Thinking about switching from a Canbus to a New Uart Motor

[Ridetoglide]

Hey guys… Has anybody had a bike that originally came with a Canbus protocol Ultra motor and switched into and installed a Uart protocol Ultra motor? Are there any snags or gotchyas with installing the Uart motor where the Canbus was originally mounted? ( ie.. different mounts?) Is there any advantage in keeping the Canbus motor besides the cost to switch?

So after a year and 600 miles of riding my Biktrix Ultra Beast (with the Canbus motor) I am still only barely ok with the stock Bafang programming that cannot be changed. The power delivery is rough in assist 2 and higher, the torque sensor requires in my opinion too much pressure, although the motor is very powerful when riding uphill I have to contribute too much effort even in high assist levels and I cannot set the throttle to “by displays command” which I like to do.

All I keep reading is how much better the motor performs after reprogramming, the Frey Smooth Tune in particular.

I would sell the bike but I use it for beach riding and the large frame is ideal for really wide rims and tires. After a year of use I thought I may get used to the factory Bafang programming but plainly speaking it just sucks. I know there is better so i do not want to just live with it. The warranty is expired so its time to look into switching to a Uart. Thanks in advance!!

 

[AHicks]

I believe @Nvreloader has made the modification you're talking about. You may want to get in touch with him.

The new motor bolts up without issue to my understanding. You will need the 1:4 cable (from motor to up in the area of the handlebars) and the UART display for sure, but there may be some other things as well.

 

[Ridetoglide]

I believe @Nvreloader has made the modification you're talking about. You may want to get in touch with him.

The new motor bolts up without issue to my understanding. You will need the 1:4 cable (from motor to up in the area of the handlebars) and the UART display for sure, but there may be some other things as well.

There is... the speed sensor is different as well. Its been a year i patiently waited for the possibility of Canbus programming. The warranty has expired and i would need to remove the canbus motor anyway to be greased so i might as well just replace it with a Uart.

 

[AHicks]

There is... the speed sensor is different as well. Its been a year i patiently waited for the possibility of Canbus programming. The warranty has expired and i would need to remove the canbus motor anyway to be greased so i might as well just replace it with a Uart.

Please keep us advised on your project. My bet is there will be a few watching closely!

BTW, as the owner of a UART based M620/Ultra with the Smooth settings, I can totally sympathize with somebody wanting to go to the time and expense to do what you want to do.

 

[greeno]

Cant you just replace the Canbus controller with a UART model? They got em a greenbikekit.com for like $150. Then just get the USB cable from Amazon for $20 and download the "Frey" for example programing file and tune away. Shouldn't have to purchase a new motor. Maybe I'm wrong but the motor shouldn't care on what's controlling it.
The stock Bafang programming isn't very smooth from what I've seen. Real easy to do yourself.

 

[AHicks]

Cant you just replace the Canbus controller with a UART model? They got em a greenbikekit.com for like $150. Then just get the USB cable from Amazon for $20 and download the "Frey" for example programing file and tune away. Shouldn't have to purchase a new motor. Maybe I'm wrong but the motor shouldn't care on what's controlling it.
The stock Bafang programming isn't very smooth from what I've seen. Real easy to do yourself.

In a perfect world that would work fine. Unfortunately my understanding is there's a difference in the UART controller bolt pattern and the CANbus, just like they KNEW there would be people trying this....

 

[Ridetoglide]

Please keep us advised on your project. My bet is there will be a few watching closely!

BTW, as the owner of a UART based M620/Ultra with the Smooth settings, I can totally sympathize with somebody wanting to go to the time and expense to do what you want to do.

Excellent!! Its good to hear that. I will be spending about a Grand with shipping. Part of me is unsure if it is worth the money to switch. I will definitely keep you posted. Not to jinx myself but it should be straight forward.

 

[AHicks]

Excellent!! Its good to hear that. I will be spending about a Grand with shipping. Part of me is unsure if it is worth the money to switch. I will definitely keep you posted. Not to jinx myself but it should be straight forward.

My thought as well, but I haven't done one. That's really the only way to know for sure! -Al

 

[greeno]

Bare bones UART motor is only $710 at GBK.
Quick question. Will the Archon controller mount inside of a Canbus motor? I know they mount inside a UART motor.
Anybody have a clear picture of a Canbus and UART controller side by side?
Ford/Chevy figures.

 

[Ridetoglide]

Bare bones UART motor is only $710 at GBK.
Quick question. Will the Archon controller mount inside of a Canbus motor? I know they mount inside a UART motor.
Anybody have a clear picture of a Canbus and UART controller side by side?
Ford/Chevy figures.

Yes but also need the wire harness, display and speed sensor. From what i've heard Uart controlletrs are not compatible with Uart motors. If the Archon is Uart which i believe it is it will not fit.

 

[greeno]

UART controllers are NOT compatible with UART motors?? Misprint?
So Wattwagon is only retrofitting motors with UART config and not using the newer version CANBUS motors?
If the "new" bafang M620 motors are CANBUS but you can still get the UART version why would anybody order the new style if the pre-programming sucks and you can't alter the settings?
I understand that the plug connectors are a different configuration, round verses triangle, but it's the same wires correct?
Couldn't you just install your own M/F plugs and be good to go?

One last thing if the controllers are different mounting design are the motors different as well? I would think the motor housing would all be the same.

If anybody has a CANBUS motor and controller could they take a picture of them opened up to compare to the UART version.
I would be willing to open mine up, probably could use some grease anyway, and snap a couple of pics for comparison.

All this info might already be somewhere out on the inter web but I haven't seen it.

 

[greeno]

Recieved a response from GBK about swapping the controllers.


Dear Mike,

No. You cannot just change the controller to change the protocol. The display is different, the EB-BUS is also different for the two protocols. The torque sensors are different too.

 

[tomjasz]

I posted the mod months ago, but I’ll be damned if I can find it.

 

[Ridetoglide]

UART controllers are NOT compatible with UART motors?? Misprint?
So Wattwagon is only retrofitting motors with UART config and not using the newer version CANBUS motors?
If the "new" bafang M620 motors are CANBUS but you can still get the UART version why would anybody order the new style if the pre-programming sucks and you can't alter the settings?
I understand that the plug connectors are a different configuration, round verses triangle, but it's the same wires correct?
Couldn't you just install your own M/F plugs and be good to go?

One last thing if the controllers are different mounting design are the motors different as well? I would think the motor housing would all be the same.

If anybody has a CANBUS motor and controller could they take a picture of them opened up to compare to the UART version.
I would be willing to open mine up, probably could use some grease anyway, and snap a couple of pics for comparison.

All this info might already be somewhere out on the inter web but I haven't seen it.

I am surprised Bafang is still making Uart motors because based on what i read last year they were supposed to switch over to the Canbus version in 2021. I am guessing the motor mounts have to be the same otherwise it would be an entirely different motor that would not fit on any Current bike frames designed with the Ultra mounting bracket.

 

[tomjasz]

I am surprised Bafang is still making Uart motors because based on what i read last year they were supposed to switch over to the Canbus version in 2021

There's still a huge DIY kit market that they will kill with Canbus.
And they never announced that their entire line would be changed over.

 

[Ridetoglide]

There's still a huge DIY kit market that they will kill with Canbus.
And they never announced that their entire line would be changed over.

Good to know... hopefully it stays that way. I just wish my Biktrix Ultra Beast would have came with a Uart from the begining. But its not just the Beast its Bikonit's as well.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Good to know... hopefully it stays that way. I just wish my Biktrix Ultra Beast would have came with a Uart from the begining. But its not just the Beast its Bikonit's as well.

I guess the Biktrix extra special double secret proprietary firmware that they bullshit'd everyone with in the past no longer applies

 

[Ridetoglide]

I guess the Biktrix extra special double secret proprietary firmware that they bullshit'd everyone with in the past no longer applies

Its not Biktrix fault, the frame manufacturer switched over to Canbus, it affected the Bikonit brand as well.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Its not Biktrix fault, the frame manufacturer switched over to Canbus, it affected the Bikonit brand as well.

I know this... But on the UART they ran some bs that they had a special relationship with Bafang and had firmware as I mentioned

 

[tomjasz]

Good to know... hopefully it stays that way.

My comments are limited to the BBSxx and hub series. Bafang lost me when they introduced the frame integrated motors. Not my cuppa. I'm firmly in the home shop repair and maintenance world.