Test ride on a Bikonit MD1000 (Mid-Drive) and HD 750 (Hub-Drive)
- Thread starter RMK!
- Start date
TomD
Well-Known Member
You do not have to pedal. That said the Ultra motor is a battery hog. On my Frey CC with 840wh battery I can go ~15 miles on flats using full throttle. Any significant hills it might be half that range. That's with street tires. Even with dual 750wh battery on the Warthog don't expect a ton of range if plan to use throttle only.
Thanks for the replies. I already have a Trek X-Caliber and am in ok condition (been riding a lot more lately) so I would typically pedal the whole time. I was mainly wanting to understand the mechanics of a mid drive. I have been wanting an electric assist fat tire bike for mainly cruising and extending my in-town range as my mountain bike I use for single-track riding (10-15 miles max) but also wanted to explore some mostly paved mountain roads. I'm having a hard time trying to decide between the HD750 or the MD750 as one of the places I am interested in riding is a paved mountain road (about 12 miles up, 12 down) with grades varying from 0 to 7-8% and am wondering if a hub motor would be working too hard vs a mid drive. Sorry, I should probably post this in a different section but I really like the general idea of either the HD/MD 750 or maybe a Bolton Blackbird. Actually, where is a better place to pose these questions in the forum? I don't want to muddy-up this thread too much.
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RMK!
Well-Known Member
I think your questions here are fine but since the bikes are in production but have not yet shipped, direct user experiences are going to be rare to non-existent. Chris C and I both rode the MD1000 and HD750 prototypes at Bolton. His review and test rides were better detailed here than mine and we can only draw on that experience. Since we are both purchasing MD1000's it is reasonable to assume the mid-drive was the more impressive motor. I chose the standard Strumey Archer sealed 5 speed and being a factory direct purchase, Chris was able to get the MD1000 with the excellent Sram X-5 9 speed shifting option. I had also ordered the MD1000 with Sram X-5 but changed my mind and reverted back to the IHD as that was one of the main draws for me to this ebike and, I so enjoyed the controversy that ensued (rolls eyes). 
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TomD
Well-Known Member
Here is one user's impression of the SA IGH on the Luna BABE (half the power of the Ultra). He has a few suggestions to make it last after rebuild.
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RMK!
Well-Known Member
After 60 days of waiting, and having 2 shipping deadlines missed, I reluctantly decided to cancel my order for the MD1000. I'm completely rethinking the ebike I want and why. Not sure I'll be doing a large heavy fat tire bike as originally planned. I'm working a couple of possibilities and may end up with an almost polar opposite of MD1000.
I decided to take a chance on Gravity Bikes. I got the Bullseye Monster XE. It has decent components and appears to be beefy as heck (it arrived yesterday). Tuning and testing to commence today but I like what I see so far. Seems like a much more robust bike than the Rad Rover and only a tad more expensive.
60 days to ship ---- Yikes. Did the factory explain the holdup?
On a side note, I had the same take on the fat tires. They are entirely excessive unless off roading and less weight would be a plus. On steep trails they had superior traction but for on road use more narrow and higher pressure tires make sense. After test riding, the 160NM torque and 41 MPH is pretty addictive............and will be hard to go down in power if the order does not come through.
On a side note, I had the same take on the fat tires. They are entirely excessive unless off roading and less weight would be a plus. On steep trails they had superior traction but for on road use more narrow and higher pressure tires make sense. After test riding, the 160NM torque and 41 MPH is pretty addictive............and will be hard to go down in power if the order does not come through.
RMK!
Well-Known Member
I ordered/paid on May 20th so it was 60 days to cancelling. The original shipment date commitment was 45 days from order/payment date. When it became apparent that wasn't going to happen, I agreed to another 15 days.
Although I asked several times, I was unable to get a reason for the delay or ultimately a strong commitment on an actual shipping date. I probably hung in there longer than I should have but I do regret giving up on that large, comfortable and fast cruiser. Who knows, I might be back if my other options don't pan out in a timely manner.
This is my first option ... hows that for going to the opposite end of the ebike universe?
Smalldog2233
New Member
Thanks for such great information on the MD 1000. For those lucky enough to ride the ”Warthog” and Bolton Bikes, did you also demo his Raptor bike. It is a similar price point, made for trails. It seems those that have been on the MD 1000 are impressed with the balance ’ despite the tires. I am debating between a Mt Bike like the Raptor or the MD 1000. Any thoughts on the difference would be greatly appreciate.
I rode the HD750 and MD1000. The weight of the bike along with the larger tires added to stability and handling for off road trail riding. I am 6'5" and 260# so it did not seem heavy to me even when jumping off on the crest of steep climbs and reorienting the bike. The addition of the 160NM of torque along with its stability was almost surreal compared to my manual off the shelf mountain bike.
It really comes down to your use. If you are going to do down hill mountain bike racing, it is not meant for that . It is a hard tail (added to stability and control in my opinion) so you would not do alot of jumping either. It is intended as a hunting/offroad/adventure bike. For that use I did not find a supperior bike from a specification standpoint and the test ride sealed the deal for me.
It really comes down to your use. If you are going to do down hill mountain bike racing, it is not meant for that . It is a hard tail (added to stability and control in my opinion) so you would not do alot of jumping either. It is intended as a hunting/offroad/adventure bike. For that use I did not find a supperior bike from a specification standpoint and the test ride sealed the deal for me.
Smalldog2233
New Member
Thanks Chris - Adventure, service roads, no racing downhill, no jumps. I am 6ft 190lbs. You did not get a chance to ride the Raptor did you? I am really curious about how different they ride.
No, they offered but I passed because they only had the 24" frame available. Even with the 26" frame I estimated it would be too small for me and did not compare to the frame size and strength of the MD1000. Having TWO batteries incorporated into the frame was another big point for me. I just do not like the batteries that look scabbed on or look out of place on ebikes. Finally, the MD 1000 incorporates into the frame. Second choice would be under the rear rack. The main issue for carrying my weight with added gear on trails was torque and range not to mention the thrill of going 40 MPH if needed. When looking at the bikes side by side I did not want to ride anything but the MD1000 and HD750 because they were visibly supperior for heavy weight on trails.
Smalldog2233
New Member
This is exactly what I needed to hear. I want a substantial bike that is stable, fun, and can go a long way. I will probably do half roads and half dirt, but not extreme off-road. It seems like the two are not even in the same ballpark.
TomD
Well-Known Member
Aftermarket controller makes a big difference on the Ultra. Stock ultra is a battery vampire.. I originally thought I'd need 2 batteries on my Frey CC but the new controller has worked wonders. It's pricey but saved me the price (and weight) of a spare battery, assuming I can get away with just one battery now.
I don't know how efficient the Bafang rear hubs are, but suspect you will farther on the HD750.
I don't know how efficient the Bafang rear hubs are, but suspect you will farther on the HD750.
Smalldog2233
New Member
Tom - do you have one of these bikes or test ride one? I can see in this Thread that you are suspicious of the MD 1000 internal hub holding up, and now you are saying that the stock controller is a problem as well. I think if it was the good folks at Bolton Bikes would discover/solve that problem. It is already nerve-racking to buy a bike sight unseen from so far away. It seems that being a "battery vampire" would bother a lot of people. Anyone else point this out? I am not doubting your experience, but I can't believe it would be true for all Ultra and no one else comment on it.
TomD
Well-Known Member
I think a lot of folks are underwhelmed by the range with the Ultra, so I would say not just me. That is more a commentary on the Ultra, not the MD1000. That's why there's a bit of buzz with the new controller for those of us that have tried it. I can honestly say I now feel I have the best bike available for the money for me (in my case Frey CC with aftermarket controller). I couldn't say that before. So basically, pick whatever bike you want with the Ultra, and if you want your mind blown, get the controller upgrade. Or just order a bike with it to begin with.
Smalldog2233
New Member
Is there a video of this somewhere or has someone demonstrated this on line somewhere?
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