ST5 vs Riese & Muller mid drive for hills

[steve mercier]

OT, but with the Bafang Ultra, gear changes are practically optional. I can't imagine having to use the lowest three gears. Hills ? Ha!

I also have a powerful rear hub motor Chinese bike that climbs steep hills at 25 kph . It is fun to go fast BUT on that bike I get almost no excersize because I dont have the self discipline to share the work load with the motor. I much prefer to climb a bit slower with my Bosch CX

 

[steve mercier]

It seems like you are in the same position as I am in and considering the same bikes. The area that I live in is supposed to be mountain bike heaven but trails are in National and State Forests. For trails Ebikes are considered motorized vehicles and and not allowed at this time. That is probably why none of the bike shops carry Ebikes as most of them are geared toward mountain bikes. However, the roads around here are just as nice. I am sure there are many grades in excess of 15% especially near my house.

Another Ebike I considered was an Optibike R8C that will be out in the Spring and priced about the same, around $10K. They are very flexible in which components you want and will configure it to your needs. The R8C will be configured as a Class 3. However, it is throttle only to 20 MPH and pedelac to 28 MPH. Also the motor seems very noisy and only sold direct from Colorado. I had started another thread in the Optibike Forum but no reply. Not sure I would get much exercise with this bike and really don't like the idea of a throttle.

I am close to 70, recently retired, and want to ride for pleasure and exercise. Not in good shape but not overweight and only weigh around 150 lbs.

A class 1 Ebike is allowed anywhere that a normal bike can go. I know this is true in California and Canada. Is it not the same in your state ?

 

[Oldman70]

A class 1 Ebike is allowed anywhere that a normal bike can go. I know this is true in California and Canada. Is it not the same in your state ?

I checked online and could not find any designation in Class for Ebikes. I am in North Carolina near the Blue Ridge Parkway and Pisgah Forest. I also stopped in at a local Specialized dealer to look at their Ebikes and they had none. The person seemed very knowledgeable. He said they would like to carry the Specialized Ebikes but no market as not allowed on trails. The other shops around me don't seem to carry any Ebikes either; bummer.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

A class 1 Ebike is allowed anywhere that a normal bike can go. I know this is true in California and Canada. Is it not the same in your state ?

What actually is allowed and disallowed varies bewilderingly depending on which state you are in and which agency manages the land the trail in question traverses. They unfortunate fact is that existing law and regulations did not anticipate e-bikes and in a lot of cases still doesn't really have a clue how to deal with them.

 

[TForan]

I also have a powerful rear hub motor Chinese bike that climbs steep hills at 25 kph . It is fun to go fast BUT on that bike I get almost no excersize because I dont have the self discipline to share the work load with the motor. I much prefer to climb a bit slower with my Bosch CX

All I have to do is turn the assist down and I can make it as difficult as I want. Turn it off and it's a real workout! Personally, I don't ride for exercise only. Any bike is a compromised exercise routine.

 

[steve mercier]

All I have to do is turn the assist down and I can make it as difficult as I want. Turn it off and it's a real workout! Personally, I don't ride for exercise only. Any bike is a compromised exercise routine.

That is true you can turn it down ,but when I do that on my hub motor bike it is for some reason quite unsatisfying to ride that way ,so I never do. I have not ridden a Stromer so I dont know anything about them. Does it use a power cutoff switch on the brakes? I am not a fan of bikes that need that.

 

[TForan]

That is true you can turn it down ,but when I do that on my hub motor bike it is for some reason quite unsatisfying to ride that way ,so I never do. I have not ridden a Stromer so I dont know anything about them. Does it use a power cutoff switch on the brakes? I am not a fan of bikes that need that.

I have a Biktrix with the Ultra mid drive. Love to ride a Stromer one day.

 

[steve mercier]

I have a Biktrix with the Ultra mid drive. Love to ride a Stromer one day.

oh I must be having a senior's moment because I thought you had a Stromer . Which model Biktrix do you have ? got any pics? I just went to their website. The Juggernaut classic HD looks pretty cool!

 

[TForan]

oh I must be having a senior's moment because I thought you had a Stromer . Which model Biktrix do you have ? got any pics? I just went to their website. The Juggernaut classic HD looks pretty cool!

It's a Juggernaut with the Bafang Ultra.

 

[steve mercier]

It's a Juggernaut with the Bafang Ultra.

View attachment 27650

Interesting. I would like to try it.

 

[steve mercier]

It seems like you are in the same position as I am in and considering the same bikes. The area that I live in is supposed to be mountain bike heaven but trails are in National and State Forests. For trails Ebikes are considered motorized vehicles and and not allowed at this time. That is probably why none of the bike shops carry Ebikes as most of them are geared toward mountain bikes. However, the roads around here are just as nice. I am sure there are many grades in excess of 15% especially near my house.

Another Ebike I considered was an Optibike R8C that will be out in the Spring and priced about the same, around $10K. They are very flexible in which components you want and will configure it to your needs. The R8C will be configured as a Class 3. However, it is throttle only to 20 MPH and pedelac to 28 MPH. Also the motor seems very noisy and only sold direct from Colorado. I had started another thread in the Optibike Forum but no reply. Not sure I would get much exercise with this bike and really don't like the idea of a throttle.

I am close to 70, recently retired, and want to ride for pleasure and exercise. Not in good shape but not overweight and only weigh around 150 lbs.

DEFINITION OF ELECTRIC BIKE:
The state of North Carolina (NC) defines an electric bike as a bicycle with a small helper motor with less than 750W and a maximum speed of 25mph on flat surfaces. Riders must be at least 16 years of age.

LICENSING AND REGISTRATION:
The state of North Carolina does not allow registration of electric bikes.

HELMET LAW:
Helmets are required for all riders.

WHERE TO RIDE:
Electric bicycles are permitted to ride on all public highways and roadways with a posted speed limit of less than 25mph, on sidewalks, in bike lanes and on bike paths. Operators of electric bikes must yield right-of-way to pedestrian and human powered devices.


DISCLAIMER:
Laws and policies can change at any time rendering the above information outdated and non-applicable. EVELO strongly encourages checking with City, County, State and other local agencies for the most recent laws governing the proper, legal use of electric bicycles in your area.

Source:
North Carolina Department of Transportation

 

[AbeK]

If you're willing to bring your own power in, the Stromer will reward you. If not, buy a mid-drive.

I was getting frustrated going up the steep hill back to my house on the ST5. It was so much harder to get up that hill on the ST5 than on my R&M Superdelite HS Rohloff. What confused me about this is the Strommer is much faster and has far better acceleration than the Superdelite, so why is it so weak on the steep hill? I read and re-read @bluecat's statement above and finally understood it. With the Superdelite, you can simply put it into a granny gear and pedal with little effort up the hill. That does *not* work well on the ST5. On the ST5 you need to get up off the seat and put your full weight into the pedaling, and then the bike *flies* up the hill, far faster and in a higher gear than the Superdelite. Now I understand. And it is indeed rewarding and awesome fun!

 

[steve mercier]

Hub motor VS mid drive ...it would be interesting to take a preference poll. Count my one vote for mid drive.

 

[AbeK]

Hub motor VS mid drive ...it would be interesting to take a preference poll. Count my one vote for mid drive.

I’m not so sure the motor alone makes that much difference. It’s how the whole package works together that probably matters most.

My hub-motor Stromer is much more fun than my mid-drive R&M Superdelite. It is quieter, faster and sportier. But the Superdelite Rohloff HS is more comfortable (full suspension) and requires less rider effort on steep hills. How much of the experience is due to the motor alone and how much is due to the overall design and engineering of each bike is hard to say.

Ideally, I suppose, you’d have test both motors on the same bike to get a good answer. Even then, you’d have to question whether the bike was taking full advantage of each motor.

I remember the old days when front-wheel drive cars first came out and there was a big debate about whether it was better or worse than rear-wheel drive. No one talks about that anymore. I know, it’s not a perfect analogy, but I think over the long term the hub-mid debate will also fade away. And maybe like cars, we’ll end up with all-wheel drive bikes

 

[Law]

My Bulls Iconic speed riding impression sounds like a hybrid of both bikes referenced here, irregardless of drive.

 

[Johnny]

My hub-motor Stromer is much more fun than my mid-drive R&M Superdelite. It is quieter, faster and sportier. But the Superdelite Rohloff HS ... requires less rider effort on steep hills.

Those are due to the motor/controller/sensor differences. Your experience will be similar when you compare ST5 to any bosch mid drive based bike.

 

[bluecat]

Hub motor VS mid drive ...it would be interesting to take a preference poll.

Who needs a tractor, who needs a sports car? The preferences are driven by the field of use...

 

[steve mercier]

Who needs a tractor, who needs a sports car? The preferences are driven by the field of use...

I will have the sports car

 

[bluecat]

I will have the sports car

No doubt, the ST5 would be a great "Sports Car". But in front of a steep hill and a bad path, would you not better choose the Lightrider, because a "Tractor" would fit better?

 

[steve mercier]

The FS bike looks like a bike I would be interested in if it has the EP8 motor (85nm). That is the one I would call the sports car. Not the Stromer. I watched a man standing on the pedals last week , struggling up a hill on his Stromer. That would be the tractor to me. Also it has no suspension so the only sports car analogy I could think of would be an old British Morgan with a wood frame. "Those that felt that a genuine sports car needed to be hard-riding, hoary, heavy-steering, uncomfortable , this was your machine".