ShareRoller - Quick and Dirty Electric Bikes

[Nirmala]

Another email and another delay:
Hello ShareRoller Indiegogo backer:

Now that August has arrived, we wanted to share a quick update, as we know you are more than ready for your ShareRoller(s) to arrive. We continue to get closer to assembly kick-off, with 4 of 7 key supplier sub-components now received or shipped, and 2 in final supplier production testing. But unfortunately our battery packs have been delayed another month, as production sample testing revealed further weatherproofing requirements for an IP54 rating (see below for detail).

We do expect to begin assembly of the main motor modules this month, but the battery packs will now delay shipment until September. We're terribly sorry to keep you waiting longer, but we absolutely want to be sure ShareRoller's battery packs can stand up to any amount of rainy weather!

On a more positive note, in preparation for our production launch we have moved into a much larger assembly facility here in lower Manhattan. This new space will allow us to both expand the ShareRoller Team and to produce the significantly higher volumes we hope ShareRoller will achieve once full launch occurs. It's a very exciting step for ShareRoller and we look forward to sharing photos of the new space soon!

And for those who want to read further, here is additional detail below on all key subcomponents:

• Drive Motors: Our supplier has completed and shipped the first production run of our incredible custom Drive Motors. Since we managed to incorporate a few performance enhancements vs our earlier production samples (slightly thicker magnets for one), we can't wait to test out the optimized production version!

• Heatsinks: With our diecast molds complete, our supplier has manufactured and shipped the first production run of our heatsink set (shown below is the smaller of the pair).

• Gearmotors: Our custom designed ultra-high torque gearmotors+encoders have been received and are awaiting assembly here in our new space.

• Retracting battery cables: We had to make a small unexpected change to the tooling last month, but that is now complete and the final plastic shells are in production (samples below). Assembly and shipment of our first production run should be complete within 2 weeks.

• Wireless throttles: Since we had the time, we made one last change to a button position on the custom PCB, and expect to receive our production batch before the end of the month. We'll share pictures of our ultra-versatile and ultra-functional throttle design then.

• PCBs: We had to make a few more tweaks to the design before doing a volume run, but still expect to receive production units before the end of the month.

• Battery Packs: Below is a picture of a production prototype pack being assembled by our supplier - the BMS board has yet to be installed, hence the gap between the cells and the retracting battery cable (also a sample).

The issue with waterproofing had to do with the joint between the top and bottom halves of the battery pack shell. Initially our supplier felt we could meet IP5X level waterproofing without a rubber seal between the shells, but testing proved otherwise. So we had to design the custom seal below, and have another mold made to produce the seal, which takes several weeks, hence the one month delay.

At least with the rubber seal in place, the battery packs should have no trouble exceeding the IP54 standards, meaning you'll never have any problems riding in the rain.

Again, we're terribly sorry for these further delays and we really wish there were some way we could deliver sooner. Fortunately, we continue to get closer and closer to the goal (despite the fact that the goalposts keep moving on us!), and we're confident the ShareRoller SR4 we finally deliver will far exceed all expectations.

Thank you again for your patience and support.

Jeff Guida & The ShareRoller Team

 

[Superstig666]

Thanks for posting the update Nirmala!

It's quite worrying to hear they are still making changes to some parts that sounded ready previously i.e new updates to the throttle.

Even more worrying is the addition of bigger magnets to the motor which requires further testing. I am no motor expert but if the testing doesn't go well that could easily add another couple of months on as they try to find a solution.

Whilst I understand some of the delays I think their passion to make a perfect item keep improving is clouding their mission to actually deliver a product i.e nothing will ever be perfect despite how long you spend on it as there is always room for improvement with anything.

That being said moving into a larger production space is good news which sounds like it is close for wider distribution (although not something backers would want to hear initially I guess as again taking focus away form finishing the product).

My money is still on deliveries December - March earliest! If I am wrong I will happy bow down to their greatness!!

Jamie

 

[Allie Miller]

I am not declaring or implying anything sinister when I say: Shareroller has been much more concerned about future customers than with the original Indiegogo "customers." For Shareroller, there is hardly any downside to making the Indiegogo folks wait and wait while improving their product. Will the future Shareroller customers care at all that the Indiegogo group had to wait so long? No. At launch, will the media coverage, new customer tweets, and YouTube videos be about the long wait or about the great new product?

Think about Jeff trying to decide whether to complete and ship Version 3 knowing that he had a much better product to come. Why go to all that effort and expense shipping a product that you knew would be instantly obsolete and that you would not want to support after you ship it? Why risk negative reviews for Version 3 that might hurt the new Shareroller brand when you know you have a Version 4 coming? I would say you do it because you promised a couple of hundred people that you would, but that is easy for me to say since I wouldn't have do all the work necessary to ship and support Version 3.

My assumption is that Jeff was not trying to "con" or "play" anyone. I am assuming that he was sincere in believing that he would raise the money for Version 3, produce it, and ship it, but then he saw all the improvements (and patent protection) he could make and realized that he would prefer to disappoint a couple of hundred people for a (long) time rather than ship and support Version 3. That was the choice he made, I am assuming.

Am I wrong about any or all of this?

 

[Lin B]

I am not declaring or implying anything sinister when I say: Shareroller has been much more concerned about future customers than with the original Indiegogo "customers." For Shareroller, there is hardly any downside to making the Indiegogo folks wait and wait while improving their product. Will the future Shareroller customers care at all that the Indiegogo group had to wait so long? No. At launch, will the media coverage, new customer tweets, and YouTube videos be about the long wait or about the great new product?

Think about Jeff trying to decide whether to complete and ship Version 3 knowing that he had a much better product to come. Why go to all that effort and expense shipping a product that you knew would be instantly obsolete and that you would not want to support after you ship it? Why risk negative reviews for Version 3 that might hurt the new Shareroller brand when you know you have a Version 4 coming? I would say you do it because you promised a couple of hundred people that you would, but that is easy for me to say since I wouldn't have do all the work necessary to ship and support Version 3.

My assumption is that Jeff was not trying to "con" or "play" anyone. I am assuming that he was sincere in believing that he would raise the money for Version 3, produce it, and ship it, but then he saw all the improvements (and patent protection) he could make and realized that he would prefer to disappoint a couple of hundred people for a (long) time rather than ship and support Version 3. That was the choice he made, I am assuming.

Am I wrong about any or all of this?

I kind of wish v3 had been fulfilled, because I was waiting for the v4 kickstarter. Now there won't be one, so I'm going to be paying full retail for my unit. Sigh. But it sounds amazing and exactly like what I need so I will (off to find Ramen sales). You v3 guys are really lucky to get it on this new version at the price you pledged (plus the credit he's giving for waiting so long). Anyone wanna sell me their place in line??????

 

[Lin B]

Seriously, if anyone's needs or circumstances have changed and they want out for some reason - with the "mini" version - I would be willing to purchase and provide you a profit for waiting as long as Jeff is willing to transfer the slot to me. Let me know if your needs have changed for some reason. Fingers crossed.

 

[Allie Miller]

You v3 guys are really lucky to get it on this new version at the price you pledged

With changes in the marketplace since 2015, I wouldn't bet against a retail price for Version 4 that is not much above--perhaps even below--the original Indiegogo prices. When add-on electric motors can be had for $250 or less on Amazon, how much of a premium will people be willing to pay for the Shareroller? If the Shareroller price is too high, I will buy a Bafang (or lesser) motor kit and forego the chance to electrify a scooter. If the Shareroller becomes the Rolls Royce of electric drives for bikes, it will not, unfortunately, be my electric drive.

 

[Lin B]

With changes in the marketplace since 2015, I wouldn't bet against a retail price for Version 4 that is not much above--perhaps even below--the original Indiegogo prices. When add-on electric motors can be had for $250 or less on Amazon, how much of a premium will people be willing to pay for the Shareroller? If the Shareroller price is too high, I will buy a Bafang (or lesser) motor kit and forego the chance to electrify a scooter. If the Shareroller becomes the Rolls Royce of electric drives for bikes, it will not, unfortunately, be my electric drive.

For me, the advantage is the usability 00 on any bike, so I can put it on my 20" folder or my 16". That would require two completely separate hub motor setups. It also can go on any future bike I build. If you want something for one bike, dedicated to that bike, where the added weight of a permanent hub motor isn't an issue, then it might seem pricey. As we know, the smaller and lighter stuff gets, the higher the price. A hub motor system is going to equal the weight of the shareroller just in the hub unit, and then you have the batteries, wiring, controller, etc. When Rubbee first came out it was $1200 but recently was selling for $800 due to economies of scale. But now they are working on something new so the old ones are not available anymore. I'm sure it will be pricey at first, too. Plus, I don't want to have to file down my dropouts to fit a bigger axle.

 

[frankt]

is there a purchase queue ??

 

[Allie Miller]

is there a purchase queue ??

Not that I know of. [Note: I only know what I read--I am not associated with Shareroller in any way.]

I assume that when the new version of the Shareroller.com web site appears, there will be a way to order a Version 4 Shareroller. Of course we don't know at this point if we will be able to buy directly from Shareroller or will have to purchase from a retailer. I am guessing I will be ordering Version 4 directly from Shareroller. I would be surprised if Shareroller shows up on WalMart shelves, but perhaps if Shareroller goes the wholesale route rather than direct sales, maybe we will be buying it at REI or something like that.

 

[Lin B]

Not that I know of. [Note: I only know what I read--I am not associated with Shareroller in any way.]

I assume that when the new version of the Shareroller.com web site appears, there will be a way to order a Version 4 Shareroller. Of course we don't know at this point if we will be able to buy directly from Shareroller or will have to purchase from a retailer. I am guessing I will be ordering Version 4 directly from Shareroller. I would be surprised if Shareroller shows up on WalMart shelves, but perhaps if Shareroller goes the wholesale route rather than direct sales, maybe we will be buying it at REI or something like that.

Jeff responded to me on Facebook and said there will be units for sale after the pre-orders on hand are shipped out. He will open up ordering online on his website and buyers will have a 4-8 week wait. He said pricing was not set yet. I can't wait! I had hoped to have a solution by Sept. 24 so I could join my son and his friends on my son's 30th birthday ride, but I guess I won't make it as I can't keep up on my own with 30-somethings. :-(. Still, I will be happy to get a shareroller whenever available.

 

[Superstig666]

Oh no, just seen there's another delay! Can someone post the full update? Many Thanks

 

[Nirmala]

And once more, another delay:

Hello ShareRoller Indiegogo backer:

September is here and we continue to make progress towards shipment, but unfortunately design iterations for the waterproof Battery Pack seal have taken 4 weeks longer than expected. As a result, our pack supplier is now promising us that production packs will ship by the end of October, instead of the end of September.

We're as frustrated as you are by this one, as it's completely out of our control, and this is the third significant timeline delay we've been hit with. However, we have a lot of faith in this supplier (they are used by several highly-respected industry players), and we're confident the final packs will be of the highest quality. And to be fair, this is likely not uncommon when creating a feature-packed entirely custom pack from the ground up...

Here's a photo montage from our supplier showing all the key features of our custom packs in the latest production prototype - please note that these are still 3D-printed plastics, and the production packs with injection-molded plastic will have a much smoother finish (similar to the production retractor shown below, which already uses injection-molded plastics):

Outside of Battery Pack development, the good news is that this delay has given us more time to test other components, in particular our new production Drive Motors. You'll be pleased to hear that we've confirmed that the new motors can provide solid power all the way to 28mph (45 km/h) on flat ground. Now, we do need to comply with the US Federal E-Bike law (15 U.S. Code § 2085), specifically:

"maximum speed on a paved level surface, when powered solely by such a motor while ridden by an operator who weighs 170 pounds, is less than 20 mph"

But, rather than simply cutting all power above 20mph, we can just reduce power output above 20mph such that it's not enough to push a 170lb rider above 20mph without some pedaling assistance from the rider (this equates to a ~300W cap).

(Note: In the EU, these limits are more restrictive (no assistance allowed above 15.5mph), and this will be the default software setting for EU shipments. We are looking into how best to implement an 'off-road only' mode for EU customers.)

So, with light pedaling you'll be able to easily cruise at 28mph on flat ground. We've even tested this for 10-mile continuous stretches at 27-28mph on hot August days, and motor temperatures remained within our target limits.

And it's a very good thing we were able to do this prolonged high-speed durability testing, as we discovered that our Urethane Drive Belts stretch just a little too much when they reach maximum temperature and maximum RPM simultaneously, causing some minor slippage with respect to the motor rotor. So we've already worked with our urethane supplier to improve the stiffness of the belts (but without changing the incredibly grippy compound). We're glad we caught this early, and these revised belts will be ready before the battery packs, so at least some good will come out of this delay!

We'll keep you posted on further progress and we're hoping it's all good news from here on.

Thank you again for your patience and support.

Jeff Guida & The ShareRoller Team

 

[Allie Miller]

As a result, our pack supplier is now promising us that production packs will ship by the end of October, instead of the end of September.

I wonder if those production packs will ship by the end of October? Will they be here for Halloween or will it be moved back to Thanksgiving (or Christmas)?

 

[Lin B]

As a result, our pack supplier is now promising us that production packs will ship by the end of October, instead of the end of September.

I wonder if those production packs will ship by the end of October? Will they be here for Halloween or will it be moved back to Thanksgiving (or Christmas)?

I've mentally decided January will be delivery, based on nothing but my internal sensors, so if it comes sooner - woohoo! I hope Jeff will update again once he receives them.

 

[Superstig666]

Well I said I would be surprised if there was a December delivery.

This update highlights there is still a long way to go before shipment. New drive belts = more testing. 3d printed casing = more testing. Off road mode = another mod taking up time that's potentially not needed by all. Plus bear in mind actually all of these components still need to be assembled and tested together as one which you guessed it needs more testing and more delay.

I love the line "the good news is that this delay has given us more time to test other components" ... yes and probably caused further delays as tweaks still being made.

If you receive your shareroller by March I think you would be very lucky but expect we could be sat here till mid next year before we see the proof of the pudding!

Fingers crossed I am wrong though

 

[Nirmala]

And yet another email and another delay:

Hello ShareRoller Indiegogo backer:

Unfortunately, we have some bad news regarding our production timeline. Just as we were kicking off the battery pack mold tooling last month, we experienced a failure of one of our retractable battery cable production samples. After several months of high power durability testing (higher than will occur under normal operation), the rotating electrical connection mechanism in the sample failed.

While it's possible the retractors would be fine under the normal production ShareRoller power levels, we didn't want to take any chances, so we've been working with our retractable cable supplier on a solution for the past 3 weeks. We've increased the grade and thickness of the copper rings and brushes that make up the rotating electrical connection, and we've got an improved design now undergoing final testing at our supplier. Here's a picture of the upgraded parts:

We are hopeful that this will solve the issue, but it will be another two weeks before we're able to validate it fully, since we need to perform our own testing here in the US as well.

The most frustrating part of this redesign is that it has prevented us from starting the battery pack mold tooling, the longest lead-time part remaining. Since the retractable battery cable sits inside the battery pack housing, if we need to change the size of the retractor in any way, we will have to modify the battery pack housing. So we have to wait until the retractor issue is confirmed solved before we can start the battery pack mold tooling. It is truly exasperating.

Once we start the mold tooling, production packs can ship in approximately 6 weeks if our battery supplier pulls out all the stops, which now pushes us back to mid-December provided this retractor fix proves out. We're beyond disappointed by this additional delay and have no doubt that you are as well. In hindsight, we've probably been a bit too ambitious in creating nearly all custom components, but it's practically impossible to make a game-changing product like ShareRoller using off-the-shelf ones. And the downside to entirely bespoke production, as we've all learned over the past 16 months, appears to be seemingly perpetual delays. But we're closer than ever and we will get to production soon. And we're completely sure that when it's all said and done, there will be no doubt it was worth the effort.

In other more positive news, ShareRoller has just been selected as a Finalist in a prestigious international 'Urban Mobility' event. We can't formally announce it until next week, when the conference kicks off their PR campaign, but it's a terrific sign that the market is beginning to recognize the unparalleled versatility that ShareRoller brings to personal electric transport. We're hoping that some of you may be able to make it to the event and see us in person (it's on the US West Coast). Further details to come soon.

We'll update everyone again once the retractor revisions have been validated and the battery pack mold tooling has begun.

Thank you again for your patience and support.

Jeff Guida & The ShareRoller Team

 

[Lin B]

Well I said I would be surprised if there was a December delivery.

This update highlights there is still a long way to go before shipment. New drive belts = more testing. 3d printed casing = more testing. Off road mode = another mod taking up time that's potentially not needed by all. Plus bear in mind actually all of these components still need to be assembled and tested together as one which you guessed it needs more testing and more delay.

I love the line "the good news is that this delay has given us more time to test other components" ... yes and probably caused further delays as tweaks still being made.

If you receive your shareroller by March I think you would be very lucky but expect we could be sat here till mid next year before we see the proof of the pudding!

Fingers crossed I am wrong though

Fingers crossed for Spring delivery. I'm almost 69 years old and I told Jeff I was leaving my rights to my heirs, lol. Just in case. But after having been involved in a disaster all-in-one wheel, I'd still rather wait and feel confident I won't have problems once I receive it. That would be the worst scenario!

 

[Allie Miller]

Having no money on the line, I am moving on. I will certainly consider buying a ShareRoller after it has been out in the real world for a year, but this latest notice of cascading delays has left me free to stop wasting time hoping for Prince Charming to sweep (propel?) me off my feet. Luckily, there is a great deal of activity in the electric bike/scooter marketplace, many new products actually exist, lots of large and small companies are competing for our dollars. None of their products is as great as ShareRoller will be, but at least I can use their product while waiting. In five years, none of this waiting will matter to any but the original "investors" (and some dreamers like me), and the ShareRoller will be a huge success. In the meantime, we have lots of decent alternatives--and more arriving every day..

 

[Lin B]

Having no money on the line, I am moving on. I will certainly consider buying a ShareRoller after it has been out in the real world for a year, but this latest notice of cascading delays has left me free to stop wasting time hoping for Prince Charming to sweep (propel?) me off my feet. Luckily, there is a great deal of activity in the electric bike/scooter marketplace, many new products actually exist, lots of large and small companies are competing for our dollars. None of their products is as great as ShareRoller will be, but at least I can use their product while waiting. In five years, none of this waiting will matter to any but the original "investors" (and some dreamers like me), and the ShareRoller will be a huge success. In the meantime, we have lots of decent alternatives--and more arriving every day..

If you are okay with something that has few "bells and whistles" check this out: http://pe-drives.com/models/ Not a crowdfuning product so no risk or waiting.

 

[Allie Miller]

If you are okay with something that has few "bells and whistles" check this out: http://pe-drives.com/models/ Not a crowdfuning product so no risk or waiting.

That is exactly the kind of "decent alternative" I was talking about. If I can find enough in-depth/good reviews to make me feel comfortable, I will buy one. I don't need literal or figurative bells or whistles (I can buy literal ones separately, after all), but I do need to have useful torque for going up a 20-degree hill both ways on my commute. I live on a hill and my workplace is at the top of a different hill.