What would you do with 4000W power?

[pushkar]

So are you saying that we can go up to 4k on the Superbike? If we all said we wanted it, would you offer it? I feel like a hypothetical carrot was dangled in front of me, you confirmed it was a real carrot, but than it was taken away!

I am trying to share the capability of the motor.

4000W nominal means 4000/52V = 80A continuous from the battery! All publicly available 18650 batteries max out at 60A peak (with BMS). So technically with the 185650 batteries, it will be hard to attain 4000W for any bike.


For driving 4000W motor, this is more experimental territory... pushing raw battery packs (no BMS) connected directly to the motor, for 10 minutes of glory.


The 2 realistic options for 4000W in general are the following

1. A 21700 52V pack rated pack, with a custom BMS, built for 80A discharge.
2. Change the controller to accept 72V packs. This way it is 40000/72 = 55A. (edit - this is what I assume a couple of custom vendors do)


Going back to the initial post - I want to share that the capability exists with the current controller. We are currently limited by the battery and BMS.

However, if you had a 21700 piggypack (specified in option 1 above), you can absolutely go Turbo mode on people.

 

[17Stratton]

I am trying to share the capability of the motor.

4000W nominal means 4000/52V = 80A continuous from the battery! All publicly available 18650 batteries max out at 60A peak (with BMS). So technically with the 185650 batteries, it will be hard to attain 4000W for any bike.


For driving 4000W motor, this is more experimental territory... pushing raw battery packs (no BMS) connected directly to the motor, for 10 minutes of glory.


The 2 realistic options for 4000W in general are the following

1. A 21700 52V pack rated pack, with a custom BMS, built for 80A discharge.
2. Change the controller to accept 72V packs. This way it is 40000/72 = 55A.


Going back to the initial post - I want to share that the capability exists with the current controller. We are currently limited by the battery and BMS.

However, if you had a 21700 piggypack (specified in option 1 above), you can absolutely go Turbo mode on people.

Gotcha, helpful and educational as always. Thanks Pushkar.

 

[pushkar]

There are 21700 packs that will be available later in the year. Low cycle life for sure (may be 200 cycles max) due to high discharge rates, but definitely doable.

edit: bolded the qualification.

 

[tomjasz]

FWIW. https://www.electricbike.com/top-10-reasons-to-build-borrow-steal-a-fast-electric-bike/

10 fastest production bikes in 2017

 

[Alaskan]

Well from my standpoint with a 750w motor and a Rohloff I should be able to climb trees.

Extra power might be nice if you were pulling a trailer. Having that extra power and a trailer that could carry 400+lbs would be a big deal I think.

At least 100 pounds of that 400 would have to be batteries.

 

[pushkar]

10 fastest production bikes in 2017

That list should can be safely deprecated.

UC Pro can easily breach 41mph, even at 750W power, albeit limited by how long you can sustain pedal cadence. Customer video here. (there is a brief screenshot going much higher, but on downhill with full throttle).

In my anecdotal test, the new superbike goes faster on flats, since the assist is significantly better.

 

[tomjasz]

At least 100 pounds of that 400 would have to be batteries.

 

[pushkar]

With the new controller at 2300W nominal, updated battery packs, better bike geometry, better frame, there is literally nothing that can match the superbike in terms of pure, raw performance.

Pound for pound (PAS only), it should match or potentially beat the stealthbomber in all raw metrics ( torque, top speed, range etc).

There are clearly safety limits, and we recommend keeping this legal. However, we have a motor / bike combo that can get it done, no matter the scenario.

 

[onlineaddy]

There are 21700 packs that will be available later in the year. Low cycle life for sure (may be 200 cycles max) due to high discharge rates, but definitely doable.

All 21700 packs last just 200 cycles? That can't possibly be; can it? I know the upcoming Super73 R-series bikes will utilize 21700 packs. I can't believe they'd be okay with the compromise on charge cycle life.

 

[pushkar]

All 21700 packs last just 200 cycles? That can't possibly be; can it? I know the upcoming Super73 R-series bikes will utilize 21700 packs. I can't believe they'd be okay with the compromise on charge cycle life.

Oh.. not like that. If you discharge them at the normal 30/35A regularly, charge them at 5A etc.. they will last as long (potentially longer) than 18650.

However, If you discharge them at 80A regularly.. that takes a heavy toll.. and that will shorten cycle life. That wil happen even on current 18650 packs.

 

[onlineaddy]

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[onlineaddy]

I did bring up 21700 packs in our earlier discussions on the battery for the superbike. There was no response. So, I had just assumed that it wasn't a viable option for us.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

At least 100 pounds of that 400 would have to be batteries.

Maybe. But I think there is a sweet use case for short-distance delivery services in big cities where you could probably get away with a very short range (like less than 10km) (and have extra battery packs charging back at base). it would probably work better in dense European or Asian cities than in the New World.

 

[Deacon Blues]

My present ebike, with a 500 W hub motor, allows me to cruise along at 20 mph with moderate pedaling. I'm looking forward to riding my upcoming WW Superbike (see what I did there Pushkar) but I

have no idea what it will be like to ride an ebike with 2300W of continual power. I suspect it will a hell of a lot of fun, but honestly I doubt I would have any desire for more power and more speed.

Having said that, after riding a 2300W ebike for a year I may be interested in more power. Heck, after driving my V8 powered Mazda Miata for a year I started searching for ways to make the car faster.

 

[dblhelix]

Theoretically speaking .. if there was more power available....

Say...

3000W nominal (4000W peak)...
or 3500W nominal (4200W peak)....
or... say 4000W nominal (4500W peak)

What use case would we need it for ? Trade off is incredible motor wear and tear. Really limited range..

Absolutely theoretically speaking.

I see these all over nyc. Not right now, but when things are normal/new normal ... I’d say commercial/industrial applications for delivery, depending on how bad that range hit would be.

eCarla en - Carla Cargo

www.carlacargo.de

Not talking about the eCarla, of course.

 

[jono1331]

With great power comes great responsibility.

 

[pushkar]

I see these all over nyc. Not right now, but when things are normal/new normal ... I’d say commercial/industrial applications for delivery, depending on how bad that range hit would be.

I have seen carla cargo in NYC more than once. It is insane how well that works. Apparently Tern isthe US distributor for the trailers.


That being said, I dont know which is good for cargo - mid drive or something else. See https://www.radpowerbikes.com/pages/commercial-radburro .... they are a central engine, a proven hauler style design. However, with something like Carla Cargo, there is a lot of other regular bike options.

 

[onlineaddy]

@pushkar Sounds like if you could provide an upgrade path for folks wanting or needing more power, that would satisfy everybody.

 

[pushkar]

@pushkar Sounds like if you could provide an upgrade path for folks wanting or needing more power, that would satisfy everybody.

There’s already an upgrade path. Just needs new batteries.

 

[onlineaddy]

There’s already an upgrade path. Just needs new batteries.

Fantastic.