Ultimate Electric Bike - long range, high power, all terrain all weather bike, no registration...

[NoobForBikes]

The main point is legal is 750W and if one would add power to it with pedaling, it could be around 1000W.

I am still skeptic if that is enough to pull a trailer uphill. I guess should build a powerful e-bike and then experiment a little bit.
If nothing comes out of it, at least I have an e-bike for my own rides

 

[scrambler]

Nicolai Eboxx Ultra

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[Solarcabin]

The problem you run in to with any EV is at some point the weight of the batteries is more than the power it can generate to move that weight.

They call that the law of diminishing returns: "The law of Diminishing Returns states that the result of adding a factor of production is a smaller increase in output. The addition of any amounts of a factor of production, after some best possible level of capacity utilization, will inevitably capitulate decreased per-unit incremental returns."

That is why EV manufacturers are trying to develop batteries that weigh less and motors that have less friction to get as much power as they can from an EV.

Another way to overcome that is to carry some form of power generation with the vehicle such as solar panels and they make very lightweight panels that can recharge an EV but it takes a lot of square footage to generate enough power to power an EV for any significant distance.

There are some solar gliders that have flown for 70 hours straight. Tesla holds the record for 315 miles continues driving and the longest ebike range to date is 367 miles on a Delfast.

More ebikes are getting in to the 80 mile range now which is about as long as anyone would probably want to ride a bike continually at speeds of 20 miles an hour on average.

With PAS the rider can provide a good portion of the power for much longer distances but the human body still has limits and requires food, water and rest. "Biker breaks Guinness record on Trace. The record – for the longest continuous bike ride – had been 350 miles. As Dirk Homeier stopped abruptly after crossing the finish line, he bowed his head against the handle bars in prayer – some 31 hours, 46 minutes and 55 seconds after he began the trip."

The lighter the vehicle and less resistance the farther you can go but at some point diminishing returns happens and there are no perpetual motion machines possible says the laws of physics.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

2. Can you reduce power down to 1000 Watts for light cruising speeds on the road so it is still legal

The Original Post here is just an absurd.
The European law reads a bike can be assisted with an electric motor of 250 W nominal power (the peak power can be greater than that) and with the speed limited to 25 km/h.
It is possible to ride a L1e-B type vehicle: the power limit is 4 kW, and the maximum speed of 45 km/h. Such a vehicle has to come with the EU Certificate of Compliance (i.e., be type approved), be registered, insured, carry the number plate, and be equipped with numerous safety devices to be certified. Wearing helmet is mandatory, and bike paths cannot be ridden (with the exception of Denmark).

Not an electric motorcycle

You have precisely defined an illegal electric motorcycle that won't be type-approved in any case. Any police officer will be able to recognize a Frankenbike; take part in an accident and you're gonna go to jail. (In France, expect a fine of EUR30000 just for riding an illegal e-bike).

peddling

It's "pedalling".

(Are you in Russia? Russia follows the European e-bike law but of course you can do what you like in Russia )

 

[Merle Nelson]

#3 Solar panels for any covering surface.

 

[NoobForBikes]

The Original Post here is just an absurd.
The European law reads a bike can be assisted with an electric motor of 250 W nominal power (the peak power can be greater than that) and with the speed limited to 25 km/h.
It is possible to ride a L1e-B type vehicle: the power limit is 4 kW, and the maximum speed of 45 km/h. Such a vehicle has to come with the EU Certificate of Compliance (i.e., be type approved), be registered, insured, carry the number plate, and be equipped with numerous safety devices to be certified. Wearing helmet is mandatory, and bike paths cannot be ridden (with the exception of Denmark).

You have precisely defined an illegal electric motorcycle that won't be type-approved at any case. Any police officer will be able to recognize a Frankenbike; take part in an accident and you're gonna go to jail. (In France, expect a fine of EUR30000 just for riding an illegal e-bike).

It's "pedalling".

(Are you in Russia? Russia follows the European e-bike law but of course you can do what you like in Russia )

Sadly I am in the EU and 250 W is a joke.... I don't know why are we so scared of anything that can can drive.

E-bikes in the US can have a maximum power of 750 watts and a max speed of 32 km/h (20 mph).

I wish I were an American. This continent is a joke. Whenever I saw Americans do something cool, I tried to copy them (yes I copy Americans, not ashamed to admit it) and they wouldn't let me.

1. making camp fires in Colorado legal (in Austria jail time)
2. erecting a tent in USA in almost all states legal (in Austria you must sit in a parking lot they call camping place and then you can hear the fatso fart in his tent 2 meters away from you)
3. hunting with bow and arrow (illegal in Austria)
4. doing prank calls as a teenager (illegal in Austria, must have consent for recording)
5. having an e-bike that can go 32 kmph (ILLEGAL!!) Seriously

Imagine living in a country where you cannot make a camp fire, cannot erect a tent and your bike is not allowed to go 32 kmph and you are not allowed to use a bow and arrow.
What do you actually do in nature then? So retarded... Literally everyone has that freedom to go to the nature and enjoy a night or two.
Do I have to go on?

I just wish we had Mr. George Washington instead of all this dumb "culture" and "tradition". I hate my life yeah....
However, yes I plan to use my bike in Russia and USA. My fiance has a house in California. So the laws of Europe will hopefully not apply to our trips

 

[NoobForBikes]

The problem you run in to with any EV is at some point the weight of the batteries is more than the power it can generate to move that weight.

They call that the law of diminishing returns: "The law of Diminishing Returns states that the result of adding a factor of production is a smaller increase in output. The addition of any amounts of a factor of production, after some best possible level of capacity utilization, will inevitably capitulate decreased per-unit incremental returns."

That is why EV manufacturers are trying to develop batteries that weigh less and motors that have less friction to get as much power as they can from an EV.

Another way to overcome that is to carry some form of power generation with the vehicle such as solar panels and they make very lightweight panels that can recharge an EV but it takes a lot of square footage to generate enough power to power an EV for any significant distance.

There are some solar gliders that have flown for 70 hours straight. Tesla holds the record for 315 miles continues driving and the longest ebike range to date is 367 miles on a Delfast.

More ebikes are getting in to the 80 mile range now which is about as long as anyone would probably want to ride a bike continually at speeds of 20 miles an hour on average.

With PAS the rider can provide a good portion of the power for much longer distances but the human body still has limits and requires food, water and rest. "Biker breaks Guinness record on Trace. The record – for the longest continuous bike ride – had been 350 miles. As Dirk Homeier stopped abruptly after crossing the finish line, he bowed his head against the handle bars in prayer – some 31 hours, 46 minutes and 55 seconds after he began the trip."

The lighter the vehicle and less resistance the farther you can go but at some point diminishing returns happens and there are no perpetual motion machines possible says the laws of physics.

80 mile range sounds really way more than enough

 

[NoobForBikes]

I think that even people in China have more freedom than Austria. Now they are making this mandatory vaccination for all citizens... What the hell did we get wrong about being a republic? Do we even understand the INALIENABLE rights?! It is such a shame to call these retarded national states "republics" when they have no ability to even understand what individual freedom means. Hopefully in January I am finally in America and will build my bikes

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I think that even people in China have more freedom than Austria. Now they are making this mandatory vaccination for all citizens... What the hell did we get wrong about being a republic? Do we even understand the INALIENABLE rights?! It is such a shame to call these retarded national states "republics" when they have no ability to even understand what individual freedom means. Hopefully in January I am finally in America and will build my bikes

Aha. So you're that type of a person.
Break your neck.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Sadly I am in the EU and 250 W is a joke.... I don't know why are we so scared of anything that can can drive.

E-bikes in the US can have a maximum power of 750 watts and a max speed of 32 km/h (20 mph).

I wish I were an American. This continent is a joke. Whenever I saw Americans do something cool, I tried to copy them (yes I copy Americans, not ashamed to admit it) and they wouldn't let me.

1. making camp fires in Colorado legal (in Austria jail time)
2. erecting a tent in USA in almost all states legal (in Austria you must sit in a parking lot they call camping place and then you can hear the fatso fart in his tent 2 meters away from you)
3. hunting with bow and arrow (illegal in Austria)
4. doing prank calls as a teenager (illegal in Austria, must have consent for recording)
5. having an e-bike that can go 32 kmph (ILLEGAL!!) Seriously

Imagine living in a country where you cannot make a camp fire, cannot erect a tent and your bike is not allowed to go 32 kmph and you are not allowed to use a bow and arrow.
What do you actually do in nature then? So retarded... Literally everyone has that freedom to go to the nature and enjoy a night or two.
Do I have to go on?

I just wish we had Mr. George Washington instead of all this dumb "culture" and "tradition". I hate my life yeah....
However, yes I plan to use my bike in Russia and USA. My fiance has a house in California. So the laws of Europe will hopefully not apply to our trips

United States has its laws, too. E-bike laws are more lenient there than these are in Europe. Still, access to most of U.S. National Parks is forbidden for any e-bike, and some parks allow Class 1 only. There are many U.S. jurisdictions where e-bikes are not allowed. And yes, many Americans just don't care.

There is one fact that might (I stress it out: might) prove the EU laws are good: There are 10 times as many e-bikes in EU than in the whole North America. And no one stops you riding e-bike in a European national park if traditional bikes are allowed there.

Erecting a tent? Go to Sweden: they have the Free Access Right. Only behave there.

Your posts, Noob, clearly tell me you even didn't stand next to a premium EU e-bike Learn that an "all terrain, all weather" e-bike does not even exist. What brings you into Austrian mountains (e-MTB) is even not remotely appropriate for urban commuting... But why do I waste my breath in the first place?

 

[Rider777]

The Original Post here is just an absurd.
The European law reads a bike can be assisted with an electric motor of 250 W nominal power (the peak power can be greater than that) and with the speed limited to 25 km/h.
It is possible to ride a L1e-B type vehicle: the power limit is 4 kW, and the maximum speed of 45 km/h. Such a vehicle has to come with the EU Certificate of Compliance (i.e., be type approved), be registered, insured, carry the number plate, and be equipped with numerous safety devices to be certified. Wearing helmet is mandatory, and bike paths cannot be ridden (with the exception of Denmark).

You have precisely defined an illegal electric motorcycle that won't be type-approved at any case. Any police officer will be able to recognize a Frankenbike; take part in an accident and you're gonna go to jail. (In France, expect a fine of EUR30000 just for riding an illegal e-bike).

It's "pedalling".

(Are you in Russia? Russia follows the European e-bike law but of course you can do what you like in Russia )

This ^ is why I posted earlier “I want my :58 back and a refund”.

Stefan has a better way to convey my message. And he was willing to take the time to construct and type it here.

Thanks.

 

[NoobForBikes]

United States has its laws, too. E-bike laws are more lenient there than these are in Europe. Still, access to most of U.S. National Parks is forbidden for any e-bike, and some parks allow Class 1 only. There are many U.S. jurisdictions where e-bikes are not allowed. And yes, many Americans just don't care.

There is one fact that might (I stress it out: might) prove the EU laws are good: There are 10 times as many e-bikes in EU than in the whole North America. And no one stops you riding e-bike in a European national park if traditional bikes are allowed there.

Erecting a tent? Go to Sweden: they have the Free Access Right. Only behave there.

Your posts, Noob, clearly tell me you even didn't stand next to a premium EU e-bike Learn that an "all terrain, all weather" e-bike does not even exist. What brings you into Austrian mountains (e-MTB) is even not remotely appropriate for urban commuting... But why do I waste my breath in the first place?

You know, our beloved Europe would be a much better place if we could just agree that George Washington is better than a freaking king and Jesus Christ and and 750 Watts is the minimum freedom one should have
Instead of writing these dumb replies, just accept the freedom.

I was like this maybe 10 years ago and always didn't understand why is it that Americans have more freedom and can do whatever they want. But I changed... I read their amendments and their constitution and I tried to compare it with the EU constitution. To my surprise, we don't even have one. What a joke being born here.

Aha. So you're that type of a person.
Break your neck.

In Europe people always have boxes in their heads and they try to put you in one of those boxes. Extremely frustrating because I probably am not "that type of a person". I actually am vaccinated and support millions of immigrants to come to Poland from Belarus. But it is crazy to have people forcefully vaccinated and make it mandatory for the entire population of Austria against their will. I am not a conservative or a Trump fan for saying that. I say this as I am graduating from a medical university this year. One should have freedom over his body, but hey, it's Poland...

I think 750W + pedaling is more than enough to tow 100 kg. If it is not quite steep, still possible.

In fact, what I just saw in that video is very encouraging.

I talked to an engineer working at Magna here and he says 40-50 kilograms should be invested in having a more powerful engine in the trailer and all the batteries. Trailer engine should not be used on the road and only towed and that way it is legal.

 

[NoobForBikes]

United States has its laws, too. E-bike laws are more lenient there than these are in Europe. Still, access to most of U.S. National Parks is forbidden for any e-bike, and some parks allow Class 1 only. There are many U.S. jurisdictions where e-bikes are not allowed. And yes, many Americans just don't care.

There is one fact that might (I stress it out: might) prove the EU laws are good: There are 10 times as many e-bikes in EU than in the whole North America. And no one stops you riding e-bike in a European national park if traditional bikes are allowed there.

Erecting a tent? Go to Sweden: they have the Free Access Right. Only behave there.

Your posts, Noob, clearly tell me you even didn't stand next to a premium EU e-bike Learn that an "all terrain, all weather" e-bike does not even exist. What brings you into Austrian mountains (e-MTB) is even not remotely appropriate for urban commuting... But why do I waste my breath in the first place?

if you so badly want to put me in a box here:

I agree with almost everything this American man has said. Idk what political BOX or type of a person it is, but I agree with him. And he is right... America is exceptional and was exceptional compared to our dumb European nations.

 

[NoobForBikes]

United States has its laws, too. E-bike laws are more lenient there than these are in Europe. Still, access to most of U.S. National Parks is forbidden for any e-bike, and some parks allow Class 1 only. There are many U.S. jurisdictions where e-bikes are not allowed. And yes, many Americans just don't care.

There is one fact that might (I stress it out: might) prove the EU laws are good: There are 10 times as many e-bikes in EU than in the whole North America. And no one stops you riding e-bike in a European national park if traditional bikes are allowed there.

Erecting a tent? Go to Sweden: they have the Free Access Right. Only behave there.

Your posts, Noob, clearly tell me you even didn't stand next to a premium EU e-bike Learn that an "all terrain, all weather" e-bike does not even exist. What brings you into Austrian mountains (e-MTB) is even not remotely appropriate for urban commuting... But why do I waste my breath in the first place?

And no! I donät want to go all the way to a freaking Sweden and pass through 123123124 countries to erect a freaking tent!
Your replies are worthless and people like you do not deserve to have the freedom Americans enjoy. So frustrating...

You literally told me to go thousands of kilometers to erect a freaking tent. Are you seriously that ignorant about the lack of freedom in Europe?

 

[Stefan Mikes]

And no! I donät want to go all the way to a freaking Sweden and pass through 123123124 countries to erect a freaking tent!
Your replies are worthless and people like you do not deserve to have the freedom Americans enjoy. So frustrating...

You literally told me to go thousands of kilometers to erect a freaking tent. Are you seriously that ignorant about the lack of freedom in Europe?

As I said I don't intend to waste my breath to talk with you. Yes, Europe is a land of well understood freedom, related to the society more than to an individual. It is of course not your fault to live in a country that is 3.7 times smaller than Poland is, and which is 5.5 times smaller than Sweden, so there is not so much space to erect the tent wherever you like (Austrian landowners have their say, too).

Yes, America is a land of freedom. You are free to get fired from your work at any time, and you are free to not have any medical care there, either.

America is exceptional and was exceptional compared to our dumb European nations.

Exceptionally good with covid handling.

You know, our beloved Europe would be a much better place if we could just agree that George Washington is better than a freaking king and Jesus Christ and and 750 Watts is the minimum freedom one should have

America is a big country. Austria is only as big as South Carolina, the 40th U.S. state per area. Americans need more power and more lenient Class 3 rule to commute over long distances fast. Still, anything bigger than 750 W and faster than 28 mph is illegal there.

Taken into account how "good" you understand an "ultimate e-bike", I should have not said a word in your thread.

 

[indianajo]

You literally told me to go thousands of kilometers to erect a freaking tent. Are you seriously that ignorant about the lack of freedom in Europe?

Europe has too many people. In Europe if you become useless to others, you live in a council house with an allowance for food. So in Europe you have high taxes, including registration & excise tax on anything resembling a motor home. In the US if you become useless without paying your dues (SocialSecurity,pension or savings) you live in a coat on the ground and eat bad food at a charity once a day if you are lucky. My church houses a charity that feeds >100 homeless or useless twice a week. THe food is poisonous to diabetics, lacks essential nutrients, and the high fat content plugs up arteries in the heart.
Your solar panels would limit you to 2 kph in any environment that has wind. Not to mention all that weight & frontal area. Long distance tourers travel light on unpowered bikes, mostly.
Sounds as if you are ready to emigrate. I moved from crowded Houston age 30 to this area, where I have 18 m to nearest neighbor in town where there are supplies & services, and 500 m to nearest neighbor at my summer camp where I carry everything in by bicycle (weekly) or rental truck (yearly). Speak any useful languages? A 2nd language helps the immigrant become useful quickly, and German is not a world language. Spanish covers a part of the world (S America) where there is a lot of freedom.

 

[NoobForBikes]

A 2nd language

I speak somewhat Polish A 2 level and Czech B1 level and perfectly good German. My grandfather was a German who lived in Czech. I know, quite useless languages, just like everything else in this continent.

I passed USMLE step 1 and 2 and only have to do STEP 3 now. I had a pretty good score so I think I will get a job there, I hope. I really believe in America... the American dream

 

[NoobForBikes]

So fellas, after this second drunk night with my friend engineer, we decided we are going to build this. It will be one of a kind ATV vehicle but it will be towed as a trailer with an e-Bike.


1. We will install 750 W engine motor to make it legal in the U.S.
2. It will be able to tow the trailer with a much more powerful engine and installable rubber tracks.
3. We understand that power will drain quickly so constant run is most likely not possible. We will however have folded solar panels and we will build a special suit as well as everything else on the bike to be made out of solar panels
4. Because of the weight of the batteries, there will be limited space for personal gear but definitely enough for a tent and some basic food or maybe a rifle if one likes to hunt.

Here is an amazing example of what a man can do with a trailer on his 750 W e bike:

Keep in mind this animal is very heavy, the terrain is horrible, he goes up hill and has a huge backpack and other equipment.

Funny information: Unlike other EU countries, Austria actually allows 600W Still I will go for 750W because I plan to use it in the U.S.

I will post videos as we build two of these. We will first build one to see if it all works at all.

 

[NoobForBikes]

As I said I don't intend to waste my breath to talk with you. Yes, Europe is a land of well understood freedom, related to the society more than to an individual. It is of course not your fault to live in a country that is 3.7 times smaller than Poland is, and which is 5.5 times smaller than Sweden, so there is not so much space to erect the tent wherever you like (Austrian landowners have their say, too).

Yes, America is a land of freedom. You are free to get fired from your work at any time, and you are free to not have any medical care there, either.


Exceptionally good with covid handling.


America is a big country. Austria is only as big as South Carolina, the 40th U.S. state per area. Americans need more power and more lenient Class 3 rule to commute over long distances fast. Still, anything bigger than 750 W and faster than 28 mph is illegal there.

Taken into account how "good" you understand an "ultimate e-bike", I should have not said a word in your thread.

Oh and also for all "my" fellow Europeans, if they get scared from ALL THAT FREAKING RAGING POWER PACKED in this mans hunting bike,

watch this, so you understand Americans used to charge at European imperialists with much scarier things during the revolutionary war. Be happy he's not as badass as Mr. George Washington
So sleep calmly
Good night

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Funny information: Unlike other EU countries, Austria actually allows 600W

It only means you cannot even read in your mother's tongue...

Rechtsgrundlage für E-Bikes & Pedelecs | ÖAMTC

Was ist ein E-Bike und wie sind die rechtlichen Bestimmungen? Rechtsgrundlagen zu E-Bikes, Pedelecs und Co.

www.oeamtc.at

In German:
Definition Elektro-Fahrrad, E-Bike oder Pedelec
Das Fahrrad ist in der StVO zunächst definiert als ein Fahrzeug, das mit einer Vorrichtung zur Übertragung der menschlichen Kraft auf die Antriebsräder ausgestattet ist. Aber auch Fahrräder mit Tretunterstützung, sogenannte Pedelecs, und E-Bikes, also elektrisch angetriebene Fahrräder ohne Tretunterstützung, sind Fahrrad im Sinne der StVO. Sowohl bei Pedelecs als auch bei E-Bikes, darf die maximale Antriebsleistung des E-Motors 600 Watt nicht übersteigen und die Bauartgeschwindigkeit nicht höher als 25 km/h sein. Von der Maximalleistung zu unterscheiden ist die Nenndauerleistung, also die Leistung, welche über einen Zeitraum von 30 Minuten dauerhaft abgegeben werden kann. Der aktuellen Typengenehmigungsverordnung der EU folgend, beträgt die maximale Nenndauerleistung für Pedelecs 250 Watt. Wird einer dieser Werte überschritten, so handelt es sich nicht mehr um ein Fahrrad, sondern um ein Moped.

In English:
Definition of electric bike, e-bike or pedelec
The bicycle is initially defined in the StVO as a vehicle that is equipped with a device for transmitting human power to the drive wheels. But also bicycles with pedal assistance, so-called pedelecs, and e-bikes, i.e. electrically powered bicycles without pedal assistance, are bicycles within the meaning of the StVO. For both pedelecs and e-bikes, the maximum drive power of the e-motor must not exceed 600 watts and the design speed must not be higher than 25 km / h. A distinction must be made between the nominal continuous output, i.e. the output that can be continuously delivered over a period of 30 minutes. In accordance with the current EU type approval regulation, the maximum rated continuous power for pedelecs is 250 watts. If one of these values is exceeded, it is no longer a bicycle, but a moped.
------------------
Austria makes distinction between the maximum motor power (motor peak power) -- and that's 600 W -- and the nominal rated continuous power, which is 250 W. Meaning, Austria recognizes the difference between the nominal and peak motor power (other EU countries do not pay attention to what the max peak power is).

Having said the above:

• Specialized 1.3 or 2.2 motor has the nominal continuous power of 250 W but the maximum peak power of 550 W
• Giant SyncDrive Pro (Yamaha PW-X2) offers the nominal continuous power of 250 W but the maximum peak power of 520 W
• Bosch Gen 4 Performance Line CX motor is rated for 250 W continuous power but reportedly it can pump up to 850 W (such a motor is legal in Germany but technically illegal in Austria if anybody ever cared)
• Shimano EP8 motor is 250 W nominal, 500 W max peak power.

Sweet dreams about living in America!