York County,Pa. USA YCP Bans all ebikes on local rail trail

would one of the "Gang of Four"+ who can attend the meeting bring your class 1 ebike - for show and tell - The best case scenario here is for the decision to allow the policy to mirror polocies that have been approved elsewhere . Ft Collins CO is a good example to reference
Through some investigative work behind the scenes I've discovered a few things. More will be revealed on that front. I would love to offer test rides to the board of the parks department, and prior to today's discoveries I did consider bringing my 350 watt pedelec to the meeting. I'll leave the bike home tonight and go armed with my discoveries. This is a small group and a very small meeting place; we four will likely double the size of meeting. As it stands today these are our friends and neighbors, not apposing groups getting ready for battle. We want to educate and put a face and story to the issue. Hopefully we can arrange a show and ride for the bigger parks department board. Today is a day for friendship and information gathering for all parties. Glad-handing can go a long way.
 
Through some investigative work behind the scenes I've discovered a few things. More will be revealed on that front. I would love to offer test rides to the board of the parks department, and prior to today's discoveries I did consider bringing my 350 watt pedelec to the meeting. I'll leave the bike home tonight and go armed with my discoveries. This is a small group and a very small meeting place; we four will likely double the size of meeting. As it stands today these are our friends and neighbors, not apposing groups getting ready for battle. We want to educate and put a face and story to the issue. Hopefully we can arrange a show and ride for the bigger parks department board. Today is a day for friendship and information gathering for all parties. Glad-handing can go a long way.
 
Just rode from Brillhart Station to New Freedom. Saw no signs and have not seen anyone that has asked me to leave the trail yet! I will be making my return trip shortly.
 
The four of us local ebikers attended the Rail Trail Authority's May monthly meeting and as I suspected these board members were very nice, friendly neighbors. We were greeted warmly and invited to share about ourselves prior to the meeting. We have deep ties to the community and all have done volunteer work to one degree or another. We have a lot in common with the members of the board.

A little of the back story of ebiking in Pennsylvania. In 2014 ebikes were officially legalized here. Early for a U.S. state to specifically legalize modern ebikes. The law was simple: 750 watts, 20 MPH max speed, assist by PAS or throttle. Pretty much followed the Fed CPSC regs. Ebikes within those regs are not motorized vehicles, and can ride anywhere a bicycle can ride as of 2014. At the time every trail, path and road in the state where bikes can ride, ebikes were allowed and a local municipality that wanted to restrict them, they had to pass laws or regulation specifically to do so. The good old days.

We were off and riding! Our Heritage Rail Trail is a wonderful place to ride. A lot of history on those rails, which continues today. The four of us ebikers were members of the Sunset Scramblers, a weekly social ride during the warmer months of the year. There were a few off putting "jokes" made at our expense about "cheating", but 99% of the riders didn't care. Most often comments originated from one rider and sometimes his sidekick. It was a social event, not a competition in any way. Very often it was the ebiker that rode with the slow, less able rider to make sure they made it; or stopped to repair a bike, because we were willing to carry the tools. We had the spare water too. All was well, so we thought.

The first sign something might be wrong was last spring when one of our group of four was kicked out of a county park at the northern trail head by a Ranger. He said ebikes were banned in the park. After a little searching we found new park regulations were adopted the previous fall. The only thing that came close to describing an ebike was in the section for motor vehicles.

1558357459247.png

https://yorkcountypa.gov/images/pdf/Parks/2017_rules_and_reg_final1.pdf

We felt this did not apply to pedelecs, as they are not "self propelled". And since state law legalized ebikes to be considered bikes, allowed to ride anywhere bikes are allowed unless specifically excluded, we felt good to go.

Our concern today is that maybe the parks department thought they banned ebikes with these new regulations. Sure one could argue in court that the wording is incorrect if trying to ban pedelecs, but we all know what a pain that could be. If the Park Rangers are told to fine us, the fine is $800.00 and even if you choose to fight the ticket, that $800 has to be posted immediately as bail. You get it back if you win.

What has made this situation harder to take is it appears two riders from our weekly social ride are pushing this "ban", to the point of making public, official looking pronouncements on social media. We only have circumstantial evidence that those two are responsible for the current push, and I don't want a personal war with someone we thought was a friend. I believe we can and will win this fight. I don't believe park regulations "legally" ban ebikes. We'll fight the issue, not the people.

As for the Rail Trail Authority, they do not have control over park regulations, that's the Parks Department's purview. We did share out stories, concerns and views on the issue and they are in support of allowing class one ebikes. So supportive that the Authority Chairman said they will support us in this with the Parks Department Board. They want to be kept informed.

Thanks from us to this forum community for your support in this. We are working on our next move and will keep you informed.
 
The four of us local ebikers attended the Rail Trail Authority's May monthly meeting and as I suspected these board members were very nice, friendly neighbors. We were greeted warmly and invited to share about ourselves prior to the meeting. We have deep ties to the community and all have done volunteer work to one degree or another. We have a lot in common with the members of the board.

A little of the back story of ebiking in Pennsylvania. In 2014 ebikes were officially legalized here. Early for a U.S. state to specifically legalize modern ebikes. The law was simple: 750 watts, 20 MPH max speed, assist by PAS or throttle. Pretty much followed the Fed CPSC regs. Ebikes within those regs are not motorized vehicles, and can ride anywhere a bicycle can ride as of 2014. At the time every trail, path and road in the state where bikes can ride, ebikes were allowed and a local municipality that wanted to restrict them, they had to pass laws or regulation specifically to do so. The good old days.

We were off and riding! Our Heritage Rail Trail is a wonderful place to ride. A lot of history on those rails, which continues today. The four of us ebikers were members of the Sunset Scramblers, a weekly social ride during the warmer months of the year. There were a few off putting "jokes" made at our expense about "cheating", but 99% of the riders didn't care. Most often comments originated from one rider and sometimes his sidekick. It was a social event, not a competition in any way. Very often it was the ebiker that rode with the slow, less able rider to make sure they made it; or stopped to repair a bike, because we were willing to carry the tools. We had the spare water too. All was well, so we thought.

The first sign something might be wrong was last spring when one of our group of four was kicked out of a county park at the northern trail head by a Ranger. He said ebikes were banned in the park. After a little searching we found new park regulations were adopted the previous fall. The only thing that came close to describing an ebike was in the section for motor vehicles.

View attachment 33353
https://yorkcountypa.gov/images/pdf/Parks/2017_rules_and_reg_final1.pdf

We felt this did not apply to pedelecs, as they are not "self propelled". And since state law legalized ebikes to be considered bikes, allowed to ride anywhere bikes are allowed unless specifically excluded, we felt good to go.

Our concern today is that maybe the parks department thought they banned ebikes with these new regulations. Sure one could argue in court that the wording is incorrect if trying to ban pedelecs, but we all know what a pain that could be. If the Park Rangers are told to fine us, the fine is $800.00 and even if you choose to fight the ticket, that $800 has to be posted immediately as bail. You get it back if you win.

What has made this situation harder to take is it appears two riders from our weekly social ride are pushing this "ban", to the point of making public, official looking pronouncements on social media. We only have circumstantial evidence that those two are responsible for the current push, and I don't want a personal war with someone we thought was a friend. I believe we can and will win this fight. I don't believe park regulations "legally" ban ebikes. We'll fight the issue, not the people.

As for the Rail Trail Authority, they do not have control over park regulations, that's the Parks Department's purview. We did share out stories, concerns and views on the issue and they are in support of allowing class one ebikes. So supportive that the Authority Chairman said they will support us in this with the Parks Department Board. They want to be kept informed.

Thanks from us to this forum community for your support in this. We are working on our next move and will keep you informed.
 
Thank you for the update.

Any feedback from the person that reached out to you as a courtesy of your volunteer contributions to the heritage RT?

It seems like what you were told on that call is incorrect or should inquiries be made at the county level?
 
Thank you for the update.

Any feedback from the person that reached out to you as a courtesy of your volunteer contributions to the heritage RT?

It seems like what you were told on that call is incorrect or should inquiries be made at the county level?
We will be attending the June advisory board meeting. That's where decisions are made for these issues. I hope to have more to share later this week.
 
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We are in the press! It's not me in the video, and to preserve some privacy for the EBR member I won't reveal who it is. He can if he chooses.

Good luck with your campaign, it looks a nice trail to ride. FYI the YDR interview article has the interviewees name but I expect you mean you won't reveal his EBR handle.
 
Glad EBR members like @J.R. et al are making a difference in their county and district.

In many places, it is those who have never ridden a eBike that have the power to legislate it.
People who have never ridden eBikes making decision is like men making decisions on women's reproductive rights. Makes absolutely no sense!
 
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I understand if you want to remain anonymous, but you do a great job of making the case for eBikes in the video. Thanks for your efforts and I hope you prevail in changing this bad decision.
 
Thanks all! We did discuss posting the article. We know anonymity in this is going to be impossible. I use my real initials as a screen name and have since the '90's on AOL. Just habbit I guess.

We will be writing a formal proposal to the Parks Advisory Board and hope to be able to present it in June. The slow pace of government likely means the trail is off limits for this year.

If there are any other EBR members that are local or Pennsylvania residents, feel free to send me a private message through this forum.
 
Excellent article!
Sounds like none of the rail trails in the area are legal to ride?
I guess my choice is stop riding or just keep breaking the law:):):).
 
Excellent article!
Sounds like none of the rail trails in the area are legal to ride?
I guess my choice is stop riding or just keep breaking the law:):):).
I wouldn't take the comment on Lancaster and Dauphin trails as gospel. They think "no motor vehicle" regs apply to ebikes. In this instance state law supersedes, and local municipalities cannot reclass low speed ebikes as motor vehicles. Only the state legislature through Penn DOT can do that. That comment justifies the park's decision, with nothing in the law to show us ebikes are excluded in any of the three counties. They obviously don't understand what an ebike is. We hope to educate them. My worst fear, once educated on what an ebike is, that new local regulations are put in place that do exclude class 1, 2 and 3 ebikes. Hopefully cooler heads prevail.
 
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Excellent article!
Sounds like none of the rail trails in the area are legal to ride?
I guess my choice is stop riding or just keep breaking the law:):):).
We have yet to see a sign indicating the ban on the trail system. Now it's not like I want to go searching for a ranger to see if he's going to nail me, but until I see a sign prohibiting my use of this trail, I intend to continue to ride. Funny thing is, about a month ago I had a group ride with the Tuesday evening group and there was a ranger on-site who I rode with last year. I offered him a ride on my ebike and he was all smiles. He had no problem at all with it.
 
We have yet to see a sign indicating the ban on the trail system. Now it's not like I want to go searching for a ranger to see if he's going to nail me, but until I see a sign prohibiting my use of this trail, I intend to continue to ride. Funny thing is, about a month ago I had a group ride with the Tuesday evening group and there was a ranger on-site who I rode with last year. I offered him a ride on my ebike and he was all smiles. He had no problem at all with it.

I ride the trail 3-4 times a week and have yet to see any EBikes Prohibited signage nor a Ranger that will give you any trouble. I spoke with Tammy Klunk via phone and we had a debate about ebikes. She told me the ebikes are considered motor vehicles and it falls under the motor vehicle section of the trail rules. I tried to explain to her my fat tire pedal assist ebike is NOT a motorized vehicle. And she also told me people ride them recklessly and the rail trail is family orientated. I replied most of the people I have ever seen ride ebikes are 50+ crowd. Ive seen more speed racers with road bikes ride recklessly on the trail. Long story short is, I was getting nowhere and more frustrated. Basically the vibe I get from York County is every County around us has prohibited ebikes so we should too. I was also was told her office gets alot of complaints about ebikes. She asked if I wanted to file a complaint. I filed a complaint with her office that ebikes should be allowed and if there have been no accidents reported to her office ever, how can they ban something that has never happened? I also followed up with a lengthly phone call to our Senator Mrs Kristen Phillips Hill's office who is looking into this as well. I explained to her office the economic impact this could have on the small towns and local businesses. Hope to hear something back soon.
 
I ride the trail 3-4 times a week and have yet to see any EBikes Prohibited signage nor a Ranger that will give you any trouble. I spoke with Tammy Klunk via phone and we had a debate about ebikes. She told me the ebikes are considered motor vehicles and it falls under the motor vehicle section of the trail rules. I tried to explain to her my fat tire pedal assist ebike is NOT a motorized vehicle. And she also told me people ride them recklessly and the rail trail is family orientated. I replied most of the people I have ever seen ride ebikes are 50+ crowd. Ive seen more speed racers with road bikes ride recklessly on the trail. Long story short is, I was getting nowhere and more frustrated. Basically the vibe I get from York County is every County around us has prohibited ebikes so we should too. I was also was told her office gets alot of complaints about ebikes. She asked if I wanted to file a complaint. I filed a complaint with her office that ebikes should be allowed and if there have been no accidents reported to her office ever, how can they ban something that has never happened? I also followed up with a lengthly phone call to our Senator Mrs Kristen Phillips Hill's office who is looking into this as well. I explained to her office the economic impact this could have on the small towns and local businesses. Hope to hear something back soon.
Here in Western Pennsylvania I’ve had no issues on any urban (Pittsburgh) or regional rail trails. At the start of the GAP trail, from Pittsburgh to D.C. the city of Pittsburgh has a 15mph speed limit for all bicycles. From my experience the riders who exceed 15mph are the road bikers. Instead of he says, he says why doesn’t York County do a real survey, set up a camera and speed sensor and see who actually rides recklessly on the path. I’ll try to post a photo of Pittsburgh speed limit sign.
 
I ride the trail 3-4 times a week and have yet to see any EBikes Prohibited signage nor a Ranger that will give you any trouble. I spoke with Tammy Klunk via phone and we had a debate about ebikes. She told me the ebikes are considered motor vehicles and it falls under the motor vehicle section of the trail rules. I tried to explain to her my fat tire pedal assist ebike is NOT a motorized vehicle. And she also told me people ride them recklessly and the rail trail is family orientated. I replied most of the people I have ever seen ride ebikes are 50+ crowd. Ive seen more speed racers with road bikes ride recklessly on the trail. Long story short is, I was getting nowhere and more frustrated. Basically the vibe I get from York County is every County around us has prohibited ebikes so we should too. I was also was told her office gets alot of complaints about ebikes. She asked if I wanted to file a complaint. I filed a complaint with her office that ebikes should be allowed and if there have been no accidents reported to her office ever, how can they ban something that has never happened? I also followed up with a lengthly phone call to our Senator Mrs Kristen Phillips Hill's office who is looking into this as well. I explained to her office the economic impact this could have on the small towns and local businesses. Hope to hear something back soon.
I would make an educated guess that some of these issues might be happening around York city. I'm sure it's probably the younger urban types that are also causing havoc on the streets with ATV's and dirt bikes. I am also an avid ATV and UTV owner that rides legally and this stuff makes my blood boil!
Why is it so difficult to just punish the guilty and leave the rest of us alone?
I, like many others in this group ride an e-bike not by choice, but necessity.
It was really exciting to me when I found my first electric bike a few years ago and was able to ride again. Recently I find myself looking over my shoulder while riding to see if I am being chased for breaking the law.
If I can be of any help in your pursuit of keeping the Heritage Trail e-bike friendly please contact me!
 
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