Hi, I've recently ordered a Superdelite with Vario gearing and GX option. My plan is to use the bike for 50% touring and 50% mountain biking (on some steep fire roads/trails -- nothing particularly technical (but steep grade)). I'm wondering how well the Vario can handle steep fireroads/trails -- whether the Rohloff would present a significant difference over the Vario that a little extra muscle on the Vario can't handle. I'm also wondering whether the recently announced firmware update to the Bosch motor might help to mitigate the difference. Would greatly appreciate advice, since perhaps it's not too late to change my order.
Vario vs Rohloff on Superdelite with GX option on steep fire roads/trails
- Thread starter geoff1
- Start date
Nova Haibike
Well-Known Member
The difference is in the names. The Enviolo hub provides a 380% difference between high and low, and the Rohloff 500...actually 526%. It is no contest, really.
Thanks for this. My real question is about the lows... is the low on the Enviolo about the same as the low on the Rohloff? Importantly, if one compared the low on a mountain bike with 27 gears (Shimano XT deore cassette), would the amount of muscle power required to get up a steep dirt upgrade be equivalent to either an Enviolo (in the Sport or Turbo assist) in the lowest mountain bike gear (Shimano XT gearing on non-ebike mountain bike)? I appreciate that these questions may be difficult question to answer and hope that the question makes sense :-(, and thanks in advance for any thoughts!
John2911
Member
Here is a short video by a Superdelite GT Enviolo rider in Luxembourg climbing a 20% grade and puffing all the way in the lowest gear and highest assist level. He recommends getting the Rohloff to anyone who intends to climb steep grades on a regular basis. The written comments below this video are also helpful.
John2911
Member
I faced the same question, and I opted for the Rohloff for our steep grades in Northern California. (My bike will finally arrive this coming Thursday!) But for me, the decision was only between Enviolo and Rohloff because I eliminated the chain to avoid the maintenance and grease issues. I can’t comment conclusively about the lowest gear on ANY derailleur setup versus the Rohloff, but I think Rohloff has the lowest gear compared with most general chain transmissions.
Squaxor
Active Member
I had a Tinker with an Enviolo but changed to a Superdelite (GT HS) with the Rohloff gears. I loved the smooth Envolio, but the Rohloff's hill climbing is noticeably better. The difference is mainly in the higher speeds. I maxed out downhill on the TInker at 37 km/h, but have even reached 67 Km/h on the Superdelite! The bikes differ in weight and geometry so it's hard to compare.
I'd say the Envolio is ideal for urban and rolling hills, but the Rohloff copes with more challenging slopes.
The mechanical ability of derailleur is superior, but I never want to go back to chains, oil, cleaning and endless derailleur tuning. They are also more exposed and therefore could be damaged.
I'd say the Envolio is ideal for urban and rolling hills, but the Rohloff copes with more challenging slopes.
The mechanical ability of derailleur is superior, but I never want to go back to chains, oil, cleaning and endless derailleur tuning. They are also more exposed and therefore could be damaged.
Machokie
Member
I also have a SD on order with the Enviolo. The bike was already a stretch for me so I could not justify the significant additional expenditure off the Rolhoff. I’m hoping the software update will give me a little more boost during the climbs. Worst case I burn a few more calories!
Thanks very much for the replies (and the video with the Vario up the 20% grade)! I also was hesitant to go with the Rohloff when I made the SD order due to added cost, which was way beyond what I'd expected to spend. But after considering how much the bike cost, and after gnawing appreciation of functionality issues with steep dirt road trails that I'd enjoy riding on (also in the SF Bay area), I figured that I could deal with the cost, especially given how much I was spending on the Superdelite. I just got in touch with the shop from which I bought the bike to ask for the Rohloff upgrade. The shop is going to check to see whether the change is too late to make. If it is, I figure that I'll also burn off some added calories with steep dirt road climbs (and hope that the firmware upgrade helps), being mindful of perhaps an unhappy knee.
Machokie
Member
Dangit geoff1!.... I just asked my dealer the same question. 
I think R&M is going to build my bike next week so it’s likely too late. If they can upgrade my transmission to a Rohloff I will tell my wife it was peer pressure...if they cannot I will pretend I never read this thread. Good times.
I think R&M is going to build my bike next week so it’s likely too late. If they can upgrade my transmission to a Rohloff I will tell my wife it was peer pressure...if they cannot I will pretend I never read this thread. Good times.
I just talked with the person from the dealership where I'd ordered the SD/Vario/GX bike (The New Wheel in Larksbur, CA). The New Wheel was returning my call after checking order status: whether it was too late for the switch from Vario to Rohloff. It was too late -- the bike is already in a container about to be sent to San Francisco Bay area. The person did assuage my anxiety some. He pointed out that the Vario is a smoother shifting mechanism and with the motor firmware upgrade (to be out by July 20th -- at least that's my understanding --https://electrek.co/2020/06/25/bosch-electric-bicycle-power-upgrade/) the Vario should do okay on steep climbs (though will require more effort than the Rohloff). I was also relieved some by watching the video from the fellow in Luxembourg going up a 20% grade (huffing and puffing some that John posted earlier in response to my question). Near where I live in the San Francisco Bay area is a VERY steep road, Marin Ave, and this link indicates that the street has a 25% grade: https://john-s-allen.com/galleries/... north Berkeley,the entire San Francisco area.). Marin is indeed VERY steep, so I figure that with the firmware update, I should be fine (unclear about whether dirt vs the asphalt road makes a difference in going up the same steep grade). Another note: The person from the New Wheel indicated that though my bike is now in a shipping container, he can’t make an estimate of when the bike will arrive, and this may be relevant for others: Due to COVID, Riese & Muller is having delays getting their bikes through customs.
John2911
Member
@geoff1, I’m also dealing with The New Wheel in Marin. Nice people. I’ll be picking up my SD GX Rohloff HS this Thursday! It’s been a long wait! The motor software update IS out, and I was told that mine has been updated already. I will confirm the KIOX update and headlight switchability before I pick up. Wishing you a speedy shipment. 
John2911
Member
FYI, besides the gearspread and very low gear available for hill climbing, the other attractive feature of the Rohloff was the gear efficiency, which I assume means the relative friction compared to other transmissions. This chart shows the Rohloff having the most efficient gears overall, and especially gears 8, 11, and 4 in descending order. The only comparisons labeled are the Pinion P18 and the Shimano Alfine 11. I have no idea what the others are. In my test rides, I found gear changing on the Rohloff a bit sluggish, especially compared to the derailleur. But I found I could skip past gears (several at a time) very quickly with the Rohloff. I’m sure it will take getting used to. Those were the tradeoffs I considered, plus the higher price.
I did appreciate the people at The New Wheel as well. I've reconciled with the Vario, and fingers crossed that it will allow me to go where I'd like to go -- exploring some country that's marked by steep fire roads in the East Bay and perhaps Marin. My principal concern with the low gear range -- didn't order the HS model, since speed isn't so much an issue for me. My understanding is that, with the Rohloff, you need to pause pedaling slightly when your pedals are perpendicular to the ground, and that with the vario, no pause is necessary. Of course, I have no direct experience with this! I found the video from Luxembourg helpful -- thanks for that! Hope that all goes well on Thursday!
John2911
Member
Thanks! Yes, I think there are shifting idiosyncrasies with the Rohloff to get used to. I’m hoping the instincts become automatic with practice. Maybe someone here who actually has a Rohloff would chime in about their experience.
marcparnes
Active Member
I have about 1000 miles on my 2020 SD with Rohloff now. I don't need to pause when shifting up or down, I simply continue to spin but relax the pressure for about a 1/2 second and the shift is made cleanly. The only time I've had trouble is shifting down below 8th at a standstill. On more than one occasion the shift hasn't taken place or does so once the pedals start moving but with a crunch. My starting gear is set at 8 so using something lower is unusual but I do make a point of shifting down before I stop if I'm going below 8th. Also, there is a nice little built-in program for self-tuning the Rohloff that I recently ran and it actually improved the shifting. Overall I'm really glad I went for the Rohloff.
Marc
Marc
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John2911
Member
@marcparnes, where can I find out about that built-in program for self-tuning? I’m really interested. Do you have a link? Thanks.
Squaxor
Active Member
On the Vario you must reduce the force applied to the pedals when shifting otherwise you could cause damage or at least premature wearing. On my Rohloff I pause pedalling, press the electric gear shifter to go up/down a gear or long-press to shift three gears at a time. It's as fast as my Vario.
D
Deleted member 18083
Guest
With the Rohloff E-14 a long press changes four gears. Actually, one gear is changed (up or down), plus three more (equals 4).
Short Press : 1 gear up or down
Long Press : 1 + 3 = 4 gears
Extra Long Press : 1 + 3 + 3 = 7 gears
Very Long Press : 1 + 3 + 3 + 3 = 10 gears
Extra Very Long Press : 1 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 = 13 gears
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