dblhelix
Well-Known Member
If things get a bit expensive due to anything from materials to legal counsel, I would be willing to contribute to your effort.
York County,Pa. USA YCP Bans all ebikes on local rail trail
- Thread starter Shoestring
- Start date
If things get a bit expensive due to anything from materials to legal counsel, I would be willing to contribute to your effort.
6zfshdb
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Northeast Pennsylvania
I ride the GAP and C&O trails as often as I can. I have never been turned away while on my ebike. Last season, a Ranger came by as I was unloading my ebike at the Hancock trailhead on the C&O. I made no attempt to hide the fact it was an ebike and he didn't ask. After some polite conversation, he left and I rode 33 miles up to Fifteen Mile Creek and back without incident. This tells me either the Ranger didn't know it was an ebike or he didn't care. either way, it bodes well for ebikers on that particular trail. I've had similar experiences at other federal parks.
I mentioned this in another post. I ran into a fellow ebiker who told me Rangers are loathe to turn away responsible riders due to lagging attendance in some National Parks & recreation areas. This may or may not be true but so far, my experience bears this out.
Mr. Coffee
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- A Demented Corner of the North Cascades
I think a lot of it is that the terminology in the regulations is confusing (and this is well-recognized). When most Park people think "e-bike" they envision an electric motorcycle, not a class I or class II electric bicycle. Also because of the confusing terminology and regulations there is a very real concern that if they actually ticket someone and that someone fights it (the ticket) in court they might lose and that could theoretically open up any bike path administered by NPS to any motorized vehicle.
In general as long as you are discreet, nobody complains, and you are courteous I doubt you are going to have many problems.
baxterblack
Member
Rode John Rudy park to Brillhart Station and return. No issues- did not notice if new signage.
Zilla
Member
Was out over the weekend and had no issues. Even saw some fellow ebikers from MD and had some great conversation with some inquisitive people and kids about ebikes. And headed back out now headed to the tunnel.
J.R.
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Piedmont Highlands
I mentioned earlier in this thread the positive experience we had at last months meeting of the York County Rail Trail Authority. A few days ago the Authority posted a statement on their website about the ebike issue.
"For questions related to the use of e-bikes or electrically-assisted mobility devices on the Heritage Rail Trail, please contact York County Department of Parks and Recreation at (717) 840-7440 or [email protected]. York County Rail Trail Authority does not manage or set rules/regulations for the use of the Heritage Rail Trail."
https://www.yorkcountytrails.org/statement-motorized-transportation-on-the-heritage-rail-trail/
Pressure must be mounting over the issue, for the Authority to feel the need to make this statement.
I see the trail everyday and there aren't any new signs and the rules haven't changed since 2017. The state classifies (essentially class 1 & 2) 20 mph, 750 watt ebikes as bicycles. The county cannot legally reclassify them as motor vehicles. They would have to pass new law or regulation to ban ebikes. To date they have not done that. The issue is making them understand that so ebikers aren't ever hassled. At this point in time I know of two ebikers that were kicked off the trail.
Please keep up the reports here. Thanks!
"For questions related to the use of e-bikes or electrically-assisted mobility devices on the Heritage Rail Trail, please contact York County Department of Parks and Recreation at (717) 840-7440 or [email protected]. York County Rail Trail Authority does not manage or set rules/regulations for the use of the Heritage Rail Trail."
https://www.yorkcountytrails.org/statement-motorized-transportation-on-the-heritage-rail-trail/
Pressure must be mounting over the issue, for the Authority to feel the need to make this statement.
I see the trail everyday and there aren't any new signs and the rules haven't changed since 2017. The state classifies (essentially class 1 & 2) 20 mph, 750 watt ebikes as bicycles. The county cannot legally reclassify them as motor vehicles. They would have to pass new law or regulation to ban ebikes. To date they have not done that. The issue is making them understand that so ebikers aren't ever hassled. At this point in time I know of two ebikers that were kicked off the trail.
Please keep up the reports here. Thanks!
dblhelix
Well-Known Member
MD-PA bike trails rule. We are so lucky.
J.R.
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Piedmont Highlands
You will be told ebikes aren't allowed on non motorized bike trails.
I respond by asking where in the regulations does it state ebikes are banned. They point to the section on motor vehicles (noted earlier in this thread). I respond referencing the state law that low speed electric bikes are classed as bicycles, governed by the same laws as all bikes in the state. The county cannot classify ebikes as motor vehicles, that is a state and federal regulatory issue. They can't lump ebikes in with motorcycles, scooters and mopeds. If they want to ban ebikes they have to pass new regulation to do so. That is a lengthy and far more public process, where people do have some say.
I'm not denying the letter, or the spirit of the law. We see poorly written laws all the time, but we know what the law means. That would be the spirit of the law. In this case low speed electric assist bikes aren't acknowledged in any way. To suggest motor vehicle laws apply doesn't make sense. I believe the federal regulations were passed in 2009 and the state's passed in 2014. If they meant to ban ebikes in 2017, they did a really poor job of understanding just what an ebike is, and a worse job of regulating them.
There has been some public pressure. Hopefully they'll see sense, otherwise someone will get a ticket one day.
Yes, this is exactly what I would expect to hear if I called and asked that question.
Can the York County Parks and Recreation Department just add a "no electric bikes" statement to their policy and hang signs on the trail if they choose to do so?
Scott Adams
Active Member
I hesitate to post without a contribution, but my hat's off to the forum members in this thread who are resolving this issue with patience, talent and grace. I hope it becomes a model for future ebike access issues.
J.R.
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Piedmont Highlands
My understanding is no, they cannot just add a ban. The Advisory Board and divisions within the parks department can propose regulation changes to the Board of County Commissioners, but it is the County Commissioners that approve and pass regulations. I think the 2017 revision took about a year to pass, and it was being worked on since the last revision in 2014.
This might offer insight on who can do what.
https://ecode360.com/11923781
WalkinTarget
Active Member
I've ridden it twice in the past week, last time was on Tuesday evening from 7p to 8:15p. Beautiful evening for a ride, and until I see a sign, I will continue to ride. I do have the added benefit of living close enough to the trail that I can ride to it from my house, so I do not have to stop nor park at a trailhead, hence why I have a bit more ability to avoid a ranger sitting in his vehicle policing a parking lot.
Zilla
Member
I have ridden the York Heritage Trail twice this week and the Lancaster River Trail last weekend during the day and havent seen any rangers.
I rode the Lancaster River trail last Sunday with a group. Never have seen any rangers on the trail, but did talk to local police in their car on the trail looking for a vehicle that was reported to be riding on it.
J.R.
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Piedmont Highlands
I rode the Heritage yesterday too. I live near the trail and most often I see rangers in the evening. They have a small SUV they drive on the trail, usually between 6 and 9 pm. Other times you see them are when events take place at New Freedom and Hanover Junction train stations. There aren't many rangers and they have more pressing duties at other park locations. I suspect the last thing they'd want to do is police mature ebikers.
J.R.
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Piedmont Highlands
The county may be easing their stance a bit on the issue of ebike use on park land. We've been told by a reliable source in the bike industry that the parks department will allow ebike use if the rider has a "doctor's note" stating the rider's need to use an ebike. I believe this is due to public pressure and the county not wanting to appear less than accessible to older and less than able riders.
A little daylight, but not enough. I have not contacted the parks department for first hand clarification on this new position. We will wait for the advisory board meeting in a few weeks to address this. A rider shouldn't have to spend money to visit a doctor to ride a legal ebike on a park trail.
Ebikes aren't the same as mobility devices and there isn't a special carve out in the law that allows the use of what the parks department considers a motor vehicle on the trails. Actually the law specifically states the opposite, it does allow the use of handicapped mobility devices, but not motorized vehicle use by handicapped persons. Either an ebike is a motor vehicle or it's not. Legally the county cannot class an ebike as a motor vehicle. But since they think ebikes are motor vehicles, how can they then say a doctor's note is all one needs to ride the trail.
<I'm going to get a doctor's note and ride the trail on my Harley
j/k>
In other news, I bumped into the parks volunteer group ride leader at a trail head when I was preparing for a ride. I mentioned this person in an earlier post. An uncomfortable moment I knew would happen one day. I took the opportunity to try and see just where he stood on the issue. I didn't gain much knowledge from the encounter. He said the parks department told him to make the public pronouncement on social media. That seems odd to ask a volunteer to post that. I suggested he should have said something to us personally. It wasn't as productive as I'd hoped.
Keep the faith, folks!
A little daylight, but not enough. I have not contacted the parks department for first hand clarification on this new position. We will wait for the advisory board meeting in a few weeks to address this. A rider shouldn't have to spend money to visit a doctor to ride a legal ebike on a park trail.
Ebikes aren't the same as mobility devices and there isn't a special carve out in the law that allows the use of what the parks department considers a motor vehicle on the trails. Actually the law specifically states the opposite, it does allow the use of handicapped mobility devices, but not motorized vehicle use by handicapped persons. Either an ebike is a motor vehicle or it's not. Legally the county cannot class an ebike as a motor vehicle. But since they think ebikes are motor vehicles, how can they then say a doctor's note is all one needs to ride the trail.
<I'm going to get a doctor's note and ride the trail on my Harley
j/k>In other news, I bumped into the parks volunteer group ride leader at a trail head when I was preparing for a ride. I mentioned this person in an earlier post. An uncomfortable moment I knew would happen one day. I took the opportunity to try and see just where he stood on the issue. I didn't gain much knowledge from the encounter. He said the parks department told him to make the public pronouncement on social media. That seems odd to ask a volunteer to post that. I suggested he should have said something to us personally. It wasn't as productive as I'd hoped.
Keep the faith, folks!
WalkinTarget
Active Member
I rode on both Thursday and yesterday, once south to Hanover Junction and then north to John Rudy park, and no signs. I did encounter a rider discussing bikes with other riders at Hanover Junction, and he was in fact just starting to explain ebikes to them as I rode into the lot. He was saying to them that he had heard they were trying to or already outlawing them on the trail, and then struck up a conversation with me after noticing my ride.
Still no signs, so I will continue to ride the trail, and always make sure I am doing my best to be an ambassador for the sport, and ebikes in particular.
