The problem of the "disposable" ebike

[Michele UWS]

I just bought a Trek Police bike with a Purion and wanted to upgrade to a Kiox but was told that wasn't possible because it's not available aftermarket which is a bummer. Wanted to know if people thought it was worth it to switch upgrade to the Intuvia (haven't yet checked if that's possible). I need to add lights to run off the battery so it seemed like upgrading from the Purion at the same time was more cost effective. Hoping Bosch will change their mind about the Kiox in the future.

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

 

[Chris Nolte]

I just bought a Trek Police bike with a Purion and wanted to upgrade to a Kiox but was told that wasn't possible because it's not available aftermarket which is a bummer. Wanted to know if people thought it was worth it to switch upgrade to the Intuvia (haven't yet checked if that's possible). I need to add lights to run off the battery so it seemed like upgrading from the Purion at the same time was more cost effective. Hoping Bosch will change their mind about the Kiox in the future.

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

It might make sense to wait just a bit longer and see if Bosch makes the Kiox available on the aftermarket. It’s my theory that they will. They just need to increase their production capabilities first.

I would consider the Intuvia swap if there is specific information you would find valuable. Maybe a larger screen, more information available, removable, 5v.5amp power output from the micro usb. If it was me I would wait to see when the Kiox is available aftermarket

 

[Michele UWS]

It might make sense to wait just a bit longer and see if Bosch makes the Kiox available on the aftermarket. It’s my theory that they will. They just need to increase their production capabilities first.

I would consider the Intuvia swap if there is specific information you would find valuable. Maybe a larger screen, more information available, removable, 5v.5amp power output from the micro usb. If it was me I would wait to see when the Kiox is available aftermarket

Thanks Chris, I appreciate your input. I'm just going to wait for now because that was my hope as well.

 

[fnkyhd]

ebikeMom thanks for the write up and thanks for being considerate! ...for all of us! the response: "At my age, it's not something we worry about, Everything we own might last longer than either of us." do you have kids? grandkids? is it entirely up to them to sort out our mess? we can all do better.
as for regulations it's a sad state of affairs. I work in medicine where we are REQUIRED by regulation to uselessly waste more stuff than you can imagine. and then I come home and worry about and diligently washing and trying to recycle every stupid piece of plastic that comes with my groceries. *sigh*

 

[DDBB]

As long as I can still buy plastic straws, I'm not going to worry about anything

 

[keithd]

Speaking of straws, we buy plastic straws wrapped in paper, but the paper straws are wrapped in plastic ??? The marketing no one loses both get to keep making products. I recycle or re-use everything possible. My purchase of the Evelo Aurora was some what based on the fact that I believe the parts are more industry standard and may be more easily replaced or repaired in the future. Maybe I wrong, hope not.

 

[Alaskan]

Don't buy Bosch appliances if you hate disposable. Their failures are like clockwork. Bosch dishwasher and washer, never will buy again. Super expensive, yes 'efficient ', but to get a repair man or the parts is simply obscene. I generally do all my own repairs and have done so on Bosch to keep them running longer than their obviously planned obscelence.

Best washer by far today is Speedqueen. You'll get the 25+ years.

Dishwasher , who knows. They are all pretty much junk these days. Kenmore used to be good, and Kitchenaid is now hit or miss. Used to be better.

Bosch power tools are hands down the worst.

Only Milwaukee, or Makita depending on the tool, and Dewalt. (Great tablesaws)

Not my experience at all. We have a Bosch dishwasher doing three loads a day in a commercial application and the thing is a total workhorse. My Bosch electric screwdriver is my most used tool and has been going strong without a hicup for 12 years (with the same two batteries I bought back then still going strong). I guess we all have different experiences (or agendas?)

 

[indianajo]

I looked at the custom battery mount & connector part of the industry and converted a pedal bike with generic battery & motor. I had too much of the patented connector racket in electronics. I used generic connectors, too, .157" bullet connectors that have been the same since 1958. The bike is much less of a landfill/carbon problem than a new car designed to plug up the catalytic converter with wire-harness/computer problems at 10 years of age. Not even Mercedes uses gold plate connectors on their computer & sensor connectors. The US Army does. Not buying any more disposacars, hear that Stuttgart/Detroit.

 

[fnkyhd]

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/06/190606102038.htm

 

[tomjasz]

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/06/190606102038.htm

Terrifying stuff!

 

[MadManMark]

I think you may not realize how fast battery/power systems are advancing. Might as well ask why we are not keeping smartphones more than a few years, or general purpose computers before them.

But I get & even share your general outlook. My primary commuter bike before I got my first ebike last fall was a 1993 Trek 970 manufactured in Ft Atkinson, Wisconsin (one of the last non-professional racing models they shifted manufacturing to China/Taiwan, I believe the very next year).

My washer and dryer are 32 years old and my dishwasher is 30 - they are well made from back in the day but new appliances might not be made as well

If that washer is a top loader you should really look into a front-loading HE replacement. I know you think you are being frugal, but you might be consuming more in water and detergent, and accelerated wear on your clothes than you might be saving on still using the old machine. Kind of like still driving a carbureted car from the 70s that gets 18mpg and spews lead into the air, false economy. Also, my front-loading LG is nearly 15 years old and doing just fine.

 

[tomjasz]

I think you may not realize how fast battery/power systems are advancing.

Yet we're seeing the same cells being used in packs. I bought PF packs 5 years ago and still find them selling well today. Nothing has changed much. although 21700 cells are trickling in.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

I think you may not realize how fast battery/power systems are advancing. Might as well ask why we are not keeping smartphones more than a few years, or general purpose computers before them.
...

Can you please be specific in what you mean by "advancing".

Cost per wh for batteries seems to be dropping a little over 20 percent per year, which would cut costs in half about every four years (source: https://about.bnef.com/blog/behind-scenes-take-lithium-ion-battery-prices/).

wh per kilogram (e.g. "energy density") is advancing much more slowly, along the lines of doubling every 20 years. Note that even that effect is a relatively recent phenomenon and that for much of the 20th century battery energy density was essentially flat (source: https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-th...trend-if-any-regarding-energy-to-weight-ratio)

Given that electronics are halving their costs every 3 years or so and doubling their density at about the same rate, I'd argue that battery progress is nowhere near as rapid as the advancements in microelectronics have been. In recent years solar panels seem to have gotten on the same rocket ship that electronics has been on, but even that was after literally decades of very slow progress.

 

[Alex M]

Solar panels prices dropped sharply when Chinese govt ordered them to. It was a planned action, and had little to do with technology progress. About 10 years ago billions of government subsidies were thrown in, zero interest financing. Panels were being made in every backyard and sold at every corner. All happened very quickly over one year period, prices dropped so low that nobody else could stay in business. US and European solar manufacturing was decimated and never recovered. China was left with an oversupply of panels for a while and sold it to 3rd world countries below the cost.

Who is keeping desktop computer a few years only? In most offices that I've been, workstations were at least 5 years old. Servers are a different matter.

Cellphones are getting thrown away after two years because they are not made to last, poor quality. Besides, consumers don't take proper care of Lithium battery, keeping it On all day whether they need it or not, and frying it on the charger all night. It takes 5-6 years for a smartphone to become notably obsolete to the point when it becomes incompatible with many new apps. Flip phone could last 7-8 years, subject to battery condition.

Having said all this, - batteries do seem to develop at much slower pace than electronics.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Solar panels prices dropped sharply when Chinese govt ordered them to. It was a planned action, and had little to do with technology progress. About 10 years ago billions of government subsidies were thrown in, zero interest financing. Panels were being made in every backyard and sold at every corner. All happened very quickly over one year period, prices dropped so low that nobody else could stay in business. US and European solar manufacturing was decimated and never recovered. China was left with an oversupply of panels for a while and sold it to 3rd world countries below the cost.

Who is keeping desktop computer a few years only? In most offices that I've been, workstations were at least 5 years old. Servers are a different matter.

Cellphones are getting thrown away after two years because they are not made to last, poor quality. Besides, consumers don't take proper care of Lithium battery, keeping it On all day whether they need it or not, and frying it on the charger all night. It takes 5-6 years for a smartphone to become notably obsolete to the point when it becomes incompatible with many new apps. Flip phone could last 7-8 years, subject to battery condition.

Having said all this, - batteries do seem to develop at much slower pace than electronics.

Sorry, but I think you are badly mistaken with respect for the reasons that solar has became dramatically cheaper (apparently a 97 percent drop since 1980). The price-dropping trend really started long before China was of any relevance to the international market for solar panels.

And no, you can't make solar panels in your backyard.

Yes, government subsidies and action were an important factor, but those government actions were in places as disparate as Germany, California, and Spain as well as China and Japan.

Sources:

https://www.freeingenergy.com/why-d...e-energy-continue-to-get-cheaper-and-cheaper/

https://www.sciencealert.com/here-are-the-wonderful-reasons-why-solar-is-cheaper-than-ever

Bonus source:

https://arstechnica.com/science/201...els-can-teach-us-to-make-new-tech-affordable/