Why Do E-bikes Get More Flats Than Motorcycles?

[6zfshdb]

In my younger years, I logged hundreds of thousands of miles on the seven different motorcycles I've owned. From a 125CC Ducati to a BSA 650 Lightning, on roads, trails, dirt tracks, scrambles & TT racing, I never had a flat. In 6000 miles on my e-bike, under far less demanding circumstances, I've had 6 flats so far.

Sure, motorcycle tires are designed to a much higher standard than e-bike tires. They have to be, since a flat on a motorcycle is often fatal and fixing one on the road is next to impossible. Yes, in general, motorcycle tires have a larger profile on wider rims but they also carry more weight at higher speeds. Why aren't e-bike tires designed to the same standard? I for one, would be willing to pay a significant premium for such a tire.

In the good old days, any kid on his Schwinn could easily patch a tire. It was a rite of passage. Not so with many e-bikes today. For the most part, e-bikes are using simple, old school, bicycle tire technology. Yes, there are some on the market, like the Schwalbe Marathons, that have better flat resistance but IMO, more improvement is necessary.

 

[BillP]

In my younger years, I logged hundreds of thousands of miles on the seven different motorcycles I've owned. From a 125CC Ducati to a BSA 650 Lightning, on roads, trails, dirt tracks, scrambles & TT racing, I never had a flat. In 6000 miles on my e-bike, under far less demanding circumstances, I've had 6 flats so far.

Sure, motorcycle tires are designed to a much higher standard than e-bike tires. They have to be, since a flat on a motorcycle is often fatal and fixing one on the road is next to impossible. Yes, in general, motorcycle tires have a larger profile on wider rims but they also carry more weight at higher speeds. Why aren't e-bike tires designed to the same standard? I for one, would be willing to pay a significant premium for such a tire.

In the good old days, any kid on his Schwinn could easily patch a tire. It was a rite of passage. Not so with many e-bikes today. For the most part, e-bikes are using simple, old school, bicycle tire technology. Yes, there are some on the market, like the Schwalbe Marathons, that have better flat resistance but IMO, more improvement is necessary.

Think of where you are riding your bike compared to the motorcycle. If on the roads, the right side of the road is where all the junk accumulates from cars that force it to the right. I'm always dodging rocks, glass, excess salt in the winter, sand and everything else.

 

[AHicks]

In my younger years, I logged hundreds of thousands of miles on the seven different motorcycles I've owned. From a 125CC Ducati to a BSA 650 Lightning, on roads, trails, dirt tracks, scrambles & TT racing, I never had a flat. In 6000 miles on my e-bike, under far less demanding circumstances, I've had 6 flats so far.

Sure, motorcycle tires are designed to a much higher standard than e-bike tires. They have to be, since a flat on a motorcycle is often fatal and fixing one on the road is next to impossible. Yes, in general, motorcycle tires have a larger profile on wider rims but they also carry more weight at higher speeds. Why aren't e-bike tires designed to the same standard? I for one, would be willing to pay a significant premium for such a tire.

In the good old days, any kid on his Schwinn could easily patch a tire. It was a rite of passage. Not so with many e-bikes today. For the most part, e-bikes are using simple, old school, bicycle tire technology. Yes, there are some on the market, like the Schwalbe Marathons, that have better flat resistance but IMO, more improvement is necessary.

My thought would be the thickness of the tread on the motorcycle tires, and possibly the hardness of the rubber used, is why they don't get as many flats. Bicycle tires don't need the speed rating the motorcycle tires need is another thought. Motorcycles tires are also pretty heavy as compared to the average bike tire as well (lbs vs. just a few oz's)

I agree though. I've had motorcycles what, like over 50 years, on and off road, and can count the number of flats I've had on one hand....

 

[Gionnirocket]

Since switching to the Kenda Kwick Drumlin +5000mi ago, I haven't had a flat. Before then my experience was similar to yours. ymmv

 

[6zfshdb]

Think of where you are riding your bike compared to the motorcycle. If on the roads, the right side of the road is where all the junk accumulates from cars that force it to the right. I'm always dodging rocks, glass, excess salt in the winter, sand and everything else.

This is very true but 90% of the riding I do is off road.

 

[ChezCheese:)]

I'm not going to say that I have never had a flat on any two-wheeled vehicle, because that would jinx it, and so I'm not saying it.

Just sayin'.

 

[Art Deco]

In my younger years, I logged hundreds of thousands of miles on the seven different motorcycles I've owned. From a 125CC Ducati to a BSA 650 Lightning, on roads, trails, dirt tracks, scrambles & TT racing, I never had a flat. In 6000 miles on my e-bike, under far less demanding circumstances, I've had 6 flats so far.

Sure, motorcycle tires are designed to a much higher standard than e-bike tires. They have to be, since a flat on a motorcycle is often fatal and fixing one on the road is next to impossible. Yes, in general, motorcycle tires have a larger profile on wider rims but they also carry more weight at higher speeds. Why aren't e-bike tires designed to the same standard? I for one, would be willing to pay a significant premium for such a tire.

In the good old days, any kid on his Schwinn could easily patch a tire. It was a rite of passage. Not so with many e-bikes today. For the most part, e-bikes are using simple, old school, bicycle tire technology. Yes, there are some on the market, like the Schwalbe Marathons, that have better flat resistance but IMO, more improvement is necessary.

I've wondered about the flat issues, too. The few older people I know that still ride conventional bikes recreationaly seem to have their bikes down for a few days because of flats often, and they seem to think that is normal.
Perhaps it's because folks think of bikes as toys rather than transportation ?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Why Do E-bikes Get More Flats Than Motorcycles?​

If you wanted a bike to be equipped with as durable tyres as the motorcycles have, you should accept a bike of a motorcycle weight.

 

[Gionnirocket]

In my younger years, I logged hundreds of thousands of miles on the seven different motorcycles I've owned. From a 125CC Ducati to a BSA 650 Lightning, on roads, trails, dirt tracks, scrambles & TT racing, I never had a flat. In 6000 miles on my e-bike, under far less demanding circumstances, I've had 6 flats so far.

Sure, motorcycle tires are designed to a much higher standard than e-bike tires. They have to be, since a flat on a motorcycle is often fatal and fixing one on the road is next to impossible. Yes, in general, motorcycle tires have a larger profile on wider rims but they also carry more weight at higher speeds. Why aren't e-bike tires designed to the same standard? I for one, would be willing to pay a significant premium for such a tire.

In the good old days, any kid on his Schwinn could easily patch a tire. It was a rite of passage. Not so with many e-bikes today. For the most part, e-bikes are using simple, old school, bicycle tire technology. Yes, there are some on the market, like the Schwalbe Marathons, that have better flat resistance but IMO, more improvement is necessary.

Curious... do you have a typical cause of flats?
Have you tried adding anti_thorn strips?

 

[m@Robertson]

Its simply that motorcycles have thicker tires. In the DIY world, the more motorcycle-y builds that are reaching higher speeds often use 'moped' spec tires (and wheels) which are effectively light motorcycle tires. They are thick suckers able to laugh at goat heads, where bicycle tires of all stripes shriek in terror.

However... I am getting no flats and haven't in months. Its usually a combined effort between a sealant, a thick inner tube, Tannus and a belted tire (layers, Donkey!), or if the tire isn't belted, do all that stuff and add your own (Tuffy). OR if your tire set is tubeless, just use a badass sealant (FlatOut) that can seal stuff no matter what it is so long as the tire casing holds its integrity.

The distinction between recreational riding and daily utility riding was mentioned, and that cannot be overstated when it comes to reliability. Recreational riders are much more willing to make sacrifices for weight because they don't actually need to get somewhere on a schedule, or depend on the ride for a reason other than they prefer not to walk home. They've got the time to sit on a rock and fix a flat because they are riding during leisure time.

Utility riders on the other hand have to get somewhere important, on a schedule, and so you see some pretty bombproof setups and riders who will tell you they have gone for thousands and thousands of kilometers without any flats whatsoever. But they've got some pretty heavy wheels as a result.

Schwalbe Marathon Plus - pretty much what the majority of the cargo bike community rides. This is the tour version I put on for the winter and it also has a nicely increased load capacity over the standard Marathon Plus I use for three seasons of the year. An oversized thornproof tube is underneath with a full load of Flatout inside. No flats since I built the bike over a year ago.

Continental Contact City Plus - a cheaper Marathon Plus clone from Conti. Super thick belt inside of it. Thornproof tube with Flatout inside, again. No flats since it was built in October of 2019. This pic was taken a couple of weeks ago and I'm temporarily back to my original wheels due to a broken spoke....

When that spoke gets fixed, I will be using these again: Thin but poofy/comfy Vee Speedster 26x2.8's. No flat protection in the tire, but underneath: Tuffy XL, then under that, Tannus Armour 2.5" (a little undersized), under that a thornproof tube (35 psi tops) and inside the tube, Flatout. And again... no flats on this bike since 2019. The Tannus will be a new addition that I'll be adding for the first time on this wheelset.

If you want reliable, you can have it. But you can't just ride the bike and cross your fingers. You have to put in some effort and $.

(e?)Bike Flat Prevention

As a daily rider for decades, I have some thoughts on this subject. Mostly along the lines of “no flats allowed, ever”.

talesontwowheels.com

 

[AHicks]

Would just like to mention, unless you are REALLY (incredibly) unlucky, a long string of flats in your past IS something you can do do something about. Don't just keep fixing them and continuing on as you were before. Nothing is going to change, unless YOU do something differently! Try a different set up! There's at least a half dozen mentioned here alone....

I would proceed with easy (and cheap) stuff first. Get some flat preventer in your tires. I like Slime because everyone knows what it is, it's available everywhere, it's easy to install, it's cheap, and it WORKS, way better than having no protection!

 

[mjeds]

very simple explanation.

bikes are ridden on the far right (or left in some countries) of the road, the movement of traffic over the lanes couple with airflow move the majority of the debris to the sides of the road.
motorcycles typically travel in the center of the road with cars.
since there is far more debris on the sides of the road, there is far more opportunity for cyclists to get crap in their tires.

In CA where I live, motorcycles can ride in the HOV lanes, and lane split. motorcyclist that do so typically find they get more flat tires than rider like myself that maintain my motorcycle in the normal lanes and stay away from the edges.

just take a look around you when you are driving/riding look at the sides of the roads, all the litter, trash, crap that people throw out of, or accidently fall off of their vehicles litters the sides of the road. city streets and highways alike.

 

[chunk]

Spoon on a M/C tire and a bicycle tire, and the reason will be immediately obvious. I did my e-bike tire with just my hands, no spoons needed.

 

[PDoz]

In my younger years, I logged hundreds of thousands of miles on the seven different motorcycles I've owned. From a 125CC Ducati to a BSA 650 Lightning, on roads, trails, dirt tracks, scrambles & TT racing, I never had a flat. In 6000 miles on my e-bike, under far less demanding circumstances, I've had 6 flats so far.

I'd like the challenge the " less demanding circumstances " concept.

You're riding an ebike on normal bike tyres - so already way above the weight / performance those tyres were designed for . PLUS you ARE more adventurous than the average user - what proportion of cyclists cover as many miles as you in the conditions you travel?

Since my morning coffee hasn't kicked in yet.....

Back in the day, we regularly got 2/3 punctures on our motorbikes each ride . We were a group of 5/6 and dirt bike riding twice a week through the same country I currently ride my emtb . Admittedly one of that group had been a national champion, and those trails are considered black runs on mountain bikes....punching the numbers, that comes in around 1 flat every 500 km of extreme motorbike riding.

I'm not an extreme mountain bike rider but am comfortable doing black runs, realistically my emtb use is closer to the ADV type of motorbike riding I also enjoyed - scenic but adventurous travel. When ADV riding, I'd score a flat about every 2 week trip (3-6000 km of dessert travel) . That comes close to what I get on the emtb.

 

[mschwett]

i have often wondered about this and the very short lifespan of bicycle disc brake rotors.

heavy ebike, heavy rider, higher rates of acceleration, less "careful" riding through varied terrain = lots of flats on traditional bike tube and tire. my personal experience is that my commuter eBike, which is much heavier, with heavier load (me + kid or cargo) with wider tubed tires which i ride for utility purposes whenever and wherever i need to gets more flats than my electric road bike, which is light, has narrower tubeless tires, and i ride for fun, where i'm more mindful and engaged of the surface i'm riding on. i've actually gotten no flats at all on that bike, 5,000 plus miles in the last year, knock on wood!!

i assume the reason the rotors don't last long is simply that they're extremely light relative to the braking loads. it would be interesting to know what the penalty in rotating mass would be for something that lasted as long as a car's rotors, way into the 50,000+ mile range.

 

[m@Robertson]

PLUS you ARE more adventurous than the average user - what proportion of cyclists cover as many miles as you in the conditions you travel?

HAH! I hadn't even noticed the six flats in six THOUSAND miles part!

 

[m@Robertson]

i assume the reason the rotors don't last long is simply that they're extremely light relative to the braking loads. it would be interesting to know what the penalty in rotating mass would be for something that lasted as long as a car's rotors, way into the 50,000+ mile range.

I use Tektro downhill rotors - they have wised up and are now marketing them as ebike rotors - and these suckers are 2.3mm thick vs. the usual 1.8mm rotor... even the thicker Maguras are 'only' 2.0mm. If your calipers can take them (only Magura and some Tektros as far as I know) these are the very best for longevity and performance on any bicycle shaped object. I have yet to wear out even one of them and I have them on most of my bikes now. I think I have one down to just over 2.0mm, and on Magura brakes they are good to 1.80 before the caliper considers them worn out.

 

[indianajo]

The last street bike tire, OEM on my bike, got a flat @ 700 miles. I converted to the thick knobby off road tires from Kenda & Giant, and get <1 flat per 2000 miles (year) . These are $26 a lot cheaper than schalbe marathons. I just have to keep the knobs thicker than 3/32". I ride on the right, where all the trash is: As required in my state. I don't use slime, liners, extra belts, special tubes, anything. I use $7 schwinn tubes from the grocery because it takes 2 1/2 hours to go over & get the $8 ******ese giant tubes at the "local" bike shop. Last 2 "slime" brand tubes plugged up the stem where I couldn't get air in them after a couple of years. Had to cut the stem when I changed the worn out tire. No more slime.
For some perspective on why bike street tires are so thin, I rode to church at 11 deg F Sunday. I was sweating, down to 4 mph, couldn't get out of low 4th gear. I usually hit 5th and sometimes 6th (32 front sprocket). The wind was 9 mph. Was almost as bad with the wind behind me on the way home as it was in front. I thought there was trash in the brake caliper or something. When the temperature got up to 40 F 2 days later, the bike was fine. Bottom line, thick tires are stiff in the cold. Most riders wouldn't put up with the drag. **** most riders ride 22 mm tires instead of 57 mm because of the drag of even the fatter thin tires, in warm conditions. Battery is off for winter, in the garage under a heat pad.
BTW I'm 8000 miles into Tectro 160 mm rotors and they are showing no wear. I did wear out a front set of pads once. I carry 60-80 lb cargo frequently on 94 lb of bike but I don't brake heavily on downhills. I use the momentum to get me up the next hill.

 

[mschwett]

I use Tektro downhill rotors - they have wised up and are now marketing them as ebike rotors - and these suckers are 2.3mm thick vs. the usual 1.8mm rotor... even the thicker Maguras are 'only' 2.0mm. If your calipers can take them (only Magura and some Tektros as far as I know) these are the very best for longevity and performance on any bicycle shaped object. I have yet to wear out even one of them and I have them on most of my bikes now. I think I have one down to just over 2.0mm, and on Magura brakes they are good to 1.80 before the caliper considers them worn out.

i don't think standard road bike calipers will take the 2.3mm rotors, although there are some which fit the shimano centerlock! i toasted the standard 1.8mm in a couple thousand miles, not terrible, but not great. the demise was accelerated by the second or third set of pads being absolutely totally shot, which then ruined a rotor. i suppose i should amend my question/statement/complaint to reflect that it's really the PADS which are the least durable part of the system.

i guess i'm also really hard on brake, i routinely descend 500+ feet in a couple minutes at 40+ mph, and am not particularly lightweight. a lot of bikes don't see much braking beyond rolling to a stop at a red or stop sign from 20mph on level ground.

 

[6zfshdb]

Many valid points have been made in this thread and thanks for all the input. I should also add that I did change to Marathon Plus tires with thorn resistant tubes & Tannus Armour and have had no flats since. This is a modification I chose to make out of necessity. An e-bike is a cross between a bicycle and a motorcycle. Why are they shipped with OEM tires designed for a bicycle?

The subject of flats is discussed FAR less on motorcycle forums than it is here and on other e-bike forums. That in itself should be enough to indicate a problem.