Ultimate Electric Bike - long range, high power, all terrain all weather bike, no registration...

[NoobForBikes]

10,000 watts? That´s 13+ hp.. get a Honda Super Cub; what you want is a motorcycle.

Discussion here was really helpful for me to change the concept.

So now the aim is to create an e-bike which can tow a trailer. Trailer will pack power needed to go off-road since that amount of power is not legal on the road.

The aim is basically: Have a bike that can take you camping FAR, and allows you to also get OFF the road and access deeper parts of the nature with your tent, no gas and no recharging at power stations required. Sort of like a sailing boat in the ocean. Lower power, slow but can get you anywhere. But most sailing yachts have a more powerful engine as well just in case they need it.

So if you have a racing motorcycle you cannot go off-road. It costs money to keep it running and even if you get a dirt motorbike, you have to register it and it still requires money. Hitting a snowy area, you'd still need a trailer that is powered on its own.

So there is no bike or motorbike that can get you FAR and ANYWHERE to go camping FOR FREE. And so in my opinion an e-bike equipped with a an ATV trailer is kind of maybe giving you that possibility.

So the trailer should be designed as an ATV basically but it should be very very lightweight. Just enough to carry your equipment, a tent and some food.
That is the only way I see this somehow being possible considering: 1. legal problems 2. power supply issues.
Even with this design, you'd probably be forced to stay camping a day or two sometimes somewhere just charging your batteries. But hey, that's part of the adventure

A game changer would be 1. more lightweight engines in the future with more power 2. lightweight batteries with more energy stored in them.


A question that could destroy the entire idea: The trailer will be basically a very lightweight electrically powered ATV and here are some problems:

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(when I say it will be a lightweight ATV, I do not refer to these standard ATVS, we will have to design it differently so it is easily towed and tires provide very low friction only once on the road, We will have to think this through somehow, we need some blueprints how to do this)

 

[NoobForBikes]

I will post what we make and you can bet I will have an American flag on it

 

[john peck]

I´m 60% into a build uses a 500w front whi & an efficient 40 cc rear belt drive, 2150w/ 3 hp. It mounts
a 45 kilo trailer. range 300+ mi.( 200+ per gal.) Today was mostly sorting out the harness & handlebar
configuration. Itś a compromise & not pretty, but it´ll work. Rear wheel already running, all wheel drive
soon. The scary part is learning how to ride it.

 

[dodgeman]

Get a bike, maybe a regular road bike, not an e bike, and go out and ride 80 miles, then do it again the next day. If you can do that, and then are willing to do that day after day, then this adventure is for you.

 

[retiredNH]

We'd all love to have more powerful, lighter batteries, but it isn't going to happen with current technology. And your dream machine won't either, with current technology. As dodgeman has suggested, others have dealt with this problem by getting in shape and using the best, most easily recharged, most portable power system in the world, the human body and its muscles. Forget the ebike approach. Your dream is completely unrealistic with any existing technology except human muscle, or an old school horse. And I note that many an expedition and back country trips in remote areas still use pack animals. None, even ones with unlimited funds, use ebikes.

 

[ChezCheese:)]

Looking forward to your response to actually riding an ebike. I'm assuming at 600w, it is a hub drive, yes?

 

[john peck]

Get a bike, maybe a regular road bike, not an e bike, and go out and ride 80 miles, then do it again the next day. If you can do that, and then are willing to do that day after day, then this adventure is for you.

Being 73 in 2 days & having suffered a variety of life threatening injuries involving numerous fractures & other
wounds, I can forego 80 mi roady ride though I stiill have one with 10K miles on it. I don´t feel the least bit
guilty about using a motor, I still pedal 70+ mi a week. i´ve driven less than 1500 miles this year, less than
500 last year.

 

[Bike Tourist]

It seems to me that your wanting so much power means you want to tour with little effort on your part. That's fine, but maybe you should consider a motorcycle (apart from that registration thing that you don't want to deal either). Many existing ebikes would work for a bicycle tour providing you were in shape and downsized you load to something reasonable to carry without the trailer.

 

[NoobForBikes]

Hello everyone, I tried an e bike with 600W peak power, 250 continuous power. I am positively surprised how powerful it is.
It was a little bit weird because these Bosch engine motor has a "turbo mode" and I guess that puts it in 600W mode, it basically "jumped" as soon as I started pedaling. So the bike senses how hard you are pedaling and it gives you a 300% boost. Running in other modes, it supported me very well. Economy mode WAS NOT GOOD uphill ! I mean it was good if you want to use your own power, which I intent do, but having a trailer on that bike and some batteries etc.... Idk. I will be testing it. He will come with his bike and we will put on my trailer on it and water canisters equal to the weight of the batteries and then we will do some touring.

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In Turbo mode it has 75 Nm of torque. To me it felt, really nice and we will test it under load with a trailer when he brings it to my home. I mean most people already know what their bikes can tow and it's nothing interesting for them but for me it is....

He told me he went up hill 1200 meters altitude on a 12 km in turbo mode with speed limit off (he illegally turned it off) road and he wasted 66% of his battery. His battery is a little bit heavier than 2 kilograms.

 

[john peck]

It seems to me that your wanting so much power means you want to tour with little effort on your parthe onlytime

It seems to me that your wanting so much power means you want to tour with little effort on your part.

Easy for you to say. Generally, if I´m not pedaling it´s cuz I´ coasting. I put forth just as much
effort as I would on an acoustic bike, but even electric still wouldn´t haul this busted up old carcass as
far as I´d like to go. So you may smooch my back side.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Noob: Good that you have tested the Cube! For your information, the Bosch CX motor can pump up to 850 W @85 Nm after the motor has got the software update. The maximum assistance is 360%. I agree steep hills are to be ridden in low gear and often in Turbo mode (Eco is for the flat). I also agree battery consumption could be fairly high. Here are data for a Specialized Turbo Vado 6.0 ride in mountains (Vado 6.0 is a legal 45 km/h S-Pedelec). The e-bike comes with a 600 W battery, and it produces 520 W max peak power at 90 Nm. I used an extra battery on that ride:

As you can see, the extra battery was necessary to be carried. The average assistance was 180% in Bosch CX terms. It was because I was using high assistance modes (including Turbo) uphill but no assistance downhill!

If you have a good budget, you might look to Riese & Muller e-bikes (these are luxury e-bikes). Some of them such as Homage (but not only) can be made with a dual battery, and that makes the range in the hills excellent. There are CX (25 km/h) and HS (high-speed) versions of R&M e-bikes.

 

[NoobForBikes]

but even electric still wouldn´t haul this busted up old carcass as
far as I´d like to go.

yeah I really feel like my body is a burden to my spirit. I'd like to go very far...


One has to avoid financial and physical obstacles in that effort and cycle the world

 

[mschwett]

a 750w bike can certainly pull a trailer uphill - it all depends on the weight.

but visit bikecalculator.net and review the math - let‘s say the motor is putting out 500w and you’re putting out 150w. 650w. on flat ground that will only go 25mph or so (assuming significant drag from the trailer), which means if you brought along 6 500wh batteries, you’d have 6 hours of battery usage, and go around 150 miles. Then you have to stop and charge your batteries, and if you had another 6 hours of sunlight you’d need 500 watts of power, so figure however many solar cells that is. forget about charging while riding, the aerodynamic ynamic impact of that is going to outweigh the energy generated. bikes are all about drag at higher speeds, if you want to go further, you have to go slower.

add in some hills and the situation becomes much much worse. You have the rider - 150lb. the bike - 75lb. the 5 extra batteries - 40lb. The solar panels - 40lb? The trailer and the rest of your stuff - 50lb? call it 350lb. that same 650w of power might get you 10mph…

the most practical strategy for a long electric trip like this is to minimize weight other than batteries and panels (since they pay for themselves, so to speak) and minimize drag (unlike going uphill, energy lost to drag is gone forever) by keeping speeds fairly low, limiting yourself to around 100 miles a day, which leaves time for charging.

 

[dodgeman]

One reason I said take a regular acoustic bike and go 80 miles and see how you feel is because I think that is the effort you will need every day. Over the last few days I’ve ridden my bike and paid attention to the range. Using the Tour setting mostly, 40 to 50 miles seems possible. That’s about 50% electric 50% me for power. If I had two batteries 80 to 100 miles would be possible.

Another factor, will your backside and body take sitting on a bike for that many hours? Mine wouldn’t.

 

[Mike TowpathTraveler]

Noob, I'd advise you to seek out and read all of the postings from @K PierreR, who has thought out and tackled the logistics of long distance riding & charging. I will start you off with this thread here: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/daunting-e-bike-touring-problems-and-logistics.41718/ and we have this one here: https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/totally-absurd-possibilities-for-touring.41584/

@dodgeman nails it as well. Pedaling a bike, a heavy, gear and battery & generator laden ebike, is still pedaling. And from Day 2 out on the road onward, it will be a grind, a battle. There are many journals out there about touring by bicycle in the US, many are found over on the CrazyGuyOnABike website.

Charging stations will always be the problem with ebike touring in the US. For one thing, dedicated charging infrastructure is just not there. You are on your own to figure that out. And the other big issue is the total immensity of our country, especially when you get into the american Midwest and points beyond into the far west. Even something as basic as carrying enough water to stay hydrated within the desert lands will be an issue for any bicyclist. And, potentially dangerous. It's a big country.

 

[JRA]

I'm getting a real charge out of this thread

And @john peck I think you might have slipped a gear above as there is no one disparaging your long haul effort? In fact I beat you to that tag along concept years ago mounting a Robin with a Stanton gear box on it.....In fact a pic of it used to be on the Stanton site.

I imagine you are a part of the old Long Beach moto cycle crew? I rode over there from Astoria one day with my moto Bob and met up with Augie, recharged and rode back. When he came over to Astoria he couldn't ride up to my house without zig zagging all over with his belt drive.....word of caution be careful applying power to the tag a long when turning as it will push you where you don't want to be....

 

[kmccune]

yeah I really feel like my body is a burden to my spirit. I'd like to go very far...


One has to avoid financial and physical obstacles in that effort and cycle the world

The spirit is willing but the "Flesh " is weak, there is one Bike Guru who goes all over the world in a heavily laden "Acoustic" bike, His take is to use a Belt drive and internally geared rear hub, otherwise just get something with a petrol engine on it.
"Ideals are great, reality is a bitch".

 

[john peck]

yeah I really feel like my body is a burden to my spirit. I'd like to go very far...


One has to avoid financial and physical obstacles in that effort and cycle the world

When age or injury imposes physical obstacles the choice is adapt or surrender. I´ve no plans to surrender.
Why build A hybrid gas/electric bike? Why climb Everest? Just for a fresh challenge. The frustrating
mechanical hassles thus far have made me all the more determined.

 

[ChezCheese:)]

Me, I'm basically just trying not to rust. But it's the fun of it that keeps me going.

 

[dodgeman]

Google RAGBRAI. It’s a yearly event, usually a big turn out, where a group rides across Iowa, a little less than 500 miles. The place we bought our bike from is in Iowa and apparently e bikes do ride. He said they had generators but still had problems keeping bikes charged.