York County,Pa. USA YCP Bans all ebikes on local rail trail
- Thread starter Shoestring
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baxterblack
Member
Does anyone know the dude who rides the 28mph Haibike with full face helmet and padding - saw him around Regency Glen golf club toward Brillhart station, and is not a great ambassador for ebikes coexisting harmoniously in my opinion...
- Some states specifically define an ebike; it has to be pedaled. And the maximum speed the motor can assist is 20 mph. If you can go faster on your own power, like many roadies, then no problem.
- Another thought, in a few years how will you be able to visually tell the difference? As batteries and motors shrink who will be able to tell an ebike from a non ebike? Yes, we’re not there yet but soon.
- Another thought, in a few years how will you be able to visually tell the difference? As batteries and motors shrink who will be able to tell an ebike from a non ebike? Yes, we’re not there yet but soon.
'
I am planning on attending! It's tough getting there at 6pm as I come 81 to 83 which is a mess right now. I am hoping to do a ride there this Wednesday and may check out some other options to travel to that area.
J.R.
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- Piedmont Highlands
You'll be welcome! You will know us by the jerseys they sold us just before they kicked us out of the group
J.R.
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- Piedmont Highlands
The only time I've ever seen a full face helmet on the trail was in winter. Sorry to hear this. I'll keep an eye out for them.
I think a few of us will ride tomorrow evening, weather permitting.
Please ignore this if it turns out I am a fool sticking my nose in where it doesn't belong.
But it seems to me!
If the Park is arguing it is a matter of insurance coverage, then should not one ask how the insurance company (and its lawyers) are interpreting the key phrase "motorized vehicle". After all if it is a question of insurance coverage then it would be a question of law, and it would seem the insurance companies are bound be the legal definition of a "motorized vehicle" which, for the comments above exculdes e-bikes.
This counter point is premised on the notion insurance is a core problem, bearing in mind that the park bureaucrats maybe using insurance as a smoke screen for just wanting to be rid of e-bikes as being a hassle. Might sort this out with inquires as to whether the insurance company has contacted them about the problem, taken a position on it.
Hope this might helps.
gl
But it seems to me!
If the Park is arguing it is a matter of insurance coverage, then should not one ask how the insurance company (and its lawyers) are interpreting the key phrase "motorized vehicle". After all if it is a question of insurance coverage then it would be a question of law, and it would seem the insurance companies are bound be the legal definition of a "motorized vehicle" which, for the comments above exculdes e-bikes.
This counter point is premised on the notion insurance is a core problem, bearing in mind that the park bureaucrats maybe using insurance as a smoke screen for just wanting to be rid of e-bikes as being a hassle. Might sort this out with inquires as to whether the insurance company has contacted them about the problem, taken a position on it.
Hope this might helps.
gl
J.R.
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- USA
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- Piedmont Highlands
All suggestions are welcome and gratefully received. Funny you mention insurance, I've been wading through liabilities faced by land managers of trails, specifically trails in PA. Often governments self insure many things, but not necessarily parks and trails. An "off road" trail like this rail trail, the county appears to have very limited liability for injuries. It's almost an "enter at your own risk" type of situation, as long as they've done a reasonable job at management and limiting obvious dangers.Please ignore this if it turns out I am a fool sticking my nose in where it doesn't belong.
But it seems to me!
If the Park is arguing it is a matter of insurance coverage, then should not one ask how the insurance company (and its lawyers) are interpreting the key phrase "motorized vehicle". After all if it is a question of insurance coverage then it would be a question of law, and it would seem the insurance companies are bound be the legal definition of a "motorized vehicle" which, for the comments above exculdes e-bikes.
This counter point is premised on the notion insurance is a core problem, bearing in mind that the park bureaucrats maybe using insurance as a smoke screen for just wanting to be rid of e-bikes as being a hassle. Might sort this out with inquires as to whether the insurance company has contacted them about the problem, taken a position on it.
Hope this might helps.
gl
I think the key is to educate the board on just what a low power, legal pedal assisted bicycle is, as defined by state and federal regulations. If they still want to ban ebikes, they'll have to write and pass regulation to do so.
Zilla
Member
I plan on attending and bringing my bike.You'll be welcome! You will know us by the jerseys they sold us just before they kicked us out of the group
View attachment 35182
It may be possible that the board just doesn’t know what a model ebike consists of. This is the definition that our state statute uses. Can be googled:
Minnesota State statute 169.011
§Subd. 27.Electric-assisted bicycle.
(3) has an electric motor that (i) has a power output of not more than 1,000 watts, (ii) is incapable of propelling the vehicle at a speed of more than 20 miles per hour, (iii) is incapable of further increasing the speed of the device when human power alone is used to propel the vehicle at a speed of more than 20 miles per hour, and (iv) disengages or ceases to function when the vehicle's brakes are applied.
Basically, it’s 20 mph max. unless you can go faster on your own power.
Minnesota State statute 169.011
§Subd. 27.Electric-assisted bicycle.
(3) has an electric motor that (i) has a power output of not more than 1,000 watts, (ii) is incapable of propelling the vehicle at a speed of more than 20 miles per hour, (iii) is incapable of further increasing the speed of the device when human power alone is used to propel the vehicle at a speed of more than 20 miles per hour, and (iv) disengages or ceases to function when the vehicle's brakes are applied.
Basically, it’s 20 mph max. unless you can go faster on your own power.
Ahh, things are well in hand.
After all Black & Decker makes line trimmers that are more powerful (40 V.) than e-bikes. And who would outlaw weed whackers.
J.R.
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- USA
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- Piedmont Highlands
Good one! When we went to the Authority meeting I said that there are house fans more powerful than my 350 watt bike!
J.R.
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- Piedmont Highlands
I'll be bringing a bike as well. I'm not sure what to expect. I guess I'll leave it on the truck and hope they'll come out for some show and tell. I'm starting from the idea these are our friends and neighbors. That they like the same things I do and just want people to enjoy the public's resources. I hope that's all true and they're just misinformed.
baxterblack
Member
***** I really like the idea of also showing a 40v cordless grass trimmer to put into context the power assistance with class 1 ebikes and the "wall " that is hit at 20mph- and that most ebike ave speed is much less , and our ebikes mostly benefits our uphill rides vs blowing another trail users off the path. Frankly, I feel like ebikers are an asset to the safety of the trail because we stop and take a 2nd look at events on the path, whether it be a broken bike or a possible medical event, or potential vandalism .... We stop because we can get back momentum when others just cruise on by....
TaraBara
Active Member
I don't get this.... I have a class 1 Ebike. So many times my hubby on his dinosaur (reg.bike) is averaging 18mph to 26mph on his hybrid Trek. I sometimes go faster than he does but usually I am climbing hills at about 13mph when I pass him. When I go down hill the ONLY way I can keep up with him is if I coast because my motor literally fights me. I am just like any other bicycle on the trail motor or no motor as far as speed. I don't understand the stink. I guess the bottom line is Class 3 bicycles potentially probably go too fast for the liking of the law for most trails. I feel on my Class 1 Ebike I am actually safer than a dinosaur or Class 3 because I have more control of my bike. Ex..... going up hills and down hills I'm governed. I live in South Dakota so Class 1 is legal on our trails. I would be heart broken if they took this from me. I'm sorry for anyone who lives somewhere that Ebikes are banned. The only thing I could see a Class 3 being useful for would be commuting on the streets to compete with cars. Class 3 Ebikes are fun because they can go VERY fast but really I'm not sure they are safe on narrow bike paths at high speeds. Then again there are plenty of dinosaurs out of control going way to fast as well. So what is fair? For those claiming they don't go fast on their Class 3 Ebike.... why have the Class 3 Ebike at all unless you solely only street commute? Why not Class 1 or 2 that are governed at 20mph? What is wrong with that 20mph if you don't really go faster than that anyway? These are just questions.... I honestly don't have a strong opinion one way or another. I am very new to Ebiking and so these are just questions that come up in mind over Class 3 controversy? Also, I'm sorry if I offended anyone....as I said I'm new to all of this.
I purchased a full face Bell helmet last winter to use on my newly acquired electric unicycle. Since breaking my ankle in February, I am a bit hesitant to learn to ride the single wheel monstrosity. If people think e-bikes are dangerous, they should try riding an electric single wheel.
J.R.
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- Piedmont Highlands
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I broke my foot in January. You and I limping around, but still gettin' it done!
JayDeeBiker
New Member
I read with interest this thread yesterday. We got our Townie Electra e-bikes three years ago and were under the impression that we were able to use them anywhere a bike could be used. That was, until we rode the York Heritage Trail on May 21 this year. We live a couple of hours away so we planned to ride part of the trail one day, find a hotel to stay over, then ride another section the next day. We parked at Brillhart Station then had a great ride (loved the trail). When we got back to the parking lot, there was a park ranger waiting for us who said we were not allowed to use e-bikes on the trail. We tried to explain that they are pedal assist bikes and don’t have a throttle and the we usually go about 11mph. He said he would call his boss, just to make sure. He got back to us with a resounding “No e-bikes”. Needless to say, we packed up and left the York area. I didn’t even want to stop and get lunch. We’re both retired and love our e-bikes. I went online to the trail website and saw that all questions about e-bikes on the trail should sent to the parks department so I did send a letter to Tammy Klunk, asking that they reconsider their stance on e-bikes. I never received a response. I was so glad when I saw that this group is working to get e-bikes back on the trail. Because of the distance, we probably wouldn’t be able to attend the meeting, but let me know if there is any way we can help.
