Watt Wagons Critical Product Availability Status

[Fast n' Furious]

You'll be fine. Just stay underground and take some of this

How much KI do I take?

Age Group	KI Dosage	Number of 130-mg tablets
Adults over 18 years	130 mg	1
Over 12 - 18 years and over 150 pounds	130 mg	1
Over 12 - 18 years and less than 150 pounds	65 mg	1/2
Over 3 -12 years	65 mg	1/2

If there is a radiation emergency you need to take KI before or just after you are exposed . You can also take it 3 or 4 hours later, but it will not be as helpful.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

@Fast n' Furious my frame's external dimensions show the seatpost centered, but the mounts for the motor are offset to the side and when you install the motor, the motor sits flush with the frame on the drive side and sticks out ~2cm on the non-drive side. There is a plastic cover that came with the motor for the non-drive side that screws into the frame and covers the nuts and washers of the 3 bolts that secure the motor to the frame, and provides a little 'easy' cable access when removed.

Here's the good stuff. Nice and centered

Here from Bafang's website you can see the bracket and how much the motor protrudes on the non-drive side, along with that plastic cover
View attachment 123888

Here you can see how the motor fits up with a frame. The seatpost isn't full centered (to the outer dimension) but the flanges in the bracket are still way offset for the motor to keep the chainline correct. The Ti frame pictured probably just has a little extra on the non-drive side that the plastic cover fits into. If anything providing better splash protection.
View attachment 123891

I'm too lazy to post pictures of the motor itself - since it's time to go play outside (on my legs... since I don't have my X1 motor yet...) but here's a link to a Frey review of the motor with the best pics I could find that show how dramatic that offset for the mounting points are http://frey-bafang.patransformers.com/2020/06/28/bafang-ultra-max-m620-review/

I would also recommend to anyone and everyone who wants to easily remove their motor for service down the line to pop those mounting bolts out and slather them in some carbon safe grease like Crystal White Lightning then reinstall - more of a sidenote I guess only tangentially related, but... totally relevant lol

Thank you.
I understand. 'Offset', yes. Like these quality titanium M620 frames - and I threw in a Luna bracket.

Then we have the pic I previously posted .....

And the hole for the fender is perfectly centered for the wheel, accurately in the middle of the mount.
Shouldn't that line be on the center of gravity ?
Well, I guess moving the frame seat tube over on the mount bracket could work and if the off-side seat-stay's too long on one side, no worries, weld it anywhere it'll fit - welds that lumpy, no one will notice anyway.
I'm just a picky bastard.
-
Why do I need 'carbon safe grease' on my titanium bike?

But even if I did have a CF bike, (C4) Carbon is indestructible by any reasonable chemical means - though many types of 'grease' will even attack polyester - but polyester is all I hear CF frame makers using, even though it's weak and turns brittle ?

Okay, lets get greasy: For a Carbon/ Plastic bike, I think for conditions under 500f, a PTFE based grease would be the best option.
I've used PTFE grease and reused PTFE seals in +450F in settings, with no effect on the PTFE.
Finish-Line Premium PTFE (no lithium) is decent stuff. Nothing in there that will corrode your plastic parts (more than any other petroleum based compound).
White Lightning replaces lithium (harmful to plastic/ rubber) - but evidently great for psychotics) with aluminum.
That's helpful, but PTFE is inert and slippery, releasing parts quite well.
-
Titanium certainly doesn't need a powdered lower galvanic scale metal - to corrode- on it's lubed faces.
That's the very stuff that freezes metal together, not eases it's parting.
The next highest metal on the galvanic scale (cathodic), after (Number 35) titanium is (36) gold.
Of all 38 metals (Anodic), aluminum is number 4.
But yeah. If your casing if exceeding 500F, go metallic based for sure - maybe carry a fire extinguisher.

Anecdotally, reliable in-action vids, show a local here running a bumped up G510 to extremes for several miles and can still put his ungloved mitt on the cover when it's hot.

I appreciate material science data because not knowing what'll harm my materials, I can't possibly identify products that contain it -- that's why I know virtually any long chain hydrocarbon, especially aliphatic, but aromatics as well (like Benzene, Toluene), will dissolve polyester resins.

As an aside, data on hydrocarbon contact 'degradation of CF matrix' is scant - because there's nothing to test. We know what dissolves plastics.
What type of plastic resin a CF frame is made made from is the question I'd need answered.

Epoxy's relative strength can hold up to 2,000 lbs. per square inch
Polyester? Less than 500 lbs. psi. How many lbs psi impact do you generate riding?
1.46667 ft/s = 1 mph. You may be hitting a lot harder than you think on both horizontal and vertical plane at once.
You like math. Terminal impact can be determined by solving for v, Where final velocity (v) equals the square root of initial velocity (u) squared plus two times acceleration (a) times displacement (s). v=√u2+2as.
We used to say velocity squares, mass doubles
Acceleration? An object dropping 1ft will reach a velocity of 8.02 feet per second (ft/s). An object dropping 4 ft will produce 16.04 ft/s

I'm not extolling titanium, but it suits me. On a titanium bike, premium welding is a must. Like this - and there's the offset

Built into the mount.

Hope this clarifies.

Fn'F

 

[JRA]

"On a titanium bike, premium welding is a must."

I think your idea of a premium Ti weld and mine differ quite a bit.....

 

[Deacon Blues]

The welding in the bottom photo is spectacular.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

"On a titanium bike, premium welding is a must."

I think your idea of a premium Ti weld and mine differ quite a bit.....

View attachment 124191

View attachment 124190

That's because of your reading comprehension, not the pictures of of titanium welds. lol, lol, lol.
You're cherry-picking the photo of the Luna kit motor plate being welded in (as I said I would include it in the photos)
The point was "the post is dead center" - just like on all others.
But now you point out a bicycle frame and for what?
Petty intellectual dishonesty and failures in comprehension. That's why I've come to take everything you three post with a mouthful of salt: You know a little bit, think you know everything and will say anything to fit the narrative that you're victims.

The photo you show is too blurry to tell the quality of the welding and it appears (too blurry to tell) the welds have bead has been ground down and polished - always done to hide sloppy work.

Thanks for being you,

Fn'F

 

[Fast n' Furious]

The welding in the bottom photo is spectacular.

Sure when a blurry pic of an aluminum alloy bicycle, sanded and painted to hide the flaws.
Quality titanium welds have a larger bead and look like a roll of dimes, not little sanded down lumps.

Like this titanium BMX frame.

 

[JRA]

The Welder: https://www.ibiscycles.com/our-story/history/4-wes-employee-no-1

Actually no filing/filler involved. While the stack of dimes method of welding is considered state of the art and wins awards at NAHBS I personally prefer the more organic looking approach that Wes adopted via learning from Gary Helfrich who started Merlin and Ron Andrews of King Cage.

Perhaps I'm a bit biased because I had the good fortune to watch him work his magic. Not only his welds but he was an excellent Ti fabricator that could have his way with Ti like few could or can. Like this bike he cheffed up for me in 2000.

 

[loamoaf]

Picked up my motor from UPS, and as predicted no programming cable or any other documentation (would have expected a packing slip or receipt, not a big deal, but odd)

What else is odd is when I made the purchase the options (and price) led me to believe this was a whole M620 kit (I selected fat sprocket as an option) - but whatever, luckily I ordered everything else I needed from GBK when I bought my 'backup' motor.

A little let down, but not really surprised... I'll real with y'all I am hesitating to believe it even has an X1 in it until I can verify with the programming cable, but at least the tape on it does day it was configured to 52V. No warranty seal on the motor either, so I guess I can feel a little less guilty about popping it open to swap fancy bearings into - if a little dubious about when that warranty will be honored if I need it.

And to think I was almost ready to make a joke about 'I got mine, see you nerds later - I'm headed to the X1 programming thread'

We're gonna suffer just a little longer together.

I need someone to take my frustration out on before I send WW an email about the programming cable - @Fast n' Furious quit yackin' about welds and built us the perfect superebike already. I'm still waiting for you to put the Gerries out of business with your controller!

I feel a little better now

 

[Leon S. Kennedy]

I ordered and paid for "Harness w/ 2yr SW upgrades (late July)" in October 2020 when I ordered the Crosstour. Never received it, although I did email/text about it with Wattwagons for a while, but then gave up.

 

[loamoaf]

@Leon S. Kennedy so I saw in another thread someone mentioned they are still waiting on programming harnesses and it will be 'another week or so' - you're a brave man not chasing after $200 of product/service you paid for.

At least the motor does have some SHC 100 globs and smudges around it, so it implies it was opened at at least repacked. I'm sure as hell not going to stop until I get that harness though - I'd be damned not to. Just really pisses me off after all this and at some points feeling a little guilt for being 'too harsh' I legit just got a box with a motor and a piece of tape on it, and zero communication about the missing harness or reason behind it. I had initially thought they intentionally skimped me (who knows maybe this is still the case) until I found the little blurb about harnesses in the legal action thread.

As others have mentioned, just leaves a sour taste and feel like they only care about payments and not customers. So so so so much damage control could have been had by simple communication staying up to date - when I was getting regular email updates it was still a bummer to see delays, but at least I was aware of them instead of left wondering in the dark. I don't like unknowns - even if they are known unknowns and I've come to expect them.

 

[WaxedWookie]

Just really pisses me off after all this and at some points feeling a little guilt for being 'too harsh' I legit just got a box with a motor and a piece of tape on it, and zero communication about the missing harness or reason behind it. I had initially thought they intentionally skimped me (who knows maybe this is still the case) until I found the little blurb about harnesses in the legal action thread.

My harness was left out without explanation too. Knowing Amit admitted to deliberately downgrading parts on my bike without compensation or comment (I've covered this elsewhere), I'm not so inclined to grant them the benefit of the doubt.

As others have mentioned, just leaves a sour taste and feel like they only care about payments and not customers. So so so so much damage control could have been had by simple communication staying up to date - when I was getting regular email updates it was still a bummer to see delays, but at least I was aware of them instead of left wondering in the dark. I don't like unknowns - even if they are known unknowns and I've come to expect them.

Unfortunately, it seems Pushkar has decided to ignore this feedback and blame us for mentioning the issues, using threats of folding the business and leaving people out of pocket to try to silence us instead. They're putting their level of accountability and leadership on display for all to see - the decision to fix things or fold can't be far off at this point.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

The Welder: https://www.ibiscycles.com/our-story/history/4-wes-employee-no-1

Actually no filing/filler involved. While the stack of dimes method of welding is considered state of the art and wins awards at NAHBS I personally prefer the more organic looking approach that Wes adopted via learning from Gary Helfrich who started Merlin and Ron Andrews of King Cage.

Perhaps I'm a bit biased because I had the good fortune to watch him work his magic. Not only his welds but he was an excellent Ti fabricator that could have his way with Ti like few could or can. Like this bike he cheffed up for me in 2000.

View attachment 124344

Very nice bike. What kind of fork is that? How much does it weigh? What are your impressions?
Can it do this? Jones Titanium (check out 3:57)
In the oil-patch, you can't afford welds that won't x-ray flawless, so the roll-of-dimes is universal.
If a bikes welds fail at speed (highly unlikely) you could be seriously injured, even killed, but a weld failing in a refinery is another matter. For years I was employed in restoring refineries; storage facilities; papermills; terminals after catastrophic fires/ explosions in. Figuring out how to dismantle and restore thousands of miles of mangled pipe - with some 7' tall Texas Superintendent (for 25 years, and ain't heard the word 'no' in 20 of them) apoplectic, screaming with spit flying, demanding 'you WILL authorize the re-start for tomorrow' - while you know in you heart 'in a pigs eye, bubba. I'm not even risking your miserable life' (and you stare blandly, knowing this guy will try and kill you if he thinks you are slowing his plant up.
I hated it. Constant anxiety. Ten kinds of responsibility gnawing at you; having to tell powerful, demanding people "NO".
Gives ten kinds of new meanings to "Toxic Work Environment".

Part of my job was to inspect certain welded areas. I'm not a welder - nor could I have mastered 1/10 of the trades who's work I supervised like god - so my crash course (from Zachery) instruction made me cut-and-dried, conservatively skeptical of anything 'new' when it comes to the art and science of welding.

My understanding is analogous to stacking a roll of melted coins leaning to one side atop each other. Grinding those bumps flat removes part of the weld itself, decreasing the mass. Mass is cohesive by it's very nature.
In-The-Raw, the weakest points in the weld are where the puddle is thinnest (in the dips) but, the surface of the puddle contains the highest temper strength.
If I grind off the humps (the tempered surface) down closer to the dips, the thinnest, weakest part becomes stronger than 99% of my previous surface'.
If by 'Organic' you mean 'raw' (not 'round; bulbous; curved; obtuse'), hey we agree.
Replicable, mechanically precise welds are a science. The ability to produce them by hand the art.
Haven't yet, but certainly will read the article because Titanium is a special metal - evidently to you as well, I see!

I sure hope we get back in production.
I'm in the planning stages for my next build, a 49lb, titanium framed rear-hub.

Thanks for all input!

Fn'F

 

[Fast n' Furious]

The Welder: https://www.ibiscycles.com/our-story/history/4-wes-employee-no-1

Actually no filing/filler involved. While the stack of dimes method of welding is considered state of the art and wins awards at NAHBS I personally prefer the more organic looking approach that Wes adopted via learning from Gary Helfrich who started Merlin and Ron Andrews of King Cage.

Perhaps I'm a bit biased because I had the good fortune to watch him work his magic. Not only his welds but he was an excellent Ti fabricator that could have his way with Ti like few could or can. Like this bike he cheffed up for me in 2000.

View attachment 124344

I checked out the article

Uh yeah, I guess.

Fn'F

 

[JRA]

Ah, the Chopper from Hell. That is the only bicycle to ever be featured in Easy Rider magazine. Had a Sachs 2stroke motor wheel.

Oddly as talented as he was his end story was very similar to the subjects of complaint here.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

Well China is coming alive. I'm seeing prices near double, but still 1/2 USA and 2 - 3 weeks for delivery.
Domino throttles jumped from $105 to $115, overnight; then $120 and before I could buy became unavailable from all sources I could find.
Located a source in Alameda CA https://www.electricmotorsport.com/domino-twist-grip-throttle-with-microswitch.html that had one.
The 'Domino' is part of my build scantlings.
I also see Innotrace is up and selling products.
I was bidding on some lightly used Black, 710mm (Butted) Jones H-Bars (flat rise), 'till people bid right past the price for new.
I immediately bought a set from Jones. These will be on my UC, so all the better they're 610mm in Silver.
When I saw his vids and he stressed 'function over form' Jones had me sold.
He's missing the boat by not demoing these bars for e-bikes. But then there may not be anymore in the pipeline, or ever, like so many great bars I read about, now gone.
Minimalist with 'Golf Course' area real estate in nice straight lines? Check.

31.8 x 22.2mm - no shims needed. From the anodizing to the butted construction they're heavy-duty, but lighter than steel and you can feel it.

So far, so good.
When I was told UC orders were put 'for 60 days' ('til July?), I figured August - September deliveries.
I'm keeping a good outlook and sticking to my plans.

Any other good news?

Fn'F

 

[loamoaf]

Anyone hear any updates about programming controllers? WW has gone completely dark to my inquiries about a simple update on them...

 

[Fast n' Furious]

Optimax and/ or BarnBoy (BB) are prime suspects for harboring that fugitive knowledge.
Have you checked innotrace facebook pages? There's a ton of chatter over there about 'the new update' and how to set it up.

Too bad one can't tune spoke tension with a phone, like the Gates belt. I have a ton of miles on this wheel, bearings are fine, it's in nice shape. These moto-x tires seem to wear forever - it's almost embarrassing, as hard as (I think) I'm driving - or I'd take it in and have all done at the same time.


I know you checked out that Pro-Titanium Bolts store link.
View attachment 126057
The PRC small shops get preference from manufacturers for the best product and shipping. You buy from the PRC middlemen, they have the government assuring their game.
Not nice in China to abuse 'the people', and favor exploiting, capitalists. They snuff a thousand miscreants at a time in stadiums.
Recently the entire crew at the Eastern shipping center just vanished, then it was announced that NEW, 'more party line' bureaucrats had been appointed to replace 'mismanaging criminals' (Ouch).
Now, it's getting weirder. PRC is escalating into a trade-war with Taiwan. BIG changes.

 

[opimax]

I know nothing of programming hoping to get some hands on help from someone here either visiting or hosting at some point

 

[Deacon Blues]

I know nothing of programming hoping to get some hands on help from someone here either visiting or hosting at some point

I'm in the same boat as you. This is a whole new world for an old guy like me.

 

[loamoaf]

I think 'programming' is a bit generous for what the end user is doing - more like changing settings [that are used by the programming of the controller]. Like when you hit the settings button on your TV or phone, no real knowledge of any programming language is needed.

And I did hear back from WW in regards to more programming cables, expect to ship late July/early august... so far off! It would have been pretty cool if Innotrace were able to make the controller work with a stock Bafang programming cable... I actually do not know if they do or don't!