ShareRoller - Quick and Dirty Electric Bikes

Jeff has issued about 30 deadlines since this all started and hasn't met one of them. Each time he kicks the ball a few months down the road, nobody hears from him, his backers become understandably upset, he then issues an email that reads something like "woah guys, if only we were as focused on PR as we are on engineering, sorry for the lack of updates, unfortunately we can't release this now because I need to update component X to super extreme premium quality." Rinse....repeat.

Despite his promise to get his website updated with new content (which was apparently contingent on his last patent filing that he states he made), he apparently couldn't be bothered to take a few photos to assuage anyone's concerns that a near production ready version of this thing actually exists. I don't doubt his sincerity to bring this to market, but if I were to take a wild guess, I'd say he's low on money and spends more time knocking on venture capital doors than he does engineering things at this juncture. The $88,000 he raised on Indiegogo would have been burned up years ago in development costs.

I have faith in his efforts - he obviously had fully working models at the Mobility show in Los Angeles. This is hardly the only crowdfunded project to take years to come to fruition (see Helix, etc.). Crowdfunding is not for the faint of heart or those who need their items in a specific time frame, that much I have learned backing several things. I personally would rather wait and get something that does what it is said to do rather than get something sooner that does not - there are plenty of those kinds of projects crowdfunded as well. I suspect there is an issue with the new cable and some communication would be nice. Hopefully we will get an update in the next month or so.
 
I will bet that ShareRoller v4 is a great product and a great success, but that doesn't mean the IndieGogo backers are being treated right.

Perhaps the backers are seen by some as naive to expect someone to do what they say they will do, but others would see ShareRoller as committing fraud on some level (not necessarily legally; the law hasn't caught up yet). Just because someone is happy to give you their money does not mean you should take it from them.

Perhaps what ShareRoller should have done was to raise funds the old-fashioned way and then bring a product to market ready to sell to willing buyers. Rather than that, ShareRoller took advantage of those who believed in them and their words, took advantage because the backers have no rights and no power to do anything about it.
 
I will bet that ShareRoller v4 is a great product and a great success, but that doesn't mean the IndieGogo backers are being treated right.

Perhaps the backers are seen by some as naive to expect someone to do what they say they will do, but others would see ShareRoller as committing fraud on some level (not necessarily legally; the law hasn't caught up yet). Just because someone is happy to give you their money does not mean you should take it from them.

Perhaps what ShareRoller should have done was to raise funds the old-fashioned way and then bring a product to market ready to sell to willing buyers. Rather than that, ShareRoller took advantage of those who believed in them and their words, took advantage because the backers have no rights and no power to do anything about it.

Well, as someone who has backed multiple crowdfunded projects, we all know the risks. There is nothing fraudulent because the terms clearly spell out that you are not purchasing something, you are backing the development of a product. I believe I read somewhere that less than 20% of crowdfunded projects fail to deliver, so in many cases it works. I don't feel taken advantage of, because I received the "benefit" of seriously reduced pricing in exchange for my backing. Had Jeff followed traditional processes and gone to straight retail, I would not have afforded this item. IF the product, when finally delivered, performs as described then I got a bargain. The only fraud with crowdfunding, imo, is when projects don't deliver WHAT they promise, not WHEN they promise. I backed one project that failed the "what" rather dramatically and it took me months of hassle and legal work to get back part of what I paid. Now that was Fraud, with a capital F (if interested, go read comments on IGG for Urbanext Wheel). It's pretty clear from Jeff's silence that he has run into some problem, and he probably doesn't want to update until he has some idea of a solution and a new timeframe guess.
 
Another update from ShareRoller today with another delay, but also lots of new details about and images of the device:


Hello ShareRoller Indiegogo backer:

First off, our apologies for the long delay in getting out this Update - we have been absolutely scrambling over the past two months trying to get every component shipped to us before our China suppliers shut down for the Chinese New Year (CNY) holiday, which falls on Feb 16th this year. The Chinese New Year is a 3-week+ shutdown for ALL factories that we were trying our hardest to avoid...

Unfortunately, we didn't make it and now several suppliers will not be able to deliver components until after the break, namely our Battery Pack and Wireless Controller suppliers. This means it will be the end of February at the earliest before we can expect to receive these components, and more than likely will slip into March, given the slow start-up that is common after this holiday. This is an enormously frustrating scheduling impact for us, and we understand it is equally painful for our Backers as well. Please accept our apologies for this further delay and know that we are doing everything we can.

Several main issues pushed us past the CNY holiday shutdown:

Wireless Controller Waterproofing: During wet weather testing, we discovered that our wireless controller housing was not adequately protected from water ingress. Given the multitude of controls and ports on our remote (Single-axis joystick, two buttons, two switches, and a Micro-USB port), a standard rubber seal was not effective enough. So we had to go back to the drawing board and design a custom latex bladder to enclose all the electronics, and move to an IP67-rated Micro-USB port since that needs to be exposed.

Wireless Controller FCC Certification: We had understood that FCC certification was already completed by our wireless controller supplier, since the base wireless architecture is already in commercial use. Unfortunately, we've learned that Chinese suppliers often complete only CE certification for wireless, since the FCC process is so expensive and time-consuming. So we've had to pay for complete FCC certification on our own, and it's not just expensive but also time-consuming. Hence the delay.

Battery Pack Mold Tooling : We've been unbelievably frustrated at how long it has taken to start the tooling for the battery pack molds. Believe it or not, we paid our deposit for these molds back in April 2017 (!), and we've expected the mold to start month after month after month since then. So we haven't been misleading you when we've said the tooling was about to begin, again and again. To our great frustration, there has been one change request after another from the molding engineers in China, and many of them have not been acceptable, so we've had to go through prolonged back and forth design iterations to find a workable solution. I can count nearly 500 emails this year alone between us and our battery supplier! BUT, at long last the design has passed final approval on both sides and the molds will start tooling this week. Our supplier is doing their best to expedite the lengthy tooling process (normally 6 weeks), so we're hoping to have it done by the end of February, and then Battery Pack assembly can begin (a much quicker process).

Given all of the delays with the Battery Packs, we've unfortunately had to postpone production of the Ultra size packs. However, with the advances in Lithium battery cell tech over the past two years, and the fact that we're using the highest-quality cells on the market (and most expensive!), our Standard packs now have 300 Watt-hours of capacity, nearly 40% more than we originally promised for the Standard pack, and 75% of the range of the original Ultra spec. Regardless, we will still offer partial refunds for all of our Ultra pack Backers, which of course could be applied to extra packs if you wish! And some good news for all the 'Mini' Backers out there too - the final capacity spec is 130 Watt-Hours for the Mini packs, almost 20% more range than originally promised!

Now that all the disappointing news is out of the way, at long last we can show you ALL the glorious details of the final design. We're very sorry to have kept you in the dark for so long on exactly what you would be getting (!), so we're thrilled to finally share all of the pics and details below. We are in the process of updating our website for Pre-Orders, but the photo and video shoots are taking much longer than expected. So in the meantime here is a sneak-preview of the all-new SR4 -apologies for the renders only, but we should have photos soon and will share them with you as soon as do.

First off, here's how the SR4 looks when assembled and carried: the Mini is shown below - it really is tiny:


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And here is an annotated pictogram of the assembled SR4 package: Battery Pack + Motor Module + Wireless Remote (again, the Mini version is shown below)

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And here is a close-up annotated pictogram of the SR4 Motor Module alone- the feature-packed heart and soul of ShareRoller:

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And here are the key measurements of the Mini vs Standard combinations.

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And since it's hard to see every detail with two pics, here's a rotating pictorial of the Motor Module so you can see it from every angle:

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Now for some detail on SR4's groundbreaking new Automated Traction Control System (ATCS) with Motorized Normal Force Control. This Patent-Pending technology transforms the century-old technology of Friction Drive, making it finally competitive with more common E-Bike powertrains. We've described this to you previously, but here is a LOT more detail - hopefully this will make you appreciate the significance of this advance (and all the work it has entailed!):

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Here's a small video animation to sum up how it all works:

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And now on to our completely custom wireless controller. We looked at all the available E-Bike and E-Skate throttle systems on the market, and none of them came close to what we wanted for a truly removable and portable system. And none had the feature-packed functionality we desired. So we designed our own implementation (using existing wireless tech), creating a completely unique form factor that gives vastly more versatility in mounting options, and significantly better control options than anything else on the market.

With a dual-direction infinitely variable 'joystick' controller for Throttle and Brake, a second 'Throttle Mode' switch, and two separate buttons, this controller offers way more 'control' than anything else out there. It also works in tandem with our optional PAS sensor (coming soon), so you can easily adjust assist levels on the fly, activate Regen Braking, and control Drive Motor engagement as well (for when you want to pedal without any motor assistance and eliminate drag).

With a built-in rechargeable battery and Micro-USB port plus two battery/signal LEDs, you'll find it incredibly convenient to use as well. And we've also figured out a clever way to attach the throttle to the battery pack using a high-strength magnetic attachment point. It's super-quick to snap on/off and makes the whole Install/Remove for SR4 as fast and easy as possible.

This has taken a ton of work, and for competitive reasons we've kept it under wraps for as long as possible, but at long last we're ready to share it with our Backers. We hope you like it!

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And finally, an update on mounting options: if you recall, we've told you previously that the new SR4 design supports multiple mounting options, including both front and rear wheel installations (as a reminder, you will still be given a chance to update your mount options prior to shipment). So let's look at all the mount options more closely:

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Zooming in on some close-ups - first of the Front Universal Mount (note that we have Front U-Mounts that fit both Suspension and Non-Suspension forks, as well as both V-Brakes, Disc Brakes, and Side-pull brakes):

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And a perspective view of the Rear Wheel Kickstand Bracket U-Mount - we were thrilled to validate that the SR4 will fit between the pedal cranks and chainring of most bike types:


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And finally, of the Rear Wheel Seatpost U-Mount and Rear Wheel Topeak MTX Rack Mount. Note that both of these mounts also offer the option to attach the Battery Pack to the mount itself, making for a 'one-piece' ShareRoller installation. And since they are both Quick-Release designs, these can be installed in seconds even for the first installation, and without a single tool! A great option for Rental Bikes or other situations where you want to ride a 'loaner' bike:

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Keep in mind that our Front Universal Bike Mount will also work on any other platform with V-Brakes, including many Folding Bikes (Dahons for example), Kick Bikes (Sidewalker, KickBike America, Amish) and some Kick Scooters (like the Sidewalker Micro we have here in our office).

In addition to the amazing new set of Universal Bike Mounts, we also are busy with our 3D Scanner finalizing Custom Mounts for unique folding bikes, trikes, and scooters. Here's a partial list of what we're developing - if anyone has any specific requests, please let us know:

Folding Bikes:
- Brompton
- Strida

Trikes:
- Trikke T78

Kick Scooters:
- Hudora Big Wheel Air Dual-Brake
- KickPed
- Razor A5/A6
- Micro PedalFlow

To give you a sense of how our Custom Mounts work, here's an image of 3D-scanned Brompton with a Custom Mount (we hope our Brompton backers are as thrilled as we are that the new SR4 can remain on the bike when folding without any interference!):

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And one last detail: here is how our quick-release mount for the Battery Packs works (you've probably been wondering how we could keep the sub-10 second install/remove of the 1-piece ShareRoller when moving to a separate, frame-mounted Battery Pack). The solution? It uses the Topeak QR CageMount removable water bottle mounting system - a robust and affordable system that's easy to install on every bike you own. Here's how it works:

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And since it mounts to the bike using standard water bottle braze-ons, if your bike (or scooter) doesn't have braze-ons, many off-the-shelf products are available to easily add them on (secured via velcro, zip-ties, or clamps - we'll provide a list of our favorites later).

And if you want to use ShareRoller on a compatible bike share system (please consult your system operator first), you'll prefer our Multi-Mount Battery Pack option. It's a little bit bulkier, but allows you to have both bike share triangle pockets as well as a Topeak QR CageMount bracket disposed on the same Battery Pack:

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Whew, that's it for now. We hope this gigantic email made its way into your Inbox successfully. And that you found the time to read it all!

We'll keep you posted as we finish photo and video shoots and move to re-launch www.shareroller.com - so there's lots of great content on the way. And of course we will keep you updated on the progress of our last straggling supplier deliveries.

Thank you again for your patience and support.

Jeff Guida & The ShareRoller Team
 
Wow, the mini is so tiny! Still thinking Spring delivery in time for great riding weather. Happy to get the update, silence makes me nervous, but it seems like it's starting to come together finally. Fingers crossed it stays on track now.
 
Wow, the mini is so tiny! Still thinking Spring delivery in time for great riding weather. Happy to get the update, silence makes me nervous, but it seems like it's starting to come together finally. Fingers crossed it stays on track now.

And even the standard model is only 6 pounds. That is ridiculously light for battery, motor, controls, etc. This will make it easy to add electric power to a bike without a huge weight penalty.
 
As they say a lot on Reddit, TIL (today I learned)...

Chinese New Year will begin on Friday, February 16th, 2018. Typically, Chinese offices and factories close for about three working weeks, allowing workers time to travel back home to spend the holiday with their families.
...
Although CNY officially only lasts for one week, many factories and businesses shut down about 10 days before CNY to allow time for workers to travel home.
...
Don’t forget to account for travel time back to the city. In all, the holiday can disrupt production and shipping schedules for up to three weeks or more. Interestingly, the CNY holiday is also considered a prime time to switch jobs, and many workers don’t return to work at all. This can lead to even longer production times as factories struggle to find new workers and ramp up on production orders.

http://www.ewmfg.com/chinese-new-year/
 
Thanks for posting the update Nirmala! About the only thing we can rely on! Yet more revisions blah blah blah! Based on the track record I think spring delivery is highly unlikely more like 2019! Each update brings so many new changes / fixes needed. Every time this also means none of the components have therefore been tested together - more problems! To think when Jeff came on the scene with the original SR it was working (albeit not refined). Why he didn't just improve that design slightly, box it up and sell is beyond me. Then the SR4 brought out at a later date could be the premium version and guess what people who brought the basic would be likely to upgrade. Nevermind whilst each update and month comes and goes Add-e and Rubbee rake in the sales!
 
I understand the frustration but - unless you had followed the campaigns for Add-e, Rubbee, and Go-e, you would be unaware of the problems they have had POST delivery. Go and try to find some reviews for each other those - it's not easy, but you will discover that each of them performed below expectations and failed to deliver a good experience to many users. The original Rubbee was quite literally a disaster - go read the campaign comments. Add-e and Go-e have had numerous purchasers beg for returns after receiving their units. And I recently avoided a similar disaster with the Urbanext Wheel. I'm appreciative of the time taken to make sure something is done right (of course, we won't know until we get them, but Jeff didn't have major issues with the first iteration). Yes, an interim version would have been nice so backers got their devices sooner but then the SR4 might not even have been crowdfunded but rather sold at full retail, so many would not have upgraded for the $1000+ cost...or it might not have been developed at all. If the SR"3" did well and Jeff was able to retail it, he might not have gone on to make the latest improvements, at least for several more years. We'll never know. I, for one, won't judge until I receive it. If it is a good as described, and not problematic out of the box like so many other friction drives on crowdfunding, I'll be fine with the wait. If you're a backer and not happy waiting, there are people who will gladly take your place.
 
Anyone of the backers willing to resign? I'd gladly take over his pledge, subject to Jeff's approval. Thanks
 
If you're a backer and not happy waiting, there are people who will gladly take your place.

I hope this wasn't a callous, roundabout attempt to say that backers who are not happy are wrong to feel like that. Are you trying to say they should be happy to wait--especially should they be happy after the many, many (and ongoing) "sorry, almost there" blandishments?

Separately (as it should be): Of course I will gladly take over a bet now that I don't have to pay as big a waiting cost and there is more evidence than ever that my bet will pay off. If you had bet on the Philadelphia Eagles to win the Super Bowl before last season, I would gladly have taken over your bet--at the same price!--with one month to go in the season. Would the people you speak of who will take my place in line for an SRv3 (3 then, now 4) be glad to pay me the premium I deserve for the time value of my "investment" and/or for the increased information that we now possess?

Finally, regarding "there are people who will gladly take your place." There may be fewer than you think if you expect them to pay what you paid two years ago. The market is being flooded with electric bikes and related goods. One can now buy a decent electric bike for under $1,000. Could you have said that two years ago? How many people will pay a premium to be able to take a lesser version, surely, of an electric bicycle from bike to bike?
 
I hope this wasn't a callous, roundabout attempt to say that backers who are not happy are wrong to feel like that. Are you trying to say they should be happy to wait--especially should they be happy after the many, many (and ongoing) "sorry, almost there" blandishments?

Separately (as it should be): Of course I will gladly take over a bet now that I don't have to pay as big a waiting cost and there is more evidence than ever that my bet will pay off. If you had bet on the Philadelphia Eagles to win the Super Bowl before last season, I would gladly have taken over your bet--at the same price!--with one month to go in the season. Would the people you speak of who will take my place in line for an SRv3 (3 then, now 4) be glad to pay me the premium I deserve for the time value of my "investment" and/or for the increased information that we now possess?

Finally, regarding "there are people who will gladly take your place." There may be fewer than you think if you expect them to pay what you paid two years ago. The market is being flooded with electric bikes and related goods. One can now buy a decent electric bike for under $1,000. Could you have said that two years ago? How many people will pay a premium to be able to take a lesser version, surely, of an electric bicycle from bike to bike?

You misunderstood me. I purchased my position from a backer who wanted out (sometimes ones needs change over time) and I paid him interest on his investment period. We both ended up with a win, getting exactly what we wanted. I know at least one other person who would like to do that as well. For some of us, the SR is the best solution available for our needs - I do not consider it a lesser version of anything, it is unique.
 
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He wanted the thing that was promised: a ShareRoller v3. He didn't get it.
You are missing the point. At one time that is what he wanted. His needs and desires changed over time. Yes, due to delays but that's what happens with crowdfunding; there's a risk and he knowingly took it. In the end, he wanted to get out and he got his original payment +. He's not complaining so why are you? You're not a backer AFAIK. I'm waiting on another crowdfunded project where the developer has dropped off the map and I'm probably not going to get anything for my investment. On another crowdfunding venture I backed, I lost 30% and received absolutely nothing. That's the risk of crowdfunding - you might get it late or never. When you back a KS or IGG project you assume the risk that you could end up losing every cent you put in the project; that's made clear up front. So, yes, backers have the right to be unhappy with long delays but they knowingly signed up for that risk. The backer I replaced was lucky in that he was able to sell his position after long delays and with zero guarantee that I will actually receive the product.
 
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He's not complaining so why are you?

I am tempted to cite your statement--So, yes, backers have the right to be unhappy with long delays--and let it go at that, but...

My comments are a nice counterpoint to the rah-rah boosterism of others' comments. The boosterism is unnecessary since everyone ever heard from on this forum (me too!) thinks ShareRoller is (or will be) a great product.

The complaints, as you know, are about how the backers are being treated--and the delays are only part of it (as you have ignored so far). Do you disagree that another thing--other than the delay itself--that backers have the right to be unhappy about are the many, repeated messages from ShareRoller regarding possible delivery dates? To be told over and over again that delivery is now "next month" and it not being true must make people unhappy separate from their unhappiness over the delay itself.

So let us add to your statement that backers have the right to be unhappy with long delays by stating that backers have the right to be unhappy about repeatedly being told that things will happen but those things don't happen.

And, to put it in terms of your favorite defense, those who issue statements know the risks of not meeting the expectations that their statements cause. ShareRoller isn't complaining about the unhappiness caused by their statements not being true, so why are you?
 
I am tempted to cite your statement--So, yes, backers have the right to be unhappy with long delays--and let it go at that, but...

My comments are a nice counterpoint to the rah-rah boosterism of others' comments. The boosterism is unnecessary since everyone ever heard from on this forum (me too!) thinks ShareRoller is (or will be) a great product.

The complaints, as you know, are about how the backers are being treated--and the delays are only part of it (as you have ignored so far). Do you disagree that another thing--other than the delay itself--that backers have the right to be unhappy about are the many, repeated messages from ShareRoller regarding possible delivery dates? To be told over and over again that delivery is now "next month" and it not being true must make people unhappy separate from their unhappiness over the delay itself.

So let us add to your statement that backers have the right to be unhappy with long delays by stating that backers have the right to be unhappy about repeatedly being told that things will happen but those things don't happen.

And, to put it in terms of your favorite defense, those who issue statements know the risks of not meeting the expectations that their statements cause. ShareRoller isn't complaining about the unhappiness caused by their statements not being true, so why are you?

I'm not interested in getting a fight with you. You made a bunch of assumptions about my initial post on this and were wrong ( seller received more than he paid and his needs changed having nothing to do with SR). Have you ever backed crowdfunded projects? I have...more than 10. And only one of them actually delivered on time and as described (and that was an existing company). Helix is more than 2 years late and cost way more than Shareroller. Yes, you can be unhappy with the delays but whining is pointless. Customers are getting a massive discount in exchange for putting up with the delays and other missed time estimates. Projects on KS and IGG are "development" items and whatever happens in the process of development, however unexpected, is what you sign up for. These guys are engineers and developers not customer service wizards or business planners. It is what it is - a gamble. I don't go to Vegas; I support KS projects.

Would I like all my crowdfunded projects to deliver on time, hell yes. But that's called paying "full retail". Funny how the two people complaining most on here seem to not actually be project backers.
 
(1) Backers have the right to be unhappy with long delays.
(2) Backers have the right to be unhappy about repeatedly being told that things will happen but those things don't happen.
 
ShareRoller will remind us in the next update that Chinese New Year related delays are really not over until the end of March. It is not ShareRoller's fault. ShareRoller is just as frustrated by it as you are.

Chinese New Year 2018 Timeline
  • November: Confirm when your supplier is closing and reopening for the CNY
  • December 10th: Last day to place an order before the CNY
  • February 2nd: Some suppliers and subcontractors stop production, causing disruption in the supply chain
  • February 9th: Many workers have already left the factories. Sales reps, engineers and management may still be around for a couple of days more.
  • February 13th: All personnel has left the factory
  • February 16th: Chinese New Years Eve
  • March 6th: Employees, mostly sales reps and some engineers, start to come back. Some may have extended holidays.
  • March 13th: Most employees, including assembly line workers, are back in the factories.
  • March 28th: Operations are getting back to normal after the Post-CNY disruption.
 
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