Watt Wagons Critical Product Availability Status

[loamoaf]

@Csubi those numbers for ships waiting off the west coast seem low in comparison to pre-stopped-giving-a-s*it-about-covid times - though I'm sure there's a backlog sitting in port waiting to be loaded... but to compare those two Norfolk averaged about 1,300,000 TEUs in annual imports for 2018-2020 and Charleston about 1,100,000. Compared to LA at about 4,600,000 & Long Beach at 3,900,000 that doesn't seem like a lot. Even on the east coast Newark averaged 4,300,000 TEUs & Savannah's averaged around 2,300,00 through those 3 years. So 209,000 TEUs between two ports on the east coast doesn't seem all that crazy. That's less than 3 weeks worth of what Newark deals in terms of just imports; a little over a month back log on the two ports mentioned in the snippet. That being said, I can only repeat some numbers from a cited source I can find with google and hit some calculator keys, you're the guy in the crane - standing (sitting) between me and my X1, perhaps..? joking

But that doesn't change that controllers were in stock at two different points when I placed my order, but went towards orders placed after mine on both occasions, resulting in me waiting on controllers after originally waiting on just motors. I hope their Innotrace order comes in soon, and I hope I don't get gypped once more. I would have imagined an inventory management that earmarks parts for orders as they are chronologically placed, not a parts bin free-for-all that is 'the first thing that can get shipped gets shipped' - especially considering they take people's money up front any way. It's quite obvious there's no rush to fulfill an order once paid for...

I was told I'm "first on the list" when the new controllers arrive but man I'm worried they went radio silent once I sought assurance on that... I just want what I paid for and to no get dicked around & flat out lied to. I hope I was told the truth. But hope won't get me up the mountain with 35% efficiency gainz and 10kHz polling rate for unrivaled responsiveness with fully programmable power levels. I'd love to eat my words and be blown away by the product and say oh wow 6 stars totally X1 made me the man I've always feared I'd never be - but I mean what's really left for me to judge in terms of the customer service?

I feel like I've become one of the people (you know who you are) who just rants and nobody bothers reading their tirades anymore. Once I get my motor I can never concern myself with WW's record of fulfilling purchases and I will gladly f*ck right off to the X1 programming thread. Pardón mein foie gras

 

[Fast n' Furious]

Ask one of the Well Known Members from England for your Innotrace. Buy it and send to your house. @loamoaf

That's why I like you, Rome. We agree so often ... but why a member from the UK ?
Reviewing the transcript could give the wrong impression. Wouldn't 'someone who's been there' and followed the situation be best ?

Why not the Aussie ?

 

[Fast n' Furious]

What is my agenda?

A customer posted that his bike arrived with downgraded parts and claims that one of the owners of the company told him it was done deliberately.

To me that sounds like fraud, so I thought I would ask for a little clarification on exactly how that went down.

Actually the way I read it, a customer posted he'd read that another customer posted 'his bike came with downgraded parts'.
It sounds complicated. Just have faith.

Fn'F

 

[Fast n' Furious]

I’m not defending WW. However I have orders that have been in limbo for MONTHS. It’s now gotten even worse with the shutdowns in China.

For clarity, I’d be angry beyond description if I was waiting like many here are for WW to come through.

Sorry to hear about your supply lines plight. It's hurting a lot of good people.
I ordered a Titanium Cross Tour in October 2021. In February I upgraded the build's order in ways that would keep me in the current frame delivery group:
considering the CT's wider WB will not accommodate the KVII, I accepted the change to a titanium UC in Small size frame and KVII.

Recently, Greg called and said we have a delay. The frames.
Him: "it looks like 60 days". Me: "I'd think July at best". We discussed the situation a bit. They're trying not to speculate.
-
I guess I'm one of the many here waiting. Most don't post anything; esp. when expressions hinting satisfaction are excoriated, accused of agendas.
It's just so alien - like attacking at Burger king because french-fries are cold and that guy's are warm ?
Watt Wagons has annual sales of $250,000.00, a small shop of craftsmen.
Excluding founders - whatever private agreements they have - I don't see anyone waiting for a bike in this cycle in distress ?
I admit to only speaking to the titanium bikes, but the stress cases are speaking for the entire company, so who ?
"Me too, but I'm hiding" is bullshit. WW turns out 20 - 30 machines a year.
I hear complaint's from two years ago, but excluding people with contracts who will/ cannot reveal, prevents any rational person from judging the veracity.
Being shady that long, complaints would be overwhelming, not just from people that bought parts.
-
The trade situation is worse now than in March 2020. Half the world's shipping containers sitting idle in or because of China.
It's hitting everything. My fishing rod builder that normally takes 60 days was flummoxed for several months for want of one part - of Japanese manufacture?
Soon as he told me I stepped in, contacted a fishing shop in Taiwan, who ordered from Japan and shipped to him.
The traditional delivery for my birthday failed miserably. I tipped my builder substantially, regardless I missed the Halibut season.
-
I'm not happy w/ life hampering my delivery time dreams, but not 'angry', certainly not at Watt Wagons.

Ride on !

 

[Deacon Blues]

I'm waiting for the same small size UC Pro frame, although calling it a 'small' size is a misnomer. My 'medium' sized UC Pro (old stock) frame is really a large by any commuter frame standard.
I also want a Kindernay hub.

 

[Cuz Vinny]

Sorry to hear about your supply lines plight. It's hurting a lot of good people.
I ordered a Titanium Cross Tour in October 2021. In February I upgraded the build's order in ways that would keep me in the current frame delivery group:
considering the CT's wider WB will not accommodate the KVII, I accepted the change to a titanium UC in Small size frame and KVII.

Recently, Greg called and said we have a delay. The frames.
Him: "it looks like 60 days". Me: "I'd think July at best". We discussed the situation a bit. They're trying not to speculate.
-
I guess I'm one of the many here waiting. Most don't post anything; esp. when expressions hinting satisfaction are excoriated, accused of agendas.
It's just so alien - like attacking at Burger king because french-fries are cold and that guy's are warm ?
Watt Wagons has annual sales of $250,000.00, a small shop of craftsmen.
Excluding founders - whatever private agreements they have - I don't see anyone waiting for a bike in this cycle in distress ?
I admit to only speaking to the titanium bikes, but the stress cases are speaking for the entire company, so who ?
"Me too, but I'm hiding" is bullshit. WW turns out 20 - 30 machines a year.
I hear complaint's from two years ago, but excluding people with contracts who will/ cannot reveal, prevents any rational person from judging the veracity.
Being shady that long, complaints would be overwhelming, not just from people that bought parts.
-
The trade situation is worse now than in March 2020. Half the world's shipping containers sitting idle in or because of China.
It's hitting everything. My fishing rod builder that normally takes 60 days was flummoxed for several months for want of one part - of Japanese manufacture?
Soon as he told me I stepped in, contacted a fishing shop in Taiwan, who ordered from Japan and shipped to him.
The traditional delivery for my birthday failed miserably. I tipped my builder substantially, regardless I missed the Halibut season.
-
I'm not happy w/ life hampering my delivery time dreams, but not 'angry', certainly not at Watt Wagons.

Ride on !

To me it just seems to be the same people that immediately jump in and bad mouth WW whenever someone has a problem or concern. It’s really getting old at this point.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

I'm waiting for the same small size UC Pro frame, although calling it a 'small' size is a misnomer. My 'medium' sized UC Pro (old stock) frame is really a large by any commuter frame standard.
I also want a Kindernay hub.

Your information has been helpful and reliable.
No more ti-CT's. My order was on the cusp - after they had removed the model from the web-page in October. I did tell you that you got my bike?
Then something happened and shut down ti frames - it appears at the sourcing level.
When sourcing resumed, it was for new UC orders, so my lone CT that's out of production could be slow coming on the China side.
We know the UC is a new frame. They would have to create one (CT wide) UC. A new jig for one frame. I'd be the crash dummy, so several months back I shuffled to the UC frame.
Already considering a small frame, I asked and was told yes, it's clear 'I'll take a medium if that's all that's available".
Your input confirms my experience with my other machine. I'm really a Medium-small.
No idea if my order's prioritization dates from my payment date back in October, or when I made changes. I'm not sure they'll have a few extra ti frames, but indications were they believe so.
That's life during wartime.
-
The gates drive was on my short list. Going cassette took some wind out of my sails .
The cassette component grade I wanted was no less expensive, but the KXIV weighs more and the thought of constantly skipping extraneous gears for my use sounded tedious. I could live all with that but as another member said, 'I only have one thumb' that works well - so the twosie shifter was a deal-breaker.
The KVII w/ 50% less gears and a slight 200grms weight reduction sounded better, but their improved shifter that I can use is what made me look again.
I'm okay with the bit less overall gear range and now the more expensive cassette, more maintenance and downtime - problems w/ high-end parts from different makers and that I can have my Gates tilted the scales.
Much negative speculation (often evolving from 'a bad to seal' into 'they're failing left and right') was a tempest in a teapot.
We'll see.

Fn'F

 

[Csubi]

For what it's worth.... the factory the makes the New Helios and Hyrda frames opened yesterday.
No idea what that means going forward. Covid restrictions are still heavy in China. Who knows where my frame is in the queue etc.

Anyway, some glimmer of hope....

 

[Deacon Blues]

Frame size
By most bike sizing standards a UC Pro medium frame is really a large frame. I've compared the dimensions of my medium UC Pro with other medium commuter ebikes and my UC Pro's frame is considerably larger.
I also took the bike into my favorite local bike shop and they also said, after taking measurements, a large frame.

Over 3 or 4 months Pushkar and I had come to an agreement that I would send back my medium UC Pro and he would build me a small sized UC Pro. Note that the main reason the bike is going back is the shifting problem-the frame size is secondary. When the small sized titanium frames arrive he said the small sized frames were almost the same size as the mediums. He said it looked like they were built incorrectly and that the changes would be made for the next titanium frame shipment.
God only knows when the next batch of frames will make it to Boston.

Shifting
I've come to the conclusion that my bike will never shift properly in all of its gears. Never.
The frame's super-wide rear hub spacing makes it impossible to install a regular derailleur and have it shift properly. My bike's frame originally had a 3 speed hub, which, I suspect, worked well. I don't think the bike was ever designed to work with a regular derailleur.
The mechanic at the bike shop I frequent, who has 18 years experience working bikes, said he had never seen a bike with such a large cross-chaining.
FnF, I'm wondering if my old-framed UC Pro was actually a CT? Is there more of a difference besides the super wide rear hub between the two models?

Final note
I took my UC Pro for a 55km ride today (the rain stopped!) and I have to say this bike is a joy to ride. It's very comfortable and the power is addictive.
I rode up a REALLY steep hill during my ride. I don't know what degree of steepness this 1 km hill is, but only a handful of riders on regular bikes have made it all the way to the top without getting off and walking.
I rode up in level 3 (I have mine set to 5 levels) and the bike flew up the hill. With some of the steeper parts I hit 1300 W.

This like is turning out to be my favorite bike. If I could use all of the gears and the bike was a bit smaller it would be almost perfect. I say 'almost' because I'm still think it looks a bit DYI, but that becomes irrelevant when I ride it.

FnF, you're going to love this bike when you get it.

Photo taken at the top of the hill.

 

[Cuz Vinny]

My two Watt Wagons Hydra’s. Both bikes have performed flawlessly. Only had to replace a defective Magura rear brake which was replaced by Magura no questions asked. I know the delivery times for the bikes are exceptionally long now but if you can be patient it will be worth the wait.

 

[greeno]

Mr. Blues how wide is your rear hub? My friend has a bike with a 197mm rear end and is running an 11 spd derailler on it with the 3" x 27.5" tires. He's got the Ultra also and rides 90% of the time off-road and he has full use of every gear and no skipping or dropping that I can remember. His is dual suspension but that shouldn't matter.

 

[Deacon Blues]

Rough measuring looks like my rear hub is 197m. I'm using a 'fat bike' front spider gear to get the chain to line up better with the cassette, but I still get a lot of skipping in the 11 tooth cog.
The 'Q' factor is huge, but it doesn't seem to have any negative impact on my knees.
Ron

 

[Cuz Vinny]

Rough measuring looks like my rear hub is 197m. I'm using a 'fat bike' front spider gear to get the chain to line up better with the cassette, but I still get a lot of skipping in the 11 tooth cog.
The 'Q' factor is huge, but it doesn't seem to have any negative impact on my knees.
Ron

Do you have a picture of your chainline?

 

[Deacon Blues]

I haven't taken a photo of the chainline since installing the fat bike spyder ring and larger front chainring, but I did post a photo of the cross chaining when I received the bike.

 

[greeno]

Mr B. it's hard to tell from your pic but what does the chainline look like when your in the middle of your cassette gearing. It looks to me your chainring need to come out farther. Put it in your most center cog and adjust your chainring in or out to have the chain line up as straight as you can.
My friend has the larger offset spider for his bike too and I think we removed the outside chain guard plate and mounted the chainring on the outside of the spider. I think he had to get some longer chainring bolts if I remember right.

Actually going for a "fun" ride with my buddy and the wives later this morning. I will double check his set up and post up a pic if I remember and don't "consume" to much.

You can actually live with more chain deflection on the higher gears as they have more teeth to keep chain in place. So if anything you want to cheat for the lower cogs as they have less contact points and would be more prone to skipping.

Some of the posts I read about guys not being able to fix the chain skip and not being able to use all their gearing puzzles me.

Whether it's a fat bike of standard has no bearing on the chain issues. Chain type, lubrication, derailed adjustment, cassette condition and chainring type are the contributing factors on weather it will work correctly or not.

Will post up a pic later.

 

[Deacon Blues]

If I remember correctly, with the stock front chain ring, for the chain to be straight the cassette had to be in the 7th or 8th (from the smallest) cog.
I'll have to check to see what cog straightens the chain out now that I have a fat bike spyder gear on the front.
I haven't done anything more to get rid of the skipping in the smallest cog because the bike will be going back to WW (hopefully) sometime in the early summer and can get by without using the smallest cog. It does limit my cruising speed, though.

 

[rtp]

@Deacon Blues I'm with Greeno. Can't quite tell from the pic, but it seems like a straight chainline would line up with like the second largest sprocket from your pic..

Is the spider installed reversed and dished inwards? See if you can flip the spider, install the chainring on the outside of the spider, and look into adding spacers and linger chainring bolts if need be.
Can you post a pic or confirm where that bike sits as a 'straight' chainline?

 

[Surly]

Without a doubt its the spider, it's either not fat or the chainring is fitted wrong, i'd go with the former, the offset is way out, looks like by more than an incorrectly fitted chainring.

Some pics..

 

[greeno]

Deacon here's a few pics I took today of my buddys set-up. Like I said he has usage of all of his gears and no issues when shifting or dropping the chain.

First pic is of mine just for a quick reference. I'm running a 148mm Boost rear hub and an 11spd Shimano set-up. Just the standard stock spider and a 38t Wolf tooth 130bcd narrow/wide chainring. KMC E-chain and a middle of the road Ultra 34-11 cassette in the rear. Usually ride in the middle of my gearing and go to the bigger ones for steeper climbs.

Here is my friends set-up. As you can see his front chainring is pretty much aligned with the center of his rear gearset. He's running the same Wolftooth N/W chainring as me on the front but I think his is a 10spd on the back.

As you can see his chainring is on the outside of the spider to help it line up better. So now it deviates in or out more evenly and everything is smooth.
I know I know I did give him s*it for letting his chain get so far crusted up. Some people.

Hope this helps. Be a real bummer not to get full usage out of your equipment.
Good luck.

 

[rtp]

@Deacon Blues Post pics of your spider from the top and a pic from the rear with the chain lines centered to whatever gear it lines up cleanly with.
@Surly may be right here - might be wrong chainring, like flat vs being properly dished outwards. Take a look at @greeno 's second-to-last pic. What does your spider and chainring look like in comparison?