Talk About The Kindernay Gear System

[byunbee]

Is that one of the first year upgrades for founders?

 

[pushkar]

Is that one of the first year upgrades for founders?

 

[pushkar]

All kidding aside , at the very least I’ll make that available as an option for founders at a nominal charge.

 

[byunbee]

A few weeks back, you mentioned something about a surprise upgrade that you would announce shortly. When will you be revealing that?

 

[AdilDesai]

Kindernay is different.

1. I like the hydraulic shifting - very crisp. There are no mid-shift type issues so far - e.g. with typical IGH the gear may engage half way (if you know what i mean). With Kindernay if you click, it always engages at 100%.

2. Shifting 3 gears at a time is awesome. With other hubs, I have to 'look' briefly to ensure I am not geared too high or too low when I shift. With Kindernay, you are always ± 3 and you are never too far away from your desired gear. This is growing on me now.

Both changes are very subtle and talking in computer terms, it frees up ~5-10% of my CPU while riding. (I am sure there is a better analogy here). As I mentioned earlier, this affects placement of the throttle, but that is an ok compromise for me personally.

3. Removing the wheel is extremely easy, no need to have a flathead to disconnect the cables / reconnect them. No need to worry about checking if i still have all 14 gears after putting back the cables. No need to re-tension, no need to calibrate / recalibrate.


4. Downside - Like the Rohloff, you need a special socket to tighten the rear cog. Thankfully it is a standard 38mm socket - and you can find it at a local hardware store.

5. Downside 2 - Swapping shells isnt as easy as it sounds. That part of the value is minimal, and it is not practical to do it every day.Takes anywhere between 15-30 minutes to swap. I can see myself doing this if I am switching bikes or switching wheelsets on the same bike (e.g. going from 3 inch tires to 2.2inch).

6. Downside 3 - There are limited rims with 28H drill pattern. We are working with Velocity to custom drill those.

7. Downside 4 - there is no 170mm or 177mm dropout version if you have a mid-fat dropout. Its not a hard part to make but 170mm isn't standard right now.

Comparing it to the Rohloff, all other things are very very similar - good efficiency, and overall riding experience is very comparable. It is the minor quibbles with the maintenance where Kindernay is better. It is a tad more expensive - so there is a trade off between value versus cost.

If you have a rohloff already, there is marginal gain. I wouldn't be able to make a case to switch. If you are in the market for a new bike, I think its worth going the Kindernay route (long term).

Edit- cleaned up some formatting / verbiage.

Really nice analysis and feedback. Since I'm new to e-bikes, and my first purchase has been a Watt Wagon, I am relying on you and the forum members to help guide me. Kindernay looks great, but I worry about a new IGH versus one that has been viewed as the gold standard for so many years.

Thumb shifting is appealing, but electronic shifting is even more appealing. I know that you said that electronic isn't on Kindernay's radar. I also recall reading that Rohloff electronic shifting might be exclusive to Bosch for some time. But do you think that electronic shifting for Rohloff is more likely to come to Bafang before Kindernay gets around to it?

 

[TomD]

Pushkar, with so many toys to play with how do you have time for a real job?

 

[Ebiker33]

@pushkar can you expand on the throttle advantage of the Kindernay compared to the Rohloff, you never mentioned that on your list.

 

[pushkar]

@pushkar can you expand on the throttle advantage of the Kindernay compared to the Rohloff, you never mentioned that on your list.

throttle advantage ?

 

[coldriderwi]

If you are in the market for a new bike, I think its worth going the Kindernay route (long term).

Something for current superbike buyers to consider. This is a $200 upgrade from the Rohloff?

 

[pushkar]

Something for current superbike buyers to consider. This is a $200 upgrade from the Rohloff?

yeah..

 

[pushkar]

They already treat me like a leper for buying my bikes direct..

haha.. you made me spill my coffee.

Any difference in LBS serviceability for Kindernay ? They already treat me like a leper for buying my bikes direct.. Don't want them to have to go to school on my parts.

1. Fixing IGH is not trivial, and I dont intend to have my customers wait for things to be fixed. In the outside chance anything goes wrong, I will ship you a new hub, just pop it in and start riding. You can ship me back the old one.

2. The only other thing to "fix" is the hydraulic shifting cables - if someone accidentally snips / punctures them, then it is like a hydraulic brake cable. Fairly standard stuff. That doesn't mean you wont have the LBS issues but hope it is simpler.

 

[Bluzrif]

Kindernay looks like a viable option ... Are they used widely enough that a local bike shop should be able to service if necessary? Yeah I edited my previous to be kinder

 

[pushkar]

Kindernay looks like a viable option ... Are they used widely enough that a local bike shop should be able to service if necessary? Yeah I edited my previous to be kinder

I dont believe a lot of Bike shops have seen the kindernay. That being said, what type of service are you looking for ? - Oil change ?

 

[Bluzrif]

Good point.. and given your service commitment above .... I'm on the wagon!

 

[byunbee]

How often due the oil need to be changed on the Kindernay?

 

[pushkar]

Every 6000-7000 miles.

 

[byunbee]

Is it something easily doable by the user?

 

[pushkar]

Is it something easily doable by the user?

yes, absolutely.

 

[Deacon Blues]

Since I have some reliability concerns about the electric Rhohloff kit I'm starting to really warm up to the Kindernay unit. With the Rhohloff, if it needed repairs, I'd have to send off the entire wheel and Rhohloff hub for repairs and that, from Canada, will REALLY expensive, but with the Kindernay, I'd only have to send off the hub.
I'm a "the glass if half full" kinda guy, meaning that if there is going to be problems it will happen to me. If Pushkar finally gives a favourable review for the Kindernay unit that's the way I'll probably go with both the bikes I ordered.

 

[AdilDesai]

Since I have some reliability concerns about the electric Rhohloff kit I'm starting to really warm up to the Kindernay unit. With the Rhohloff, if it needed repairs, I'd have to send off the entire wheel and Rhohloff hub for repairs and that, from Canada, will REALLY expensive, but with the Kindernay, I'd only have to send off the hub.
I'm a "the glass if half full" kinda guy, meaning that if there is going to be problems it will happen to me. If Pushkar finally gives a favourable review for the Kindernay unit that's the way I'll probably go with both the bikes I ordered.

There's an electronic shift kit available for the Rohloff that isn't tied into a Bosch motor???