ShareRoller - Quick and Dirty Electric Bikes

[Lin B]

That is exactly the kind of "decent alternative" I was talking about. If I can find enough in-depth/good reviews to make me feel comfortable, I will buy one. I don't need literal or figurative bells or whistles (I can buy literal ones separately, after all), but I do need to have useful torque for going up a 20-degree hill both ways on my commute. I live on a hill and my workplace is at the top of a different hill.

If you go that route, let me know how it works out for you. I couldn't find any actual reviews of this unit but they are all pretty much the same (add-e, go-e, me'n'e, eazy bike - all crowdfunded). This one has no throttle, no settings, etc, so it is as simple as it can be, less to go wrong. I'm not in any rush or I would consider it, but I can wait.

 

[Allie Miller]

"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!" Michael Corleone, The Godfather, III
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ShareRoller.com HAS BEEN UPDATED! I saw it today, Tuesday, November 7, 2017.

The web site says...
ALL-NEW SHAREROLLER SRV4 LAUNCHING DEC 2017
LIMITED PRE-ORDER OPENINGS WILL BE AVAILABLE - SIGN UP BELOW

Dare we hope it is real? How long after one orders does it take to get an SRV4? Do they wait to get an order before they put one together? Who knows. At least with an offer for sale (as opposed to an Indiegogo "investment"), various government agencies and the courts can get involved if one doesn't receive a product or if it doesn't work the way the company says it will.

 

[Lin B]

"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!" Michael Corleone, The Godfather, III
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ShareRoller.com HAS BEEN UPDATED! I saw it today, Tuesday, November 7, 2017.

The web site says...
ALL-NEW SHAREROLLER SRV4 LAUNCHING DEC 2017
LIMITED PRE-ORDER OPENINGS WILL BE AVAILABLE - SIGN UP BELOW

Dare we hope it is real? How long after one orders does it take to get an SRV4? Do they wait to get an order before they put one together? Who knows. At least with an offer for sale (as opposed to an Indiegogo "investment"), various government agencies and the courts can get involved if one doesn't receive a product or if it doesn't work the way the company says it will.

Be still my beating heart!!! So maybe that means our IGG units will be shipping by end of December. That would be amazing! I'm getting a new bike which will come right around then - meant to be. My Bike Friday pakiT + my shareroller = an electric bike at <23lbs.
Trying not to get too excited...

 

[Allie Miller]

From the email that comes form signing up on the ShareRoller.com web site this week, it looks like it could take more than three (3) months to actually receive a ShareRoller v4 if you are trying to "Pre-Order."

1 month -- until the web site relaunch in "approximately four weeks"--that is when you actually Pre-Order
2 months -- the SRv4 ships "8 weeks" after "order placement"
3 months total delay from right now

I assume original Indiegogo buyers will not have to wait that long, but I don't know. [Note: I have no affiliation with ShareRoller in any way. I am just guessing.]

With an eight (8) week lag between ordering a product and having it shipped, that makes me think that at least for now they are going to take orders until they get enough to buy more parts to make the ordered SRv4s. That is, there will be no stock of SRv4s to pull from; they will be made only after they are ordered. Disappointing but understandable. I suppose a Tesla Model 3 is a $1 billion version of that (though the deposits don't equal $1 billion).

 

[Lin B]

From the email that comes form signing up on the ShareRoller.com web site this week, it looks like it could take more than three (3) months to actually receive a ShareRoller v4 if you are trying to "Pre-Order."

1 month -- until the web site relaunch in "approximately four weeks"--that is when you actually Pre-Order
2 months -- the SRv4 ships "8 weeks" after "order placement"
3 months total delay from right now

I assume original Indiegogo buyers will not have to wait that long, but I don't know. [Note: I have no affiliation with ShareRoller in any way. I am just guessing.]

With an eight (8) week lag between ordering a product and having it shipped, that makes me think that at least for now they are going to take orders until they get enough to buy more parts to make the ordered SRv4s. That is, there will be no stock of SRv4s to pull from; they will be made only after they are ordered. Disappointing but understandable. I suppose a Tesla Model 3 is a $1 billion version of that (though the deposits don't equal $1 billion).

When I was chatting with Jeff, prior to my taking over a backer position, he told me 6-8 weeks once available for purchase at retail. I think the quote is long in part because retail customers, unlike crowdfunders, are not okay with stuff being late, lol. So I'm guessing he's added a little time in there because s**t happens. It also gives him 3 months to get clear of all IGG orders and any issues that arise from them. I suspect he will have the parts ready for the retail units (wouldn't make sense to make small orders; I'm assuming he ordered excess from the start for any replacements + retail sales for a while). So the retail units will just require assembly and quality testing before he can ship them. But, like I said, I hope he is giving himself a fair amount of leeway because a few negative reviews on retail units due to delay could tank him.

 

[Nirmala]

Another update:

Hello ShareRoller Indiegogo backer:

We have some exciting news to share. If you remember in our last Update, we mentioned that ShareRoller had been selected as a Finalist in a prestigious international 'Urban Mobility' event? Well, that event was the L.A. New Mobility Challenge:

http://www.lacomotion.com/press_roo...sts-15-startups-selected-100-global-entrants/

And just last week, ShareRoller was selected as the category winner, the Top Startup Innovation in Personal Mobility:

Here's a link to the Tweet above - if you expand the pic and look closely, you'll see that small device I'm holding is the SR4 Mini assembly (Battery Pack + Motor). It really is tiny!
https://twitter.com/LA_CoMotion/status/931719949067763713

We're tremendously excited to have been selected by a jury of mobility industry leaders from amongst an impressive group of competitors. Not only that, but the interest we received from festival participants, including bike and scooter manufacturers and bike share operators, gives us confidence that ShareRoller has a very bright future.

We apologize that we weren't able to invite any of you to attend and see us in person as hoped, but the competition session days were not open to the public, and we weren't able to stay long enough to participate in the public demo days. We've got ShareRollers to get into production after all!

However, if any of you are interested in seeing our presentation, LACoMotion has posted it on their Facebook page. We start 44 minutes in:

https://www.facebook.com/LACMOnews/videos/508478079528112/

And some more good news: our retractor improvements have now passed all our durability tests! So the 6-week battery molding and production process can now get underway. In addition, we've realized an unexpected side-benefit: while re-evaluating the entire retracting battery cable assembly, we discovered some weaknesses in the battery cable itself: it was not flexible enough to convince us it would withstand years of use, and it was getting a bit hotter than we liked under maximum current stress tests (when fully retracted, where air convection disappears).

Unfortunately, given that our retractor design requires coiling a long length of high-current cable into a very small diameter housing, there literally was not a single cable on the market that could meet all of our demands for size (small!), flexibility (max!), and current carrying capacity (high!). Our retractor supplier told us our only option was to significantly increase the size of the retractor assembly, which would have required increasing the size of the battery packs. That was not an answer we were willing to accept!

So we sought out and found the top aerospace cable manufacturer in the world (that fortunately likes working on interesting small projects) and worked with them over the past few weeks to design a custom-spec cable that met all of those demands. The downside is that it is going to be over 20 times more expensive than the cable we had (!), but it's a no-brainer for us given the amazing improvement in quality. Plus, it's pretty awesome that ShareRoller's battery cables will be made by the same manufacturer that supplies cables for fighter jets, guided missiles, and satellites. And they also happen to look pretty cool (see below). It will take them 5 weeks to make the cable batch for us, so this shouldn't hold up the battery packs by much.

We've also now filed our last remaining Patent Application that was holding up our full disclosure of the entire new SR4 design. So as soon as we can get a modest photo shoot put together we will begin updating our website with all the glorious detail that has until now remained under wraps. And we will be sure to send our Backers some early previews as soon as we possibly can, since we realize a full unveiling is long overdue!

Look for lots of new photos and website content coming over the month of December, and hopefully the first production packs rolling out of the factory before NYE. We also plan to open up discounted Pre-Order slots for new customers during the month (to ship after all the Indiegogo units of course, and at much higher prices), so if you have any friends interested in the SR4 this will be their most affordable option. And finally, we promise the Updates will get more frequent and more exciting as we near the finish line!

Thank you again for your patience and support.

Jeff Guida & The ShareRoller Team

 

[Allie Miller]

We also plan to open up discounted Pre-Order slots for new customers during the month (to ship after all the Indiegogo units of course, and at much higher prices)...

Oh, well. I think I am going to be priced out of the ShareRoller market. Instead of the Lexus-level ShareRoller v4, I will have to buy the new Toyota-level Rubbee X at some much lower price.

Lexuses are better than Toyotas, and I would rather have a Lexus, but I bought a Toyota because I could not afford a Lexus. If I can't afford the ShareRoller v4, I will have to make do with a Rubbee X or a hub motor. I do think that the existence of the ShareRoller v4 will make all the competitors have to work harder and be better just as Toyota's quality made other car manufacturers improve their cars to have any chance in the marketplace.

Here is a link to a YouTube video of the new Rubbee X...

 

[Lin B]

We also plan to open up discounted Pre-Order slots for new customers during the month (to ship after all the Indiegogo units of course, and at much higher prices)...

Oh, well. I think I am going to be priced out of the ShareRoller market. Instead of the Lexus-level ShareRoller v4, I will have to buy the new Toyota-level Rubbee X at some much lower price.

Lexuses are better than Toyotas, and I would rather have a Lexus, but I bought a Toyota because I could not afford a Lexus. If I can't afford the ShareRoller v4, I will have to make do with a Rubbee X or a hub motor. I do think that the existence of the ShareRoller v4 will make all the competitors have to work harder and be better just as Toyota's quality made other car manufacturers improve there cars to have any chance in the marketplace.

Here is a link to a YouTube video of the new Rubbee X...

There are some pluses and minuses with Rubbee. Go read the comments on the first kickstarter they ran; some major issues, hopefully not repeated. You can't use it if you use a rear rack, so carrying cargo becomes more of an issue; with SR you can mount front or rear. I do like that the batteries are modular now, that's much smarter. Check out "swytch" on IGG as well.

 

[Superstig666]

Yep, as a non indi backer this comment "New customers during the month (to ship after all the Indiegogo units of course, and at much higher prices)," as mentioned above will likely push me away from it unfortunately.

I may be interested on trying the rubee x too. Agree lower spec but think these things need to be cheap for people to warrant the expense. I was also hoping the Add-e would come down in price significantly as its basically a outrunner and a battery but that doesn't seem to have happened. The problem is whilst the SR looks like it will be great, if it gets to the price of an electric bike then that will cut their customers by a big margin.

I'm obviously going to sound moody now but is also starting to become a pain with their false promises i.e could be issued before NYE yet they still haven't got their aerospace cable or tested it.

 

[Lin B]

Yep, as a non indi backer this comment "New customers during the month (to ship after all the Indiegogo units of course, and at much higher prices)," as mentioned above will likely push me away from it unfortunately.

I may be interested on trying the rubee x too. Agree lower spec but think these things need to be cheap for people to warrant the expense. I was also hoping the Add-e would come down in price significantly as its basically a outrunner and a battery but that doesn't seem to have happened. The problem is whilst the SR looks like it will be great, if it gets to the price of an electric bike then that will cut their customers by a big margin.

I'm obviously going to sound moody now but is also starting to become a pain with their false promises i.e could be issued before NYE yet they still haven't got their aerospace cable or tested it.

Having backed a number of crowdfunded projects, I distinguish between false promises and bad timeframe estimates. False promises are things like missing components or capabilities of an item. Missing deadlines because the dev is going where no one has gone before and doesn't have the perfect handle on time frame is different imo. Yes, we are in December and I am hoping for Jeff to follow up with his more frequent updates as he stated - but I'd rather he work on the SR than write copy, lol. As excited as I was by his last update, I'm still mentally thinking "spring" so I don't get all stressed out...it's working so far.
If you don't need the ability to use a rear rack, the Rubbee is cheap enough via crowdfunding that it's almost disposable. Batteries for a hub unit cost as much, lol. If it didn't get in the way of using my burley travoy I'd get one as a backup option. But their mounting solution is a problem for me. I'm guessing the SR pre-order price will be in between the crowdfunded price and retail (on IGG page) for the ShareRoller...a couple hundred over the crowdfunded price basically.
The thing about SR vs. a dedicated e-bike is that SR can power multiple mobility devices, assuming you have them. Same with Rubbee. I really like that - you can have more than one bike powered up depending on your needs at the moment (i.e. a cargo bike for shopping, and a light bike for touring). So, atleast in my mind, I don't compare the cost of the two options.
Maybe you can ask Jeff for a special discount for long-time lurkers =).

 

[Lin B]

Jeff has been awfully silent since his last post saying lots of posts were coming. I guess that means there's problems with the new cable :-(

 

[Allie Miller]

Look for lots of new photos and website content coming over the month of December, and hopefully the first production packs rolling out of the factory before NYE.

To quote the great Stephen Sondheim: Well, maybe next year.

Also, We've also now filed our last remaining Patent Application that was holding up our full disclosure of the entire new SR4 design, but when I search Google for "jeff guida patent," I still only find the same three patent applications that we have seen before--nothing new from late 2017. Maybe there is a longer delay in the free patent searches getting the information than the patent searches you pay for, but I don't know for sure.

 

[Lin B]

Look for lots of new photos and website content coming over the month of December, and hopefully the first production packs rolling out of the factory before NYE.

To quote the great Stephen Sondheim: Well, maybe next year.

Also, We've also now filed our last remaining Patent Application that was holding up our full disclosure of the entire new SR4 design, but when I search Google for "jeff guida patent," I still only find the same three patent applications that we have seen before--nothing new from late 2017. Maybe there is a longer delay in the free patent searches getting the information than the patent searches you pay for, but I don't know for sure.

Four patents came up when I searched...

 

[Allie Miller]

Four patents came up when I searched...

What are the application dates for those patents?

 

[Lin B]

What are the application dates for those patents?

https://patents.justia.com/inventor/jeffrey-e-guida

 

[Allie Miller]

https://patents.justia.com/inventor/jeffrey-e-guida

Yes, that is what I thought. I found that page, too. Two of those are the same patent. Those four listings are for three different patents.

Here are the dates and patent names from that list of four patents...
Filed: February 7, 2015 --- Portable multi-platform friction drive system with retractable motor drive assembly
Filed: October 19, 2016 --- ADAPTABLE FASTENING MECHANISMS FOR VARIOUS SIZED TUBING
Filed: August 8, 2016 --- AUTOMATIC TRACTION CONTROL FOR FRICTION DRIVES
Filed: February 7, 2015 --- Portable Multi-Platform Friction Drive System with Retractable Motor Drive Assembly

You can see the "duplication." That is caused by the fact that the first one in the list shows the Patent Number. The fourth one in the list, though it is for the same patent application, shows the Publication Number.

The main thing I want to find is a patent application from November or December of 2017. From the "now" of "We've also now filed our last remaining Patent Application," I assumed that Jeff meant something current, recent--NOT from October of 2016.

Also, the "filed" from "We've also now filed" would mean he isn't just waiting for the final patent approval to come in, but has actually filed for a new fourth (if that is the right number) patent.

As I mentioned in a previous posting, I assume that the free patent databases we find through Google are just not as up-to-the-minute as paid patent databases, but I don't really know.

 

[Allie Miller]

Look for lots of new photos and website content coming over the month of December, and hopefully the first production packs rolling out of the factory before NYE.

(I figure that by quoting this again it will work like washing my car to get it to rain, i.e. not very well at all.)

 

[Lin B]

Look for lots of new photos and website content coming over the month of December, and hopefully the first production packs rolling out of the factory before NYE.

(I figure that by quoting this again it will work like washing my car to get it to rain, i.e. not very well at all.)

I like your style =). Obviously new cable issues and Jeff will update eventually, sigh. Hopefully, 3-4 more months will be enough time to solve whatever new problems there are so we can receive it during late Spring/early Summer. He seemed so optimistic in his last update, I can only surmise the problem was a big surprise.

 

[Lares1090b]

Jeff has issued about 30 deadlines since this all started and hasn't met one of them. Each time he kicks the ball a few months down the road, nobody hears from him, his backers become understandably upset, he then issues an email that reads something like "woah guys, if only we were as focused on PR as we are on engineering, sorry for the lack of updates, unfortunately we can't release this now because I need to update component X to super extreme premium quality." Rinse....repeat.

Despite his promise to get his website updated with new content (which was apparently contingent on his last patent filing that he states he made), he apparently couldn't be bothered to take a few photos to assuage anyone's concerns that a near production ready version of this thing actually exists. I don't doubt his sincerity to bring this to market, but if I were to take a wild guess, I'd say he's low on money and spends more time knocking on venture capital doors than he does engineering things at this juncture. The $88,000 he raised on Indiegogo would have been burned up years ago in development costs.

 

[Allie Miller]

Speaking of PR/Public Relations, I find it ironic and bemusing that the PR for the last 12+ months is SO different from the public relations with the original ShareRoller. The original had great videos and interviews and articles and lots of them. Now, we are lucky to hear something once every 30 to 60 days.