tomjasz
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- Minnesnowta
Or would have us believe that...
Bafang has some really fucked up firmware out there...
Thinking about switching from a Canbus to a New Uart Motor
- Thread starter Ridetoglide
- Start date
Bafang has some really fucked up firmware out there...
Gionnirocket
Well-Known Member
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- Y. O.
Honestly I'd love a manufacturered bike just for the frame intergrated battery... But I'd despise being strapped to an LBS for repair.
AHicks
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- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
I can surely identify with that comment. Been doing that for a while now.
Tom@WashDC
Well-Known Member
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- Loudoun County, VA.
So the motor, is the same motor, powered by three phase wires. The phase wire connections should be the same. Fundamentally the controller is variable power switch applying differing levels of power to the motor. The controllers are different, the displays are different, the wire connections to the torque sensor and the speed sensor are different.
If you can install the UART Controller and secure it, that will work. You will need a new UART compatible wring harness from the controller to the display, and you will need a UART display. You will need to modify the connections for the torque sensor and the speed sensor by cutting and soldering new connectors. I do not believe the torque sensor and speed sensor are different other than the connectors.
Ridetoglide
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- USA
If it came down to that and there were no other options i would look into modding a canbus motor to work with uart controller to work. At this point in time I am going to buy and replace the entire motor, display, wire harness and speed sensor. I will sell the used canbus motor on ebay to help make up for the cost of the swap. Or just keep the canbus motor incase i ever sell the Beast i will swap it back in and keep the Uart motor
Ridetoglide
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- USA
Actually ive been thinking.... I wonder how much is actually different between the uart and canbus motor besides the controller and torque sensor? If I were to take a canbus motor, swap in a Uart torque sensor ( assuming it would fit ), would the former canbus motor now be compatible with a Uart controller? The other 2 questions remaining are will the canbus motor / uart controller physically fit/bolt together and are the temperature sensor and phase wire connections the same? If i do end up swapping motors maybe i will experiment with the canbus motor and buy a uart controller and torque sensor to see if it can be done.
bafang ultra torque sensor / Bafang M620 torque sensor with axle for replacement - Greenbikekit.com BBS, ebike batteries, Bafang M620, Bafang M600, Bafang M500, Bafang M510, KT controller with display-GreenBikeKit.com
bafang ultra torque sensor / Bafang Ultra M620 torque sensor with axle for replacement.
www.greenbikekit.com
Bafang Ultra motor controller /Bafang ultra M620 motor controller 48V for replacement-greenbikekit.com BBS, ebike batteries, Bafang M620, Bafang M600, Bafang M500, Bafang M510, KT controller with display-GreenBikeKit.com
Bafang Ultra motor controller /Bafang ultra M620 motor controller 52V for replacement, to make your ebike to be more powerful.
www.greenbikekit.com
Last edited:
AHicks
Well-Known Member
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- USA
- City
- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Looking forward to your findings! I think a quite a few may be curious about some of your questions.Actually ive been thinking.... I wonder how much is actually different between the uart and canbus motor besides the controller and torque sensor? If I were to take a canbus motor, swap in a Uart torque sensor ( assuming it would fit ), would the former canbus motor now be compatible with a Uart controller? The other 2 questions remaining are will the canbus motor / uart controller physically fit/bolt together and are the temperature sensor and phase wire connections the same? If i do end up swapping motors maybe i will experiment with the canbus motor and buy a uart controller and torque sensor to see if it can be done.
bafang ultra torque sensor / Bafang M620 torque sensor with axle for replacement - Greenbikekit.com BBS, ebike batteries, Bafang M620, Bafang M600, Bafang M500, Bafang M510, KT controller with display-GreenBikeKit.com
bafang ultra torque sensor / Bafang Ultra M620 torque sensor with axle for replacement.
Bafang Ultra motor controller /Bafang ultra M620 motor controller 48V for replacement-greenbikekit.com BBS, ebike batteries, Bafang M620, Bafang M600, Bafang M500, Bafang M510, KT controller with display-GreenBikeKit.com
Bafang Ultra motor controller /Bafang ultra M620 motor controller 52V for replacement, to make your ebike to be more powerful.
Noteworthy maybe, is the folks swapping in performance controllers to the UART based motors, they specify they will mod only UART based motors. Until one sees how a UART controller actually lines up on a CANbus case, further speculation seems like it might be a waste. Maybe that's just me though...
Ridetoglide
Active Member
- Region
- USA
I will have the cabus motor already... Worse comes to worse if the uart controller i purchased does not fit i will have a spare controller on hand incase i ever need it.
Ridetoglide
Active Member
- Region
- USA
I just ordered the Uart motor, display, EB Bus cable and speed sensor. I ended up ordering them from Biktrix which is good because of the support if any issues develop... I was originally going to order from Green Bike Kit. There is always some sort of snag with a project like this but hopefully everything goes relatively smoothly. The process seems straight forward.
I have been studying the settings and have an idea of what i want to experiment with. I plan on starting out with the Frey Smooth settings. The only three variables i plan on experimenting with are the Limit Current settings on the basics page, delta and base voltage and Full (kg).
I like the idea of what Frey has done by making all 6 Start(kg) settings to 1, it make sense that power should come one as soon as torque is sensed. ( but with the base voltage set to 740mv, power will not come on till the torque sensor output reaches that value). Delta voltage is really something that i can see as user specific because each rider's leg strength is different.
The sweet spot for cruise cadence for me is between 65 to 75 rpm, I will make any changes to Full(kg) if i feel there is too much or too little power in that range. I will also make any changes for the 85 to 95 rpm range as well. The ultra should spin at 150 rpm for a 48 volt system so Spd60 should equate to approximately 90 rpm.
I like how Frey has return kg and keep current set. I really don't like when assist cuts out while i am peddling and find it very irritating.
Tom@WashDC
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- USA
- City
- Loudoun County, VA.
Looking forward to your updates.
Ridetoglide
Active Member
- Region
- USA
Agreed... there is a good chance i may not want to change anything. I would like to see what happens if I lowered base voltage by a few hundred while keeping the Frey delta voltage settings as published.
Ridetoglide
Active Member
- Region
- USA
This is turning out to be a nightmare. I ended up ordering the Uart motor from biktrix, figured they would be able to provide support if i had an issue. It took them a week to ship it out after the order was placed and then another week for it to arrive. I just received the motor today and it is a 52 volt motor and my Juggernaut Beast has 48 volt batteries. Perhaps i should have just ordered the motor from Green Bike Kit.
Will a 52 volt Ultra motor work with 48 volt batteries?
Will a 52 volt Ultra motor work with 48 volt batteries?
JRA
Well-Known Member
Mine works with both. There is the option to chose either via the programming cable/computer and also in the display but as far as I can tell it makes no difference. Seems like the voltage reads the battery as it should, albeit on mine .5v low on the display as compared to my Satiator when I plug it in to charge.
AHicks
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
I would think so as well. Your display will need to be set to the correct voltage so it shows correctly, and the low voltage cut off setting needs to be correct. As far as I know, the rest is all the same.
tomjasz
Well-Known Member
- Region
- USA
- City
- Minnesnowta
Hopefully Bafang never pulled the same BS they did with a release of the BBSHD firmware version that gave a voltage error with a 52V. And would only work with 48V. I released that firmware anonymously through another poster (Amberwolf on endless_sphere) while still selling Bafang BBSxx series motors.
JRA
Well-Known Member
On my bike the LVC is controlled by the BMS and not the programming it seems. My stock 48v battery with stock programming would cutout @ around 45v which was a PITA. When I got the cable and was able to access the ability to switch the LVC I lowered it to 39v but the battery would still cut out @ the same voltage.
Upon getting different batteries, one 48v and one 52v, the 48v cuts out at 42v via the display and the 52v trips the LVC @ 44V although I never changed the 39v LVC setting.
Ridetoglide
Active Member
- Region
- USA
An Update.....
So the motor swap was successful. The Uart and Canbus motors seem to be identical in outer dimensions and shape so the Uart motor swapped right in. The process was a bit of a nightmare for several reasons.
1. Biktrix - it took biktrix a week to ship the motor and then another week for it to arrive. When it did arrive it did not look like a new motor. I was told it was a new motor taken off of a bike ( biktrix would not disclose the reason ). The motor i received looked used. There was dirt in the crevices, a big scratch on the bottom of the motor and the black power wire has a splice on it. I paid $800 for the bare motor not including shipping, Green Bike kit sells the entire kit for $809 new but i went with biktrix because of the support they offer and they did say it comes with a one year warranty.
2. Wiring. The wiring on the Biktrix Juggernaut Beast is tight. There is not much room to connect and disconnect the electrical fittings. The biggest problem is the wiring harness. I cannot pull it out the Canbus harness without cutting off the 8 pin JST fitting. The space in the frame is tight, the battery cables are thick and take up a lot of room. For now i ran the Uart cable outside and taped it to the frame ( it looks horrible i know) I will finish the wiring this winter once the season is over. The canbus harness remains in the frame.
I have an idea. I think i can use the canbus cable and not have to remove it. I can cut off the JST 8 pin female fitting and put a male fitting on. (the uart and canbus cables have reverse gender fittings) Green Bike kit sells the fittings. And cut off the triangle display fitting and splice on the round uart fitting. There is a wiring diagram on Green bike kit.
The bike seems to run great!! The new ( not so new) motor seems to be very quiet ( extremely quiet ) compared to the canbus motor it replaced. The first thing i did was program the motor with my settings and it is a night and day difference. I may refine it over time but for now i an going to get used to the settings first.
So the motor swap was successful. The Uart and Canbus motors seem to be identical in outer dimensions and shape so the Uart motor swapped right in. The process was a bit of a nightmare for several reasons.
1. Biktrix - it took biktrix a week to ship the motor and then another week for it to arrive. When it did arrive it did not look like a new motor. I was told it was a new motor taken off of a bike ( biktrix would not disclose the reason ). The motor i received looked used. There was dirt in the crevices, a big scratch on the bottom of the motor and the black power wire has a splice on it. I paid $800 for the bare motor not including shipping, Green Bike kit sells the entire kit for $809 new but i went with biktrix because of the support they offer and they did say it comes with a one year warranty.
2. Wiring. The wiring on the Biktrix Juggernaut Beast is tight. There is not much room to connect and disconnect the electrical fittings. The biggest problem is the wiring harness. I cannot pull it out the Canbus harness without cutting off the 8 pin JST fitting. The space in the frame is tight, the battery cables are thick and take up a lot of room. For now i ran the Uart cable outside and taped it to the frame ( it looks horrible i know) I will finish the wiring this winter once the season is over. The canbus harness remains in the frame.
I have an idea. I think i can use the canbus cable and not have to remove it. I can cut off the JST 8 pin female fitting and put a male fitting on. (the uart and canbus cables have reverse gender fittings) Green Bike kit sells the fittings. And cut off the triangle display fitting and splice on the round uart fitting. There is a wiring diagram on Green bike kit.
The bike seems to run great!! The new ( not so new) motor seems to be very quiet ( extremely quiet ) compared to the canbus motor it replaced. The first thing i did was program the motor with my settings and it is a night and day difference. I may refine it over time but for now i an going to get used to the settings first.
Attachments
Ridetoglide
Active Member
- Region
- USA
Nvreloader
Well-Known Member
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- USA
Ridetoglide,
Thank you for the info,
I am doing the same thing, changing over to the Uart motor, just for the programming aspect.
I stated to pull my motor for the second time and found out that the battery power cables had a thin wire soldered to the connection battery plug and I could not find out where this thin elect cable went to or attached etc. (Pulled the top battery connection, 4 pin plug to see the wiring.)
So I ordered a snake camera camera to go onto my Samsung camera, not here yet, then I can see down inside that main down tube, (I have a Wart Hog MD 750) same bike as yours, the camera has not arrived yet.
I ordered a 4 connection plug, main wiring harness and was sent a 5 connection plug, (I believe that the 5th plug is for lights etc. I don't know if this makes a difference).
I could pull/move the main harness cable, I did hit a tight spot, tied nylon twine to fish back into the proper place, and did not want to force it, reason for the snake camera attachment etc.
I also bought the same Uart parts as you did, do you really need to change out the speed sensor?
All the other parts I can see changing. And you are correct, there is NOT a lot of room between the frame and motor casing for all the wiring that passes thru there etc.
I am going to check the motor and add a good quality Corn Head grease to the gear train before I install the Uart motor back etc.
When everything is working OK, I plan on following Jon A setting has he and I do the same type of back country riding, off road and cow trails etc.
electricbikereview.com
Thank you,
Don
Thank you for the info,
I am doing the same thing, changing over to the Uart motor, just for the programming aspect.
I stated to pull my motor for the second time and found out that the battery power cables had a thin wire soldered to the connection battery plug and I could not find out where this thin elect cable went to or attached etc. (Pulled the top battery connection, 4 pin plug to see the wiring.)
So I ordered a snake camera camera to go onto my Samsung camera, not here yet, then I can see down inside that main down tube, (I have a Wart Hog MD 750) same bike as yours, the camera has not arrived yet.
I ordered a 4 connection plug, main wiring harness and was sent a 5 connection plug, (I believe that the 5th plug is for lights etc. I don't know if this makes a difference).
I could pull/move the main harness cable, I did hit a tight spot, tied nylon twine to fish back into the proper place, and did not want to force it, reason for the snake camera attachment etc.
I also bought the same Uart parts as you did, do you really need to change out the speed sensor?
All the other parts I can see changing. And you are correct, there is NOT a lot of room between the frame and motor casing for all the wiring that passes thru there etc.
I am going to check the motor and add a good quality Corn Head grease to the gear train before I install the Uart motor back etc.
When everything is working OK, I plan on following Jon A setting has he and I do the same type of back country riding, off road and cow trails etc.
Luna Z1 - First impressions
Alright, I purchased a Bafang cable and connected to the controller. Here were my settings. Of note, my low battery cutoff is set to 41V. I'm not certain if I'm in the "bike dies at 46v camp" because I don't think I've taken any rides long enough yet, but now I absolutely need to do a range...
electricbikereview.com
Don
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