The weakest link for me: the chargers

FrankR

FrankR

Active Member
Region
USA
City
Milky Way Galaxy
You can see my bike type in my avatar and sig.

I love it. But the weakest link for me is: these chargers. I know I bought low end, but I would have gladly paid another 50 dollars to have a Smart charger.

Everything I read tells me I should aspire to keep my battery between about 80% down to 20%. To keep it at 80%, with these chargers, that translates to setting timers, pulling the charger, and turning on the bike to check the volts. It would be great to have smart chargers that would show me the volts on a display on the charger - while I'm charging - that then shut off when the battery reaches the desired dialed amount.
 
FrankR said:
You can see my bike type in my avatar and sig.

I love it. But the weakest link for me is: these chargers. I know I bought low end, but I would have gladly paid another 50 dollars to have a Smart charger.

Everything I read tells me I should aspire to keep my battery between about 80% down to 20%. To keep it at 80%, with these chargers, that translates to setting timers, pulling the charger, and turning on the bike to check the volts. It would be great to have smart chargers that would show me the volts on a display on the charger - while I'm charging - that then shut off when the battery reaches the desired dialed amount.
Click to expand...
Just plug it in. Too many people worry about battery percentages. Foooey. Charge it up and ride it till it dies. Then charge it up again.
 
Everything I read tells me otherwise.

And if these chargers don't shut off, there Has to be danger with over charging.
 
Looks like a battery similar to what the original Lectric XP's used. Maybe $300 for a 3rd party model.

I'm with Tom and Taylor. There's too much worry here about 80%. I try to leave a battery half charged for the long winter hiatus, and I won't recharge if I'm going to be leaving the bike sit for a while. Otherwise, I recharge the bikes after every ride. I make sure the charger is unplugged before I go to bed or leave the house.

It takes a dual fault, one in the charger and one in the battery, to get into trouble. But why take chances. Most people have heard my story. Vendor sold me a 52V charger, calling it a 48V charger. That's one fault, but the battery protection saved my bacon.
 
The controls for a charger, basically a voltage sensor, are dirt cheap, and have been for years. Your weak link is not the charger control. It's everything else about your bike's electrical system, from the battery management system to the quality of various connections.

My advice: Go enjoy your rides! Just have a back up plan for when things go wrong. Perhaps they never will!
 
FrankR said:
You can see my bike type in my avatar and sig.

I love it. But the weakest link for me is: these chargers. I know I bought low end, but I would have gladly paid another 50 dollars to have a Smart charger.

Everything I read tells me I should aspire to keep my battery between about 80% down to 20%. To keep it at 80%, with these chargers, that translates to setting timers, pulling the charger, and turning on the bike to check the volts. It would be great to have smart chargers that would show me the volts on a display on the charger - while I'm charging - that then shut off when the battery reaches the desired dialed amount.
Click to expand...
That 80/20 thing is nice to know, but I think that for every person staying with that, there are a hundred more that aren't. IMHO, is you DO want to be careful about running the battery down to the point the BMS or controller shuts off the power (usually something under 42v or so) . THAT'S hard on the batteries. My bikes have plenty of battery capacity where I NEVER need to deplete to that point. I generally get several rides in on every charge. 30-40 miles depending on the bike/battery/conditions will usually take me down to 46v or so, maybe 45v. That's when they're charged, and because they are ridden daily there is no need to worry about a 100% charge.

The concern with a 100% charge is regarding storing the battery while charged to 100%. A day or 2 is fine. 6 months is not.

Agreed, don't believe everything you read.
 
I agree with the others who say it's a non issue. If you're really worried about it, buy a cheap twist timer. With a little experimentation, you'll learn how long to set it to get the state of charge you want.

Before I bought my quality Grin Satiator charger, I wired this timer to a garage outlet I use for charging:


There are cheaper plug in models available though.
 
FrankR said:
You can see my bike type in my avatar and sig.

I love it. But the weakest link for me is: these chargers. I know I bought low end, but I would have gladly paid another 50 dollars to have a Smart charger.

Everything I read tells me I should aspire to keep my battery between about 80% down to 20%. To keep it at 80%, with these chargers, that translates to setting timers, pulling the charger, and turning on the bike to check the volts. It would be great to have smart chargers that would show me the volts on a display on the charger - while I'm charging - that then shut off when the battery reaches the desired dialed amount.
Click to expand...
If you are somewhat handy electrically... You can put something like this together inexpensively.
That said... If charging to 80% doesn't give you enough capacity to do what you want... What's the point.
 
A Hicks said:
That 80/20 thing is nice to know, but I think that for every person staying with that, there are a hundred more that aren't.
Click to expand...
Exactly!

Why charge to only 80% because, if you charge to 100%, the battery might degrade over time to hold less than its original full capacity?

This 'rule' also requires one to stop riding at 20%. That's 40% of the battery not used in order to prevent it from degrading by considerably less than that amount.

Maybe, the 20–80% 'rule' is correct, but with a few exceptions – I'm thinking of daily commuters or those who ride predicable distances – it's too much of a chore to follow.

Go ride… and love your new ebike freedom!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
A truly smart charger should control the battery cells individually, charging time and total voltage is not a guarantee of a good balanced charge. The way the battery cells are soldered to the battery monitor system dictates the charge process. My advice would be to trust your BMS and charger and charge your bike to your needs. I always full charge just before my rides.
 
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David Berry said:
Exactly!

Why charge to only 80% because, if you charge to 100%, the battery might degrade over time to hold only 95% of its full capacity?

This 'rule' also requires one to stop riding at 20%. That's 40% of the battery not used in order to prevent it from degrading by a few percent!
Click to expand...
Everyone's situation is different.
As I've mentioned elsewhere... I can easily stay between 80-40% to get my typical 20-30mi ride in so charging to 100% gives me no benefits other than having to charge less frequently. Since I typically have ample time in the morning before rides.. Topping it back to 80% is done quickly.
 
David Berry said:
Exactly!

Why charge to only 80% because, if you charge to 100%, the battery might degrade over time to hold less than its original full capacity?

This 'rule' also requires one to stop riding at 20%. That's 40% of the battery not used in order to prevent it from degrading by considerably less than that amount.

Maybe, the 20–80% 'rule' is correct, but with a few exceptions – I'm thinking of daily commuters or those who ride predicable distances – it's too much of a chore to follow.

Go ride… and love your new ebike freedom!
Click to expand...
Nice back track with the edit.
And I do enjoy my ebike fully,I just have other things I want to do then ride 24/7
So you see it's no chore at all.. especially with the little device I put together 😉
 
I bought one of the Luna Chargers for my second unit. It allows for 80%, 90%, or 100% charging, and various amperage rates from 1-5. Almost 2 years in service as my primary now and it's been fantastic, and at $100, won't break the bank for those features.

Luna Charger

I'll still probably grab a GRIN Satiator eventually, just because I'm a bit of an amateur tech hoarder, but not before one of the stock units or the Luna unit fail.

But even the $25 stock units have an automatic shutoff, and generally run fine at 3 amps or so (I still use my stock charger at work where I always have 8-10 hours to top up before my ride home). If yours truly doesn't cycle off at full charge, and/or have a reduced absorption rate at the end of the charge, I would definitely park it and get a new one. If it is a typical basic automatic charger, just run with it and live your life. :)
 
David Berry said:
Exactly!

Why charge to only 80% because, if you charge to 100%, the battery might degrade over time to hold less than its original full capacity?

This 'rule' also requires one to stop riding at 20%. That's 40% of the battery not used in order to prevent it from degrading by considerably less than that amount.

Maybe, the 20–80% 'rule' is correct, but with a few exceptions – I'm thinking of daily commuters or those who ride predicable distances – it's too much of a chore to follow.

Go ride… and love your new ebike freedom!
Click to expand...
Worse, I find this "rule" to be more of an urban legend, at least as applied to bikes, than something backed up by evidence. As near as I can tell, it stems from practices uses by EV auto makers, but their duty cycle is far different from our ebikes.

We also don't know what our BMS are doing (which I'm sure vary a lot from ebike battery mfgr to mfgr) so for all I know, we could in real life be charging to 80% of 80%.

We can, OTOH, rely on the advice from our bike manufacturers, if they give us advice. Mine advises discharging to 60% or so before long term storage, but nothing else.
 
retiredNH said:
Worse, I find this "rule" to be more of an urban legend, at least as applied to bikes, than something backed up by evidence. As near as I can tell, it stems from practices uses by EV auto makers, but their duty cycle is far different from our ebikes.

We also don't know what our BMS are doing (which I'm sure vary a lot from ebike battery mfgr to mfgr) so for all I know, we could in real life be charging to 80% of 80%.

We can, OTOH, rely on the advice from our bike manufacturers, if they give us advice. Mine advises discharging to 60% or so before long term storage, but nothing else.
Click to expand...
I think the fact that Apple now has baked in battery management that avoids 100% charging your phone whenever possible, and shuts off automatically at 20%, strongly suggests the 80/20 rule has merit on small batteries too.

But I agree that it's just a degree of OCD that suits some, and not others. Some folks go out of their way to squeeze every MPG out of their gas tank. Some just drive...
 
retiredNH said:
Worse, I find this "rule" to be more of an urban legend, at least as applied to bikes, than something backed up by evidence. As near as I can tell, it stems from practices uses by EV auto makers, but their duty cycle is far different from our ebikes.

We also don't know what our BMS are doing (which I'm sure vary a lot from ebike battery mfgr to mfgr) so for all I know, we could in real life be charging to 80% of 80%.

We can, OTOH, rely on the advice from our bike manufacturers, if they give us advice. Mine advises discharging to 60% or so before long term storage, but nothing else.
Click to expand...
Urban legend 🤣
Perhaps you should read some technical documentation instead of relying on bullshit posted here.
And if you know what cells are in your battery... You can know percentage accurately
 
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