TomD
Well-Known Member
Congrats, haven't seen this setup offered yet. Where did you order from, or did you buy direct from China?
Test ride on a Bikonit MD1000 (Mid-Drive) and HD 750 (Hub-Drive)
- Thread starter RMK!
- Start date
Congrats, haven't seen this setup offered yet. Where did you order from, or did you buy direct from China?
TomD
Well-Known Member
Not sure why you're making this personal. I don't claim to be an expert. I think it's important to highlight issues when you see them. Shrug.
RMK!
Well-Known Member
Alrighty then ...
Thats cool Chris. That was my original configuration until I decided to throw my fate to the wind and order that torque monster motor paired with the sickly IHD 5 speed and belt drive. I'll probably be changing out transmissions every week or so but then, my very busy wife tells me I need more projects so, no worries. Also, I won't be hauling anything but my skinny a$$ and maybe a carbine and pistol to the range so I might get lucky and only break down every month or so ...
Happy Trails!
byunbee
Well-Known Member
Offering support for $2500 on a $2300 bike is not value add. Especially since all they will do is contact the manufacturer and request support on your behalf when you can do it directly on Alibaba in real time chat. I’ve spoken with numerous ebike manufacturers on Alibaba and they are usually very friendly and willing to help resolve your issues.
Of course, this is just my opinion. Everyone can draw their own conclusions.
Oh btw, Watt Wagons “builds” their bikes locally as they are ordered based on the component options the customer selects. Yes, frame and drive train, I’m sure come assembled from the factory, but they have deep understanding of each of their components and their respective limits since they work with the manufacturers to develop their bikes in a feedback loop. Watt Wagons decides each and every component that goes into their bikes. They do this in an informed manner often soliciting feedback from forum members and customers.
Of course, this is just my opinion. Everyone can draw their own conclusions.
Oh btw, Watt Wagons “builds” their bikes locally as they are ordered based on the component options the customer selects. Yes, frame and drive train, I’m sure come assembled from the factory, but they have deep understanding of each of their components and their respective limits since they work with the manufacturers to develop their bikes in a feedback loop. Watt Wagons decides each and every component that goes into their bikes. They do this in an informed manner often soliciting feedback from forum members and customers.
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Do you know if any of them offer cheaper shipping? I know it's a large package, but $600 is a lot for shipping. I don't know if I'm being one of the defenders (intentionally or unintentionally) but I just joined to try to learn more about e bikes and especially the 750 HD which is the one I am considering.
Happy to discuss via messaging if you prefer.
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RMK!
Well-Known Member
While the shipping is expensive, it does include all taxes, possible tariffs and domestic delivery so with all that considered, I took the plunge. BTW, while I do own my own business, it is certainly not in ebikes. This whole world of ebikes is shaky at best and if regulation starts restricting use, it could all go to downhill pretty fast. Caveat Emptor ...
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byunbee
Well-Known Member
$600 is still less than$2500 markup that you’re paying. Just contact the manufacturer directly on Alibaba and assess what you feel comfortable with.
On one hand you may be thinking, “Do I want to take a chance on a company located in China?” But that holds true for the U.S. seller that just imports and sells with a huge mark up. They can close shop anytime they feel the addressing complaints are not worth keeping the business open.
There are reputable ebike companies in China like Frey, Dengfu, Bikonit, etc. Just spend time on doing due diligence which I’m assuming is worth the exorbitant mark up for most people.
Belt Drive Dual Batteries Bafang Ultra Motor Ebike,Electric Bicycle,Electric Bike Made In China - Buy Ebike,Bafang M620,Frey Ebike Product on Alibaba.com
Belt Drive Dual Batteries Bafang Ultra Motor Ebike,Electric Bicycle,Electric Bike Made In China - Buy Ebike,Bafang M620,Frey Ebike Product on Alibaba.com
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Ravi Kempaiah
Well-Known Member
- Region
- Canada
- City
- Halifax
Not sure why you are ignoring some good advice that folks here gave you.
Sturmey Archer makes hubs for regular bikes and low-powered ebikes. They make great products for pedal bikes.
several months ago, I reached out to their HQ in Netherlands and they directed me to their N.American office and upon discussion, I realized that Sturmey Archer may not be good for E-bikes.
Not all hubs can take sustain the belt tension and provide long service life. I crossed off Sturmey Archer hubs from my list after that discussion. Here is what their North American director had to say about the usage on E-bikes. High powered motor + belt tension = waiting for trouble.
A simple discussion with OEM would resolve so many problems. The issue is, the bikes are imported with little to no engineering and testing.
RMK!
Well-Known Member
I appreciate your concern Ravi. I have a call into David @ Sunrace Sturmey Archer Napa. That office is close by and hopefully I will get his opinion on this issue.
OTOH, I assume you are with Watt Wagons and blanket statements like " The issue is, the bikes are imported with little to no engineering and testing." are ignorant and inappropriate. No manufacturer worth their salt would publically make that type of unsubstantiated declaration about another.
OTOH, I assume you are with Watt Wagons and blanket statements like " The issue is, the bikes are imported with little to no engineering and testing." are ignorant and inappropriate. No manufacturer worth their salt would publically make that type of unsubstantiated declaration about another.
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RMK!
Well-Known Member
David Prosser responded to my request for comment this morning re the appropriateness of the Sunrace Sturmey Archer RSX-RK5 IHG with the MD1000 and it's Bafang G510 1000W Ultra Mid Motor with the Gates Belt Drive. He said:
" As long as you are not shifting under load and maintain / adjust the hub to keep up with the shift cable stretching you should be fine. The problem with e-bikes and internally geared hubs always leads back to shifting under load. This is the issue I would say 98% of the time."
So, I consider that a green light from the OEM. I also contacted the the MD1000 factory and they said they had thoroughly tested the Sunrace Sturmey Archer IHD with the Bafang Ultra Gates Belt Drive and were comfortable with that combination as it is currently implemented.
So if some of you don't mind (and even if you do), I consider this issue settled and further discussion/speculation is unwarranted. My order is in process and will be shipping soon. I am very anxious to get in the saddle of the MD1000 and will be posting my impressions here in the next month or so.
" As long as you are not shifting under load and maintain / adjust the hub to keep up with the shift cable stretching you should be fine. The problem with e-bikes and internally geared hubs always leads back to shifting under load. This is the issue I would say 98% of the time."
So, I consider that a green light from the OEM. I also contacted the the MD1000 factory and they said they had thoroughly tested the Sunrace Sturmey Archer IHD with the Bafang Ultra Gates Belt Drive and were comfortable with that combination as it is currently implemented.
So if some of you don't mind (and even if you do), I consider this issue settled and further discussion/speculation is unwarranted. My order is in process and will be shipping soon. I am very anxious to get in the saddle of the MD1000 and will be posting my impressions here in the next month or so.
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byunbee
Well-Known Member
Maybe I’m not understanding this correctly, but if shifting under load is an issue 98% of the time, isn’t that a problem?
That was the exact issue @pushkar validated where the 5-speed SA broke and his decision not to offer this. Rohloff and Kindernay doesn’t have the shifting under load issue as they are built to withstand the load.
That was the exact issue @pushkar validated where the 5-speed SA broke and his decision not to offer this. Rohloff and Kindernay doesn’t have the shifting under load issue as they are built to withstand the load.
It's not IF the electronics work correctly as there is a pause in power during shifting to protect the drivetrain. If it fails to work properly, it may grenade but that can be true with many things we use each day.
Sonder
Member
Thank you all for this great info.
I like the Bikonit HD750 white but also €600-700 shipping and taxes is a lot for a €1150 bike.
I ride 1-2 times a week, light off road trails, no hills.
I want to go fast but pedal slowly with not much effort.
The configuration I am thinking about is
- 750 hub drive
- white
- lights, fenders, rack
- 2nd battery
I think that will be €1450
Shipping is 600 or 700
So Total about 2100
Ofcourse Bolton is more expensive, but he has to give warrenty, have spare parts etcetera.
I am waiting for your reviews and see how long it takes to deliver.
Watching this thread
I like the Bikonit HD750 white but also €600-700 shipping and taxes is a lot for a €1150 bike.
I ride 1-2 times a week, light off road trails, no hills.
I want to go fast but pedal slowly with not much effort.
The configuration I am thinking about is
- 750 hub drive
- white
- lights, fenders, rack
- 2nd battery
I think that will be €1450
Shipping is 600 or 700
So Total about 2100
Ofcourse Bolton is more expensive, but he has to give warrenty, have spare parts etcetera.
I am waiting for your reviews and see how long it takes to deliver.
Watching this thread
When I test drove the MD1000 with the SA it was not hard to figure out what it did and did not like. I had no problems helping the bike with a brief pause to down shift when needed. Not having ridden an ebike before I preferred doing pedal assist on power setting 2 or 3 (out of 5) for medium on road up grades with the expectation of loosing speed up grades. The motor had so much power I found that I shifted much less than a manual bike. The belt drive was also very quiet and shifting very smooth compared to a derailer. The ONLY thing to pay attention to was down shifting under load which with some brief practice was not an issue. It is a really fun bike with more than expected performance. If I were not having predominant use on steep off road trails hauling gear it would be a good way to go. My gut feeling is that if a person is a skilled rider and has a moderate mechanical sense it will perform well while giving thrills and smoking most other ebikes. Probably not good for a rental bike where learners misuse it repeatedly.
RMK!
Well-Known Member
Thanks for your contributions to this Thread Chris. I'm all in on the MD1000 and I hope things will settle down and the exchanges of information will be more civil. I've found, riding my current ebike is the best way to clear my head and get perspective.
I spent a year on the Grand Jury last year. Finding common ground with 18 other jurors on many complicated and often controversial issues was challenging. Compared to that, an ebike forum is a piece of cake ...
I spent a year on the Grand Jury last year. Finding common ground with 18 other jurors on many complicated and often controversial issues was challenging. Compared to that, an ebike forum is a piece of cake ...
Got my order in last week. This will be a quantum leap from my old off the shelf mountain/trail bike. I broke a spoke on it a few days ago on the last harry down hill with heavy back pack. Scared me pretty good. I figured the dollars were worth the increased safety of the new bike. My wife encouraged me to get the heaviest, stoutest, strongest bike I could find. Can't wait till it gets here. This thread and forum was a real help.
I have had friends that did the grand jury service. Great experience. I did 15 yrs managing large state construction contacts and associated continuous dispute resolution. Well used to emotions going every which way with passionate people but well worth the associations/friendships formed.
I have had friends that did the grand jury service. Great experience. I did 15 yrs managing large state construction contacts and associated continuous dispute resolution. Well used to emotions going every which way with passionate people but well worth the associations/friendships formed.
Some bloke broke one under a 'stress test' is hardly conclusive evidence. I'm pretty sure I can break most things if I abuse them.
Shifting under load isn't recommended with the rohloff either. This is straight off the rohloff website:
"Like all Rohloff Speedhub gear changes, you should not pedal with any significant force whilst changing gears - after a little time this action become a natural, speedy and unconscious movement. "
But you have already made your mind up and refuse all other information. So I'm not sure why you are still here? If it's just to show everyone how right you are, you're wasting your time.
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This may sound like a stupid question but does a mid drive typically have a one-way bearing so one can go throttle-only and it turns the crank gear separately from the crank itself or do you have to be physically pedaling at all times for it to work? More specifically is that the case with the Bikonit MD750 and 1000? I have a firm grasp on how the hub drive version operates but not so much the mid drive.
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