4's from a single location local bike shop. This kind of hurt, because as I mentioned, I'm a long-time Trek guy. I bought my first Trek in 1982, and I can remember buying the following, but there are probably a few I missed:

• 1982 model 311 road bike
• 1983 model 720 touring bike
• 1987 model 1200 road bike
• 1989 model 950 singletrack mountain bike
• 1989(?) model 930 singletrack mountain bike
• 1990 model 8900 mountain bike that I just did a frame-swap last year to a 1993 8300 frame to get a modern headset - I still ride this most often
• 1991 model 520 touring bike
• 1992 model 520 touring bike
• 1992 model 8000 mountain bike that my wife still rides today
• 1993 model 620 touring bike
• 1993 model 8300 - my son's mountain bike we bought used and upgraded to Deore XTR components
• 2001 or 2002 5200 frameset - bought as a frameset, built with Ultegra components
• 2004 model 2200 - my son's road bike we bought used and did a frame-up restoration
• 2005(?) 7.5FX - my daughter's hybrid, which I think was a local dealership exclusive model
• 2013 Domane 4.0 custom (upgraded from 105 to Ultegra by LBS) - my everyday road bike

Of these, I still own 6 of them, and two of them got traded as downpayment for a used car a while back. Other than a few outliers (my wife's road bike is a really cool steel Waterford, my daughter has a Cannondale road bike and I owned a Cannondale back in the 1990's as well) I've been a Trek guy. I wanted to love the Allant+ 8S, but I couldn't get over the fact that I couldn't use a trunk bag with the way the Trek fender protrudes through the rack without cluging together something. I even had a different LBS reach out to Trek to see if I could get the Allant+ 8S drivetrain on an Allant+ 7 (making some sort of evil Allant+ 7S class 3 bike). That was not feasible.

I only got out to ride the Vado a couple of times before the temperatures dropped and the snow fell, but I'll give you my observations.
I think the riding experience is different than I've read about the Trek. Not better or worse, just different. From what I've read, the Trek experience is that you can really crank and go. With the Specialized, I would say that the assist is very subtle. Basically everything uphill or into the wind feels like riding on level ground in calm winds. Downhill you coast forever given the weight of the bike. One of our rides was on a day where we had 28-35MPH sustained headwinds for a couple of miles, and it was not noticable. Going over 20MPH is real work, where with the Trek's I believe it is easier to achieve (higher wattage motor on the Trek). Riding position is comparable, but I still need to make some adjustments to dial my bike in.

I probably will still make some component changes. The composite pedals have to go for sure. I want to use the same seat I've gotten used to on my other two bikes. Seatpost might be upgraded at some point to get a little more travel. You see from my list above I don't mind tinkering and working on bikes is good therapeutic to me. Narrower and higher pressure tires to increase mileage? Lighter fork? Who knows.

 

[Holland-Tim-Allant+8S]

Interesting your journey to electric. my first "real" bike was after the 1984 LA olympics I bought a schwinn something 10 or 12 speed road bike that I took to the naval academy and it was my only real fun as a plebe restricted to the campus only but i got to fly around a lot on it.

the biggest difference between the Trek Allant 8 +S and Spec. Turbo Vado 4.0 is the 85 NM vs. 70 NM motor torque. Both are Class 3 for 28 mph assist. My Allant cuts through the wind like butter. In Turbo mode I can cruize at around 23 mph at an easy pace, so yes, these Bosch powertrains are powerful.

You have a bigger battery at 710 wh whereas mine is 625 wh, but I can get over 100 miles range in Eco mode. 50 miles in Sport (3rd highest assist). Turbo is probably closer to 35 miles. Our longest trip we do is from our home in Holland up to Grand Haven for about 44 miles round trip. We start in Eco then go to Tour then on the way home so to Sport then when close to home (and most tired and knee hurting the most) go to Turbo.

We added panniers from Trek and love them. This mitigated the "dumb" rear rack situation. It really is a better solution for our needs as we ride to the beach frequently. Keeps the weight low, which is important. Trek isn't quite as dumb as we think.

The really "dumb" thing was the COBI display. We pitched such a fit with Trek that they replaced them with Nyons that we love. Spec. is so much better than the COBI crap.

Overall, the Allant is built like a tank, has all the range we ever need, and we love them. Great, Great purchase for us.

Just last week brought all the batteries inside the house from the garage ... sad

Best!, Tim

 

[Sefutau2020]

I am the proud owner of both a 2023 Specialized Vado 4 and a 2023 Trek 8s, marking my second time owning these exact models. Previously, I had the 2022 versions of both bikes, which I adored but eventually sold to family members who couldn't afford new ones. The '22 Trek 8s, despite its quirky Cobi app, was a joy to ride with an impressive range in Eco mode—I could cover 100 miles on it, 55 miles in Tour, and seldom ventured into Sport or Turbo modes because they were unnecessary. The Trek 8s felt robust, providing a noticeable surge as it accelerated.

However, the '23 Trek 8s has been a letdown in terms of range. Despite identical conditions—same tires, gear, rider, and routes—I can only manage about 85 miles in Eco and 45 in Tour. This discrepancy perplexed the local bike shop (LBS), but with 3800 miles clocked, it has proven reliable. Switching the Cobi phone holder for the Kiox 300 greatly improved the experience. I also made the rack compatible with a traditional trunk bag using p-clamps and a MIK adapter.

My favorite is the Vado 4. In Eco mode, with a setting of 35/35, I achieve roughly 90 miles. The 35/35 setting delivers around 112% of motor support, surpassing the Trek's 60% setting in Eco. Although the Vado 4 doesn't feel as robust as the Trek, its speed is impressive. The bike responds naturally to increased pedaling effort. Comparing lap times using Garmin GPS's on both bikes, the Vado 4 in Sport (75/75 = 240%) mode matches the Trek 8s in Tour mode (140%). With features like front suspension, suspension seat post, TCM, and MIK rack, the Vado 4's $3250 price tag, which I paid a few months back, feels like a steal.

Conversely, the Trek 8s, even after the Kiox 300 upgrade and rack adapter, totaled $4850 (prior to Trek's sale), a $1600 difference. It lacks front suspension and a suspension seat post.

While I appreciate the Trek 8s for its speed, I can ride the Specialized in Sport mode all day, achieving 50 miles on a single charge while matching the lap times of the Trek's 85nm. I'd opt for the Trek only if I aimed to ride in Sport and Turbo modes continuously, transforming it into a moped-like, ridiculously powerful, and fast ride. Hope this sheds light on the comparison!

 

[BlackHand]

I am the proud owner of both a 2023 Specialized Vado 4 and a 2023 Trek 8s, marking my second time owning these exact models. Previously, I had the 2022 versions of both bikes, which I adored but eventually sold to family members who couldn't afford new ones. The '22 Trek 8s, despite its quirky Cobi app, was a joy to ride with an impressive range in Eco mode—I could cover 100 miles on it, 55 miles in Tour, and seldom ventured into Sport or Turbo modes because they were unnecessary. The Trek 8s felt robust, providing a noticeable surge as it accelerated.

However, the '23 Trek 8s has been a letdown in terms of range. Despite identical conditions—same tires, gear, rider, and routes—I can only manage about 85 miles in Eco and 45 in Tour. This discrepancy perplexed the local bike shop (LBS), but with 3800 miles clocked, it has proven reliable. Switching the Cobi phone holder for the Kiox 300 greatly improved the experience. I also made the rack compatible with a traditional trunk bag using p-clamps and a MIK adapter.

My favorite is the Vado 4. In Eco mode, with a setting of 35/35, I achieve roughly 90 miles. The 35/35 setting delivers around 112% of motor support, surpassing the Trek's 60% setting in Eco. Although the Vado 4 doesn't feel as robust as the Trek, its speed is impressive. The bike responds naturally to increased pedaling effort. Comparing lap times using Garmin GPS's on both bikes, the Vado 4 in Sport (75/75 = 240%) mode matches the Trek 8s in Tour mode (140%). With features like front suspension, suspension seat post, TCM, and MIK rack, the Vado 4's $3250 price tag, which I paid a few months back, feels like a steal.

Conversely, the Trek 8s, even after the Kiox 300 upgrade and rack adapter, totaled $4850 (prior to Trek's sale), a $1600 difference. It lacks front suspension and a suspension seat post.

While I appreciate the Trek 8s for its speed, I can ride the Specialized in Sport mode all day, achieving 50 miles on a single charge while matching the lap times of the Trek's 85nm. I'd opt for the Trek only if I aimed to ride in Sport and Turbo modes continuously, transforming it into a moped-like, ridiculously powerful, and fast ride. Hope this sheds light on the comparison!

Interesting. You're one of the few who've been able to compare smart system vs system 2 in the same/similar bikes. We know the drive unit is mechanically identical, but the mapping must be different in the 2 systems.

Even the Bosch range tool online lists 54 miles for a system 2 bike and 47 mile range for a smart system bike with all other variables the same. Your observed difference is a little bigger but not hugely. Also possible that Bosch increased the reserve power for lights/electronic shifting etc.

I think you xan tweak the assist settings in the smart system. Wouldn't surprise me if you could get much of that range back with little impact on how it feels to you.

 

[Sefutau2020]

Interesting. You're one of the few who've been able to compare smart system vs system 2 in the same/similar bikes. We know the drive unit is mechanically identical, but the mapping must be different in the 2 systems.

Even the Bosch range tool online lists 54 miles for a system 2 bike and 47 mile range for a smart system bike with all other variables the same. Your observed difference is a little bigger but not hugely. Also possible that Bosch increased the reserve power for lights/electronic shifting etc.

I think you xan tweak the assist settings in the smart system. Wouldn't surprise me if you could get much of that range back with little impact on how it feels to you.

Great observation....will have to look in to that a little more. I will say this, now that I think about it. The '22 Trek would stop support at 26.5 mph.....and a lot of other riders also noticed that. This bike pushes a little past 28mph. Lap times are pretty identical, but the range is definitely off. I put 4000 miles on the '22, so very familiar with how far I could go on a single charge. Thanks....

 

[Sefutau2020]

Both bikes have the Bosch Ebike System 2, so I suspect there is something else going on. Lately, the last two weeks, charging the battery to 100% is reached, but the next day when the bike is turned on, it reads 98%. On the way to the LBS. If this issue isn't resolved, I will be waiting on the Vado 5 NON-IGH, which according to Specialized, should finally be available online in early January 2024.

 

[BlackHand]

I see.

Switching the Cobi phone holder for the Kiox 300 greatly improved the experience.

I took this to mean that Trek had switched the '23 models over to the Smart System since the Kiox 300 is a Smart System only display. Sounds like you had the LBS swap out the COBI/smartphone hub for the Kiox (just Kiox, not Kiox 300). In that case yes I would have the LBS plug the battery into the Bosch sw for a diagnostic. My oldest battery will now sometimes drop to 98% if I charge and then fail to ride for a day.

If you still have access to your old 8S you could also swap batteries and see if the reduced range sticks with the bike or moves with the battery.