Vado touring?

[Sierratim]

My wife and I are planning an unsupported bike tour up Oregon's Willamette Valley this Summer, plus a few side trips. We've done a number of supported bike tours with mechanical bikes. This will be our first unsupported bike tour and our first on ebikes.

We won't be "bikepacking". We'll be road riding and staying in local inns (I know, we're wimps, but we're in our 70's so our grandkids say it's OK).

There is another topic on general issues related to ebike touring that's probably a better topic for questions related to this specific route. What I'm hoping for here is feedback and suggestions related to getting our 2020 Vado 5's setup to make this a successful trip, success being defined as max fun!

We'll need to carry water and snacks for 30-50 miles a day and enough clothes for 3-ish days. We'll do laundry at about the 1/2 way point (as is our normal practice) to keep bulk down.

I've attached some pics of my Vado with the setup I think we'll need. My wife's doesn't have room for the frame bag, but otherwise is identical. Total bag volume on my bike is 66L, 4L's less for my wife.

The only feature not in the pics is a new set of Schwalbe Marathon GT tires to upgrade from the OEM Specialized Trigger tires that will have over 1,000 miles on them by the time we leave. Still plenty of tread, but I'd rather leave with fresh, tougher tires.

It's hard to tell but I have upsized my brake rotors to 203mm front and 180mm rear. My wife's are stock. We'll have new pads (with heat sinks) before we leave.

In addition to the frame locks, we also have folding Abus locks.

Our touring gear always includes waterproof bike covers, layered cycling and street clothing including rain gear, 1st aid kit, flat repair kit, spare tubes, CO2 inflator & pump, basic bike tools, GPS, cell phone, maps, route sheets, and more than I can remember (we use a double sided checklist to pack). I've also put together a basic field repair kit with extra tools, lubes, tire slash patches, master chain links, zip ties, etc.

I do plan on having the bikes serviced by our LBS before we leave if for no other reason to be sure we've got the latest firmware.

Please feel free to share your experiences, observations and suggestions.

Keep the tires on the ground and pedal on. Maybe we'll see you out there.

 

[Saratoga Dave]

Wow, looks good to me. To infinity and beyond!

 

[rob_s]

Sure hope I'm as capable at that age. I just 'feel' 70 right now
Looks like a fun time. Best wishes on your adventure

 

[vincent]

Sounds like a blast! Have fun!

will any of your route be through areas with no cell service? If so you might consider a garmin inreach for emergencies- this also allows your friends and family to watch your route and keep an eye on you etc

I have actually seen some for rent in various places but I feel they are a good investment

 

[e-levity]

Sounds like a fun trip! Good for you and mrs sierra for getting out!

The photos make it appear like a lot more than 66L (which would just be a mid-sized backpack).
Mrs levity and I have bike-packed on regular (non-assist) bikes including sleeping bags, ground pads, tents, food and cooking gear with smaller loads.
The bags on the front look bulky and heavy. Have you ridden much with these to see how the weight and wind affect bike handling?

I'd recommend taking a short 2-3 day trip to see what you really need for your planned activities before embarking on a longer adventure.
Could you substitute lighter weight and/or more compact items?
If you find that you need everything and are comfortable riding with all the gear on the bikes, then go for it!

 

[Sierratim]

Thanks for the encouragement! I think it'll be a great trip. My wife's not as sure, but she's a trooper and will give it her all. After nearly 50 years, I guess she's got some trust in me.

 

[Sierratim]

Sounds like a blast! Have fun!

will any of your route be through areas with no cell service? If so you might consider a garmin inreach for emergencies- this also allows your friends and family to watch your route and keep an eye on you etc

I have actually seen some for rent in various places but I feel they are a good investment

Vincent,

I'm not certain that cell service will be available the entire route. Some years ago my youngest sons used a Spot transceiver on a 10 day unsupported backpacking trip around Yoesemite. It worked very well. I will look into both the Garmin and current Spot products.

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Sierratim]

Sounds like a fun trip! Good for you and mrs sierra for getting out!

The photos make it appear like a lot more than 66L (which would just be a mid-sized backpack).
Mrs levity and I have bike-packed on regular (non-assist) bikes including sleeping bags, ground pads, tents, food and cooking gear with smaller loads.
The bags on the front look bulky and heavy. Have you ridden much with these to see how the weight and wind affect bike handling?

I'd recommend taking a short 2-3 day trip to see what you really need for your planned activities before embarking on a longer adventure.
Could you substitute lighter weight and/or more compact items?
If you find that you need everything and are comfortable riding with all the gear on the bikes, then go for it!

e-levity,

The bags (with volume specs) on the bike are;

Ortlieb rear panniers (40L total)
Seattle Sports rack bag (8L)
Ortlieb frame bag (4L)
Ortlieb handle bar bag (9L)
Ortlieb Accessory Pack (3.5L)
Saddle bag (1L)
Tool kits (0.5L total)

Grand Total = 66L

In my (much) younger years I backpacked with a pack about this size. It held a lot of things we're not bringing; 1/2 a tent, sleeping bag, 3 meals a day, cook gear, etc. You may be right that 66L is more than we're going to need. We haven't test packed all our 'stuff' as yet, but it is on the pre-trip schedule. Happy to leave some bags off!

We have ridden with partial loads to test the new bags mostly. Your idea on a weekend length fully loaded trip is a good one. It's going on the schedule!

Thanks for the ideas.

Forgot to mention that we will be carrying 4 water bottles each that are not included in the above volume totals.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I'm so excited about your and Mrs. Sierratim journey. I have subscribed to this thread as I would like to ride out for a group tour to Czech Republic the coming August and the information here is useful. I also plan using the roads and stay at inns and motels.

Will you use spare batteries, @Sierratim? My journey would involve a lot of elevation gain so spare batteries are the must for me.

Before (and if) I go on the tour, I will do a 2-day introductory trip at the most difficult segment of the route. I intend to take my Vado there by car, ride out and return on the second day. If I'm capable, I would go for the group tour on the planned dates.

Czech Republic is a mountain & hilly country so it has to be the Vado, as I have found my other hub-motor e-bike is not good for climbing. Besides, I'm happy with my existing Elektrak tyres but might consider Schwalbe Marathon e-Plus tyres for low rolling resistance and top puncture-protection as promised by the maker.

Haven't you forgotten a power-bank for your smartphone? Mine has exceptionally capable battery that is good for 5.5 hours with the screen on, far more with the screen off. I will need a power-bank though.

I'm only worried with my carrier, with the big warning engraved: 20 kg max.

 

[Nxkharra]

Good luck. Fun trip.
first aid kit?

 

[Sierratim]

Good luck. Fun trip.
first aid kit?

Good point. A basic first aid kit is a must. The one we carry for day rides fits in a jersey pocket. We'll expand it for this mutli-day unsupported trip.

 

[Sierratim]

I'm so excited about your and Mrs. Sierratim journey. I have subscribed to this thread as I would like to ride out for a group tour to Czech Republic the coming August and the information here is useful. I also plan using the roads and stay at inns and motels.

Will you use spare batteries, @Sierratim? My journey would involve a lot of elevation gain so spare batteries are the must for me.

Before (and if) I go on the tour, I will do a 2-day introductory trip at the most difficult segment of the route. I intend to take my Vado there by car, ride out and return on the second day. If I'm capable, I would go for the group tour on the planned dates.

Czech Republic is a mountain & hilly country so it has to be the Vado, as I have found my other hub-motor e-bike is not good for climbing. Besides, I'm happy with my existing Elektrak tyres but might consider Schwalbe Marathon e-Plus tyres for low rolling resistance and top puncture-protection as promised by the maker.

Haven't you forgotten a power-bank for your smartphone? Mine has exceptionally capable battery that is good for 5.5 hours with the screen on, far more with the screen off. I will need a power-bank though.

I'm only worried with my carrier, with the big warning engraved: 20 kg max.

We're not planning to bring spare bike batteries. We get a solid 36 miles on a charge around where we live, usually riding with panniers loaded with groceries, hardware, etc. It's very hilly here, similar to sections on our planned trip. These days are planned for 30 miles max. On rolling ground we get well over 50 miles on a charge. This matches the topography of our longest planned rides.

An earlier post suggested a weekend shake out ride. Good idea. We'll be doing this as well.

I had considered the Electrak 2.0 tires but chose the Schwalbe Marathon GT tires for their suitability for pavement and packed gravel. This is at the cost of higher rolling resistance, but hey ebikes... They are rated "E Bike 50" for speeds up to 50km/hr and have one of Schwalbe's highest puncture and durability ratings.

Electronics have become a key part of most outings, haven't they. Ahh, the good ole days when you could get lost with just a map! A power bank for our phones is on our detailed packing list, as is a charger and usb hub for recharging the power bank, bike lights, phones, etc. If there's interest, I'd be happy to post this list. It's in Excel format.

Our first ebikes were also hub motor driven. I built them up based on entry level mountain bikes we'd had for years. The motors drew quite a bit more power than the Vado's, but didn't do a better job climbing. The Vado motor is just more efficient in that regard, lighter, too.

I believe the Vado rack is one of its weak spots. It's rated to 22kg, about 10% lower than most other non-expedition racks. It also doesn't allow clip on panniers like the Ortliebs we use to be attached when using any Racktime accessories hence our Seattle Sport rack trunk bags. As nearly all our gear is clothing, we should be able to pack our rack mounted bags to total well below the 22kg rack rating. I will be verifying this as a part of our planned pre-trip pack.

I'd certainly like to hear how your group tour goes. Keep in touch.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

If there's interest, I'd be happy to post this list. It's in Excel format.

Please do. It will help me.

It also doesn't allow clip on panniers like the Ortliebs

How comes? I regularly attach two different Ortlieb panniers with the new system QL 2.1 to the Racktime carrier of my Vado... The panniers are Ortlieb Back Roller and Ortlieb E-mate.
Here, a Specialized dealer demonstrates the Ortlieb E-mate on Turbo Vado

The QL 2.1 system is universal.

 

[Sierratim]

Please do. It will help me.


How comes? I regularly attach two different Ortlieb panniers with the new system QL 2.1 to the Racktime carrier of my Vado... The panniers are Ortlieb Back Roller and Ortlieb E-mate.
Here, a Specialized dealer demonstrates the Ortlieb E-mate on Turbo Vado

The QL 2.1 system is universal.

Stefan Mikes,

My cycling checklist is attached. My wife uses a slightly modified version, for some clothing items mostly. I had to convert the Excel file to PDF to get this forum to accept the upload so editing is now an issue. I haven't yet revised this list for our ebike tour. We've been using these lists for some years for our supported bike tours. We rent bikes for these tours but bring our own helmets, saddles and SPD pedals.

I do agree that the Ortlieb panniers that apparently we both use do clip onto the horizontal rail of the Vado's Racktime rack just fine. My comment, "...doesn't allow clip-on panniers like the Ortliebs we use to be attached when using any Racktime accessories ..." had intended to point out an interference issue between clip-on panniers and Racktime accessories. The pannier clips rise above the rack's horizontal top rail preventing the Racktime accessories for snapping into place as they sit flush with the top rail. Of course, the reverse is true as well; clip-on panniers cannot be attached to the top rail when Racktime accessories are snapped into the rack. Our mechanical bikes also have Racktime racks, but with two horizontal rails allowing Racktime accessories to be snapped into place and clip-on panniers to be clipped onto the second slightly lower rail. Works great. Too bad the Vado rack doesn't have this second horizontal rail. Some other ebike manufacturers, such as Giant, provide a similar double rail version of their racks on some models for the same purpose.

Hope this helps.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Thank you @Sierratim for the list! Will help me a lot.

Regarding the rack/panniers: My fault, I apologize. All is clear now.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Sounds like a great trip. Good on you!

There is a section on the forum here on e-bike touring and travel and your posts would be very welcome there. I'd love to see your route plan in particular. Oh, and there's nothing wrong with credit card touring.

Having done a few bike tours (and a few on e-bikes) all I can say is that you are probably taking Too Much Stuff. So I'd go through your gear lists and perhaps rethink things a bit.

... actually, having looked at your gear list, there are a few things I think you are missing and there are definitely some cases where you are taking Too Much Stuff. In general, I think you'd have more fun and an easier time of it if you planned on doing laundry every other day rather than every four days. That would greatly reduce the bulk of stuff you are carrying and also greatly reduce the amount of dirty stinking clothes you are carrying at any given time. If you are credit card touring laundry is widely available at most (well, in practice nearly all) hotels.

Having said that, I do have a few other suggestions:

• A robe? That is likely to be seriously bulky, and in addition when it becomes wet and/or dirty it will be a serious liability in your bags. If you really feel you need a robe stay at nice hotels that have robes for guests.
• Rain pants are unlikely to be needed in the Willamette Valley during the summer months. When it rains it is unlikely to be cold enough to need them and your legs are waterproof. I'd consider finding a semi-decent pair of wind pants that can be halfway presentable in town and will also keep you warm on a cool day.
• You are packing a truly remarkable number of socks (8 pair). I'd suggest bringing fewer and also trying to find socks that will both work well for riding and for lazing around town at the end of the day. Maybe bring one pair of nice warm fluffy socks to wear in your room on a cool night.
• There is a mismatch where you are bringing four pair of underwear, four pair of bike shorts, and only three jerseys. I would bring two pair of bike shorts (actually liners), two jerseys, one pair of underwear (that really is only town wear), and a pair of swim trunks that I can wear while washing everything else.

Now for stuff you ought to bring that you aren't:

• I usually take at least one piece of warm clothing for my upper body. If you can get a lightweight insulated vest that will be nice if you are waiting on the side of the road on a cool day. Fleece is bulkier but fleece vests aren't so bad. But for the Willamette in summer that probably isn't strictly necessary.
• Find some mesh laundry bags. Get a small one that you can throw in the washer and dryer with your socks and gloves to keep the hotel laundry from eating those critical items. Also find a larger one that you can use to carry stinky, wet, and dirty clothing on your rear rack rather than inside your panniers, which should be reserved for dry and more-or-less clean clothes. Also, usually they use a toggle and a loop closure, make sure to shorten up the loop so it doesn't get caught in your bike while riding.
• Bring some straps so you can strap things like that laundry bag on your bike. 2 pair is probably plenty, one short and one longer but not too long.
• Blinkies. I didn't see them on the list. For you and your wife I would bring three, two nice ones that you'd normally use and one cheap one to use when you inevitably have one fall off.
• You list a hat. Usually I will bring a buff, a bandana, a fleece hat, and a sun hat.
• Lip balm.
• I like the reflective velcro loops you put on your pants legs, both to be seen while riding and to keep your pants legs from getting caught in the chain.
• Fender and rack bolts. Also, have the bike shop put loctite on those bolts before your trip
• Valve core remover and spoke wrench if your multi-tool doesn't have one.
• A spare spoke (or a fiberfix spoke).
• A couple of spare valve cores (less necessary if you have several spare tubes).
• A tire boot (a Canadian $5 bill is the preferred international standard for a tire boot).
• Duct tape and electrical tape. If you hunt around you can find extra-compact rolls of duct tape. I usually just tape some around my bike pump.

These are just suggestions! I go crazy light but still find myself shipping stuff home. After a few long days even toenails seem like an insane and unnecessary luxury.

 

[Sierratim]

Sounds like a great trip. Good on you!

There is a section on the forum here on e-bike touring and travel and your posts would be very welcome there. I'd love to see your route plan in particular. Oh, and there's nothing wrong with credit card touring.

Having done a few bike tours (and a few on e-bikes) all I can say is that you are probably taking Too Much Stuff. So I'd go through your gear lists and perhaps rethink things a bit.

... actually, having looked at your gear list, there are a few things I think you are missing and there are definitely some cases where you are taking Too Much Stuff. In general, I think you'd have more fun and an easier time of it if you planned on doing laundry every other day rather than every four days. That would greatly reduce the bulk of stuff you are carrying and also greatly reduce the amount of dirty stinking clothes you are carrying at any given time. If you are credit card touring laundry is widely available at most (well, in practice nearly all) hotels.

Having said that, I do have a few other suggestions:

• A robe? That is likely to be seriously bulky, and in addition when it becomes wet and/or dirty it will be a serious liability in your bags. If you really feel you need a robe stay at nice hotels that have robes for guests.
• Rain pants are unlikely to be needed in the Willamette Valley during the summer months. When it rains it is unlikely to be cold enough to need them and your legs are waterproof. I'd consider finding a semi-decent pair of wind pants that can be halfway presentable in town and will also keep you warm on a cool day.
• You are packing a truly remarkable number of socks (8 pair). I'd suggest bringing fewer and also trying to find socks that will both work well for riding and for lazing around town at the end of the day. Maybe bring one pair of nice warm fluffy socks to wear in your room on a cool night.
• There is a mismatch where you are bringing four pair of underwear, four pair of bike shorts, and only three jerseys. I would bring two pair of bike shorts (actually liners), two jerseys, one pair of underwear (that really is only town wear), and a pair of swim trunks that I can wear while washing everything else.

Now for stuff you ought to bring that you aren't:

• I usually take at least one piece of warm clothing for my upper body. If you can get a lightweight insulated vest that will be nice if you are waiting on the side of the road on a cool day. Fleece is bulkier but fleece vests aren't so bad. But for the Willamette in summer that probably isn't strictly necessary.
• Find some mesh laundry bags. Get a small one that you can throw in the washer and dryer with your socks and gloves to keep the hotel laundry from eating those critical items. Also find a larger one that you can use to carry stinky, wet, and dirty clothing on your rear rack rather than inside your panniers, which should be reserved for dry and more-or-less clean clothes. Also, usually they use a toggle and a loop closure, make sure to shorten up the loop so it doesn't get caught in your bike while riding.
• Bring some straps so you can strap things like that laundry bag on your bike. 2 pair is probably plenty, one short and one longer but not too long.
• Blinkies. I didn't see them on the list. For you and your wife I would bring three, two nice ones that you'd normally use and one cheap one to use when you inevitably have one fall off.
• You list a hat. Usually I will bring a buff, a bandana, a fleece hat, and a sun hat.
• Lip balm.
• I like the reflective velcro loops you put on your pants legs, both to be seen while riding and to keep your pants legs from getting caught in the chain.
• Fender and rack bolts. Also, have the bike shop put loctite on those bolts before your trip
• Valve core remover and spoke wrench if your multi-tool doesn't have one.
• A spare spoke (or a fiberfix spoke).
• A couple of spare valve cores (less necessary if you have several spare tubes).
• A tire boot (a Canadian $5 bill is the preferred international standard for a tire boot).
• Duct tape and electrical tape. If you hunt around you can find extra-compact rolls of duct tape. I usually just tape some around my bike pump.

These are just suggestions! I go crazy light but still find myself shipping stuff home. After a few long days even toenails seem like an insane and unnecessary luxury.

"Credit card touring"; I like it! I'd been searching for a term. Sounds like a winner.

I do like all your suggestions and will work them into the "unsupported" version of our check list. Since we've only done fully supported touring (a van takes your luggage to the next inn) things like a robe make more sense. I'm sure our unsupported version of this list will be "meaner and leaner", at least by our standards.

Thanks for all your suggestions.

I am planning on joining the touring section of the forum to discuss specifics on the route, but thanks for the reminder.

BTW - We use $1 bills for tire boots, being the thrifty children of depression era parents!

 

[Nxkharra]

"Credit card touring"; I like it! I'd been searching for a term. Sounds like a winner.

I do like all your suggestions and will work them into the "unsupported" version of our check list. Since we've only done fully supported touring (a van takes your luggage to the next inn) things like a robe make more sense. I'm sure our unsupported version of this list will be "meaner and leaner", at least by our standards.

Thanks for all your suggestions.

I am planning on joining the touring section of the forum to discuss specifics on the route, but thanks for the reminder.

BTW - We use $1 bills for tire boots, being the thrifty children of depression era parents!

What is tire boot?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

What is tire boot?

I wondered myself...

Booting a Tire - WesternBikeworks 166

A short primer on emergency bicycle tire repair.

www.westernbikeworks.com

 

[Sierratim]

Thank you @Sierratim for the list! Will help me a lot.

Regarding the rack/panniers: My fault, I apologize. All is clear now.

No worries!