Were You Moving Away From E-Bikes, What Traditional Bicycle Would You Buy?

[Captain Slow]

Can I presume you are a lightweight person?

Back when I started cycling to work I was about 190 lbs, and riding to work about 3 days a week on average got me down to about 172 lbs. Then I got an ebike that allowed me to ride 5 days a week and that got me to about 165 lbs.

Then a diabetes diagnosis and a change in diet got me to about 157 lbs. The pandemic hit and then I was racing on Zwift about 4 to 5 days a week and those efforts were brutally hard. I wasn't trying to lose weight but the intense efforts resulted in my weight dropping to 147 lbs, and at that weight my FTP was in the range of 3.2 to 3.5 watts/kg. Since then I went off Zwift and put weight back on and I'm around 158 lbs now.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

My contribution is 100W in this case, exactly the same contribution I will do on regular bike, but riding way way slower. I am not gaining/loosing any noticeable amount of watts when I switch bikes.

That is what @mschwett said: A human body is limited by its own performance, and it does not depend on being assisted or unassisted. Only the word "contribution" is tricky here. Your contribution is the same but the contribution % into the ride is 100% on a traditional bike while it is (far) less than 100% on an e-bike. Meaning, your kcal burnt only depend on the pedalling time. You can only get more workout if you are pedalling really hard and/or your ride takes considerable number of pedalling hours

This is the point. The torque sensor does the scaling of your effort, but won't work instead of you. So you can build your fitness on ebike as good as on regular bike. And be faster / ride further off course!

Yes you can. There's even an interesting phenomenon: if I ride in Turbo mode, I'm trying to squeeze as much speed out of the e-bike as possible, so I work harder! Only such a ride cannot last for long.

The weak point about e-bikes in their workout role is they make you lazy Rough riding surface (gravel, dirt), headwind or hills only require you to increase the assistance to keep at the speed. Try to ride your e-bike unassisted up an overpass and you will realise how hard it is... Whenever you need to face additional resistances on a traditional bike, you are trying harder to stay at a reasonable speed...

158 lbs

Let me convert it to kg for better understanding. You weight is around 70 kg.

• A full power e-bike, 26 kg. Total system weight 70 + 26 = 96 kg.
• An ultralightweight road bike, 6.5 kg. Total system weight is 76.5 kg.

The Aethos + you total weight is around 80% of the Vado + you. You actually gain 20% for climbs and acceleration riding the Aethos compared to something like a Vado. In my case (96 kg in full cycling clothes and a helmet), I would only gain 16% between the Vado and the Aethos.

Yes, riding an ultralightweight bike is a lot of fun but if we compare an e-bike with a lightweight traditional bicycle, the gain for me in favour of the trad bike would be:

• Able to lift and carry the bicycle
• Good handling in rough terrain
• No range anxiety
• Treated as a competing cyclist.

(I know, I'm repeating myself!)
Otherwise, a traditional lightweight bike can offer me nothing an e-bike could not compensate with its motor

 

[ava1ar]

The weak point about e-bikes in their workout role is they make you lazy

You probably, but not me
I would not ride regular bike as much as I do for ebike for one simple reason - it is too slow. While I enjoy cycling as it is, I use my ebike for commute (~60% of my rides are commute) and run errands (I am one of those non-typical Americans who doesn't own the car) and it works well mostly because of great speed/enjoyment/reachability ratio. If it would be not a Class 3 ebike, most of rides I am doing now would not be feasible due to being too long (I can't spend 1.5 hours to commute one way, but I can easily spend 45-50 minutes or i.e. my ride to hardware store 10 miles away should not become a half-day trip). I have regular bike and was riding places before, but my real cycling life started after purchasing the ebike in 2021 - since then I rode about 6000 miles and enjoyed every moment of these rides. I would not do even close to this on my regular bike.
So, no Stefan, e-bikes make me very motivating! Unlike the regular bikes. And the key factor of this motivation is a super granular control the torque-sensing bike gives to me regarding the effort/speed/distance I need/want for every particular ride!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

So, no Stefan, e-bikes make me very motivating! Unlike the regular bikes. And the key factor of this motivation is a super granular control the torque-sensing bike gives to me regarding the effort/speed/distance I need/want to cover.

We are all e-bikers here anyway I think any of us has good reasons to appreciate the e-bike!

I have regular bike and was riding places before, but my real cycling life started after purchasing the ebike in 2021 - since then I rode about 6000 miles and enjoyed every moment of these rides. I would not do even close to this on my regular bike.

I do totally agree. My yearly mileage would not be that high without an e-bike!

I would not ride regular bike as much as I do for ebike for one simple reason - it is too slow. While I enjoy cycling as it is, I use my ebike for commute (~60% of my rides are commute) and run errands (I am one of those non-typical Americans who doesn't own the car) and it works well mostly because of great speed/enjoyment/reachability ratio. If it would not Class 3 ebike, most of rides I am doing now would not be feasible due to being too long (I can't spend 1.5 hours to commute one way, but I can easily spend 45-50 minutes or i.e. my ride to hardware store 10 miles away should not become a half-day trip)

I realise the distances in the United States are measured in the ride time not miles* That is, your distances to cover are big. I'm just saying a typical e-biker does anything not to sweat on the ride

----------------
*) Just watched the movie by title "Reptile" on Netflix. 'How far is this?' -- 'Forty-five minutes'

 

[AvalancheRun]

I've always seen exercise as almost purely a test of mental patience. My brain will allow me to run for 30 minutes three times a week (if that!), bike for one hour three times a week, ebike for two hours every single day, and hit things with racquets until my hands fall off. I know running is one of the best ways to get a workout, but I just can't not hate it the whole time. Whatever gets you out consistently is the best imo.

Anyways, looks like Specialized is running a sale on gravel bikes right now but so few Diverge models are available in my area. Anyone have tips on making the most of tests/demos? Almost ready to just limit myself to Trek because they make their bikes so readily available.

 

[BigNerd]

Did not read this entire thread but after I got my ebike I thought that maybe if I got lighter non ebike (I was using a mountain bike for paved trails riding) it would be better. It was fine for a while but any rides that had some inclines or were over 20 miles made me switch to my ebike.

So I ended up getting a lighter, lower powered ebike and it seems to be a good balance. Still a hub drive but the torque sensor makes me work more (esp up hills) and I feel like I'm getting a better workout. I still wonder how those road bikers can go so fast on non ebikes... some magic gearing or they must only weigh 5 lbs.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I still wonder how those road bikers can go so fast on non ebikes... some magic gearing or they must only weigh 5 lbs.

If I climb along them, my motor produces 300 W, my legs deliver 230 W at the moment and they are faster than I then just think how strong their legs are

Once, the combined power of me and the motor was some 750 W, and a man on an MTB was climbing an overpass faster then I could do it. Later, I asked him about his leg power. He modestly said: 'Uh, I dunno as I have no power-meter but I estimate my peak leg power to some 800 watts...'

 

[mschwett]

… I still wonder how those road bikers can go so fast on non ebikes... some magic gearing or they must only weigh 5 lbs.

nope, they’re just much more aerodynamic and have much less friction from their tires, drivetrain, etc.

a reasonably fit and trained person on a good road bike that fits them properly can sustain 20mph on flats pretty easily using only 160w of power.

typical person sitting upright on an e-bike with 2” tires would draw 320w from the battery to do the same.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

nope, they’re just much more aerodynamic and have much less friction from their tires, drivetrain, etc.

a reasonably fit and trained person on a good road bike that fits them properly can sustain 20mph on flats pretty easily using only 160w of power.

An anegdote:
I used to participate in several friendly road racing workouts on my Vado 6.0, and had to carry a spare battery to make the trip. Friends accepted me on their group rides as I was not pretending someone I was not, was giving the changes (they could draft behind me), and my powerful headlight was of a great help to the group on night returns.

Now, the ride description was: "We'd ride at the speed of 30-32 km/h (18-20 mph) on the outward leg of the ride". As soon as we got on the road, the female group leader sped up to 40 km/h (25 mph) up an overpass. That made me feel quite uneasy (If I can remember correctly, I expressed some unpleasant remarks to her afterwards, and she was only laughing!) On the first ride of that type, I was in the lead too often and then I got "accused" for dictating too high a tempo!

Now, there are legends told about me as of "the man who attends the roadie workouts with a pannier"

The power the fit roadies can muster is just increadible!

On one of the roadie workouts.

 

[Prairie Dog]

I had to make a quick run into Calgary from the airport to exchange an item for my wife at a LBS which coincidently is called, The Bike Shop, one of four locations. Lots of eye candy to speak of most of which were apparently on sale though one could be fooled by the price tags.

American made Allied Bikes had a few rides on display and the Echo apparently is their allroad platform capable of fast road riding to gravel with clearance up to 40mm tires. Flip chips (more commonly found on mtbs) such as on the Echo seem to be making an appearance on gravel bikes allowing for adjustable geometry and riding styles depending on the terrain. Giant has also incorporated the same on the Revolt.

 

[mschwett]

I had to make a quick run into Calgary from the airport to exchange an item for my wife at a LBS which coincidently is called, The Bike Shop, one of four locations. Lots of eye candy to speak of most of which were apparently on sale though one could be fooled by the price tags.

American made Allied Bikes had a few rides on display and the Echo apparently is their allroad platform capable of fast road riding to gravel with clearance up to 40mm tires. Flip chips (more commonly found on mtbs) such as on the Echo seem to be making an appearance on gravel bikes allowing for adjustable geometry and riding styles depending on the terrain. Giant has also incorporated the same on the Revolt.

View attachment 164972

very nice bike! not sure i’d make any use of the flip chip but the combo of di2 ultegra, good/generous tire clearance, and classic lines on the frame is a winner.

 

[AvalancheRun]

I rode a Carbon Domane today ($5200). Fine bike, but left me wanting for more. Positives were etap electronic shifting and rear seat comfort via their proprietary seat system (Isospeed). Shifts were quick and required virtually zero effort from the hands.

Cons are the bike was a little heavy (22 lbs), didn’t love the stability at around 24-28 mph, and I didn’t (seem) to put down much more power than with my often neglected 30 year old Trek on gravel tires. For $5k I think one should be a touch more excited. Leaning SL ebike again…

 

[Captain Slow]

Which model Domane did you ride? SL6?

I knew the Domane was on the heavy side, but I didn't think it was that heavy.

 

[AvalancheRun]

Which model Domane did you ride? SL6?

I knew the Domane was on the heavy side, but I didn't think it was that heavy.

Looks like Domane SL 6 AXS Gen 4. The sales guy said the 56 I rode would be about 22 lbs, though their website lists 19.61 lbs.
Absolutely loved the electric shifting.

 

[Captain Slow]

How much do pedals weigh? I can see the website might list the weight without pedals, but the sales guy is quoting you a figure including pedals.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

How much do pedals weigh?

Half a pound to a pound.

 

[PSm]

FYI, with one of my analog bikes, I swapped out my heavier aluminum wheelset with an affordable lighter aluminum wheelset (only $400, Wabi cycles “Sub 15” in case you’re wondering). Highly recommended upgrade.

Dropped about 1.5 lbs of weight (from rotating weight, which is a bigger benefit that most other weight reduction), and it gives me the feeling that climbing and accelerating is much better.

My imagination? Maybe, but seems like that weight difference has to be noticeable. Especially with an analog bike.

 

[AvalancheRun]

FYI, with one of my analog bikes, I swapped out my heavier aluminum wheelset with an affordable lighter aluminum wheelset (only $400, Wabi cycles “Sub 15” in case you’re wondering). Highly recommended upgrade.

Dropped about 1.5 lbs of weight (from rotating weight, which is a bigger benefit that most other weight reduction), and it gives me the feeling that climbing and accelerating is much better.

My imagination? Maybe, but seems like that weight difference has to be noticeable. Especially with an analog bike.

I noticed a HUGE difference in the Specialized Diverge models with lighter carbon wheels versus the standard wheels in the lower spec'd models. The bike was a lot faster and more nimble.

They also help with comfort.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Now as you both have mentioned lighter wheels (which I do agree are good but expensive; I would just buy a bicycle with good wheels to make the life simpler), I recollected my failed Diverge EVO demo ride. It looks the saddle was a tad too high for efficient pedalling... Otherwise I cannot explain why I hated riding a 10 kg bicycle while I can pedal my unassisted 17 kg Vado SL with such a pleasure...

 

[PSm]

Now as you both have mentioned lighter wheels (which I do agree are good but expensive; I would just buy a bicycle with good wheels to make the life simpler), I recollected my failed Diverge EVO demo ride. It looks the saddle was a tad too high for efficient pedalling... Otherwise I cannot explain why I hated riding a 10 kg bicycle while I can pedal my unassisted 17 kg Vado SL with such a pleasure...

The more I look at specs, the more it seems like a lot of bikes do have heavier wheels than expected. More Aluminum wheelsets that are lightweight are now available, they are much more affordable than carbon, and are not much heavier.

Since I really liked the new lightweight aluminum wheels for my analog SS, also just got these wheels for my analog geared bike. Specialized aluminum light wheelset for about $700.

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/alpinist-slx-disc/p/218349?color=353087-218349