Schwalbe Johnny Watts (and other Schwalbe SUV tyres) User Club

[Alaskan]

Was there ever a consensus whether JWs can be run tubeless?

Consensus?...Of course not. T

hey are not rated TLR by Schwalbe but people have mounted them tubeless without any problems.

If you have concerns do what I did on my Riese & Muller Delite Mountain. Use Tubolitos. They save about 100 grams of the weight of traditional butyl rubber tubes and are considerably more durable and less prone to puncture. Weight wise the MTB 27.5 tubolitos weigh 80 grams while 2 oz. of sealant weights 60 grams. and more tubeless sealant that would be needed for such a high volume tire. Be sure to get a tubolito patch kit and/or a S-tubo super light spare to carry in your tool bag. If an when you do get a flat, you will be happy not to be contending with a big goopy mess.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Was there ever a consensus whether JWs can be run tubeless?

It seems nobody of the persons present here had courage to try that out

 

[amayers]

My Superdelite came with Johnny Watts. So far I like them and don't have any complaints., but I am starting to think about which tire I will get next. I'm on track to ride ~6000 miles per year, so I'm expecting by the fall I'll need replacements. 95% of my riding is on pavement, with the remainder being dirt/gravel trails. Nothing muddy or extreme. I use the bike much like most people use a SUV.

The main alternative that I'm considering is the Super Moto-X. It seems like it better fits my usage. But since Schwalbe decided to use different scales on their site, you can't directly compare the two tires and know if the difference is due to a different scale, or the tire its self. For those of you that have ridden on both these tires, do you find the Super Moto-X to have less rolling resistance, or better on-road grip?

 

[Alaskan]

The earlier version of the super moto x had decidedly more rolling resistance. I am not sure about the updated version. Having ridden Marathon Supremes which have a similar lack of tread (or lack thereof), to me they look like they would be better on dry pavement than the old ones but not so great on wet pavement and decidedly no good for trail riding. Perhaps someone who has actually ridden them can chime in.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I had the chance to try 2.6" JWs in their planned role (mixed terrain rides) twice in recent days. I was riding my Trance E+in dry and wet conditions:

• 104 km (64+ mi): 59% paved, 26% dirt, 15% gravel, dry and wet;
• 64+ km (40 mi): 27% paved, 66% dirt, 7% gravel, dry and wet conditions.

The only environment JWs really didn't like was sand but my e-MTB has been able to cut through sand anyway with some sideways slipping (the sand never stopped my ride). I could compare that with Maxxis Minion DHF/High Roller II: Those tyres didn't even notice the presence of sand but were extremely noisy on paved surfaces. Except of sand, JWs could always maintain traction, and the biggest win was their silence on paved roads combined with quite low rolling resistance.

That path led through a marsh, freshly after rainfall. No issue for JWs. (It was a dangerous, 600 m long ride segment - I stopped to take the photo after 150 metres).

Riding a smooth asphalt road was a real pleasure. Thanks to JWs, the only noise to be actually heard was the motor.

Now, let us assume Schwalbe has already created the best multiple purpose tyres: Johnny Watts. Why to replace them with something perhaps inferior?

 

[amayers]

I had the chance to try 2.6" JWs in their planned role (mixed terrain rides) twice in recent days. I was riding my Trance E+in dry and wet conditions:

• 104 km (64+ mi): 59% paved, 26% dirt, 15% gravel, dry and wet;
• 64+ km (40 mi): 27% paved, 66% dirt, 7% gravel, dry and wet conditions.

The only environment JWs really didn't like was sand but my e-MTB has been able to cut through sand anyway with some sideways slipping (the sand never stopped my ride). I could compare that with Maxxis Minion DHF/High Roller II: Those tyres didn't even notice the presence of sand but were extremely noisy on paved surfaces. Except of sand, JWs could always maintain traction, and the biggest win was their silence on paved roads combined with quite low rolling resistance.

Riding a smooth asphalt road was a real pleasure. Thanks to JWs, the only noise to be actually heard was the motor.

Now, let us assume Schwalbe has already created the best multiple purpose tyres: Johnny Watts. Why to replace them with something perhaps inferior?

Most multipurpose things are by definition not as good at each of those things as a single purpose thing. I agree that JWs seem ideal for the riding you just did. But your amount of dirt/mud riding is way way higher than mine. Like I said I'm not unhappy with their performance. I'm just curious for someone who is almost exclusively (based on miles ridden) riding on pavement, does the pavement rolling resistance and or traction get better with a more street oriented tire like the Super Moto-X? Maybe it's close enough to not be detectable, in which case I'll be sticking with the JWs.

 

[Alaskan]

Most multipurpose things are by definition not as good at each of those things as a single purpose thing. I agree that JWs seem ideal for the riding you just did. But your amount of dirt/mud riding is way way higher than mine. Like I said I'm not unhappy with their performance. I'm just curious for someone who is almost exclusively (based on miles ridden) riding on pavement, does the pavement rolling resistance and or traction get better with a more street oriented tire like the Super Moto-X? Maybe it's close enough to not be detectable, in which case I'll be sticking with the JWs.

The Johnny Watts show a rating of five on Rolling Resistance, Road Grip and Off Road Grip, Six on Protection and Durability
The Super Moto X show a rating of four on Rolling Resistance, Road Grip and 3.5 on Off Road Grip, Six on Protection and five on Durability

Based on Schwalbe's own metrics, the Johnny Watt is superior both on and off road, has lower rolling resistance, equal in protection and better on durability.

For an all purpose tire and even for road purpose or off road purpose, you call to stick to Johnny Watts is well considered.

 

[amayers]

The Johnny Watts show a rating of five on Rolling Resistance, Road Grip and Off Road Grip, Six on Protection and Durability
The Super Moto X show a rating of four on Rolling Resistance, Road Grip and 3.5 on Off Road Grip, Six on Protection and five on Durability

Based on Schwalbe's own metrics, the Johnny Watt is superior both on and off road, has lower rolling resistance, equal in protection and better on durability.

For an all purpose tire and even for road purpose or off road purpose, you call to stick to Johnny Watts is well considered.

Yes, the JW do appear slightly better on Schwalbe's website. However they are using such a course scale to rate the tires, and using a different scale for each tire. So comparison is hard.
I'm not sure where you are seeing these values on their site. JW's use a 0-10 scale, where the Super Moto-X use a 0-6, see these images from their site.

 

[onlineaddy]

I'm not sure where you are seeing these values on their site. JW's use a 0-10 scale, where the Super Moto-X use a 0-6, see these images from their site.

JW with 0-6 scale:

Johnny Watts | DD, RaceGuard | Black | 27.5x2.60 | Addix | 11654091

THE PERFECT CHOICE FOR SUV BIKES. Like no other, Johnny Watts unites smooth rolling on hard ground with longevity and puncture protection. Off-road instilling confidence, while on pavement rolling whisper-quiet.Versatile tread for a wide range of use fro…

www.schwalbetires.com

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Oh well, @amayers, let me give you an example for different e-bike and different tyres.
I used to ride my Vado on Specialized Electrak Armadillo 29 x 2.0" slick tyres. These offer excellent road grip (even at low temps and in wet conditions), and extremely low rolling resistance; they are very hard to puncture, too. However, riding into the forest meant you wanted to escape back on asphalt road instantly. My choice was to swap Electraks with Schwalbe Smart Sam 29 x 1.75". Smart Sams offer far higher rolling resistance (you just cannot get on the same speed with the same effort as you could on slick tyres) but they simply do off-road, while remain silent on paved roads.

I said Johnny Watts were all-rounders. It does not mean they sacrifice anything. Not. They are simply the best of both worlds.

 

[Deleted member 18083]

No rides today: I'm too busy filling out my Johnny W Fan Club application form.

 

[linklemming]

Yes, the JW do appear slightly better on Schwalbe's website. However they are using such a course scale to rate the tires, and using a different scale for each tire. So comparison is hard.
I'm not sure where you are seeing these values on their site. JW's use a 0-10 scale, where the Super Moto-X use a 0-6, see these images from their site.

I wont address actual wear but as far as absolute cornering traction on pavement/asphalt my JWs dont even compared to the Super-MotoX when REALLY leaned over. Its simple physics in that knobbies are never as good as slicks on the road due to tread squirm, no matter how good the design/compound (FWIW Armadillo tires are garbage for traction but good for alot of other things, I would never put armadillo and traction together in the same sentence and I ran armadillo tires for many years on road bikes)

When I first got my iZIP Moda 3(3rd ebike), in early 2019 with 27.5x2.4 Super-MotoX, most of riding was 70%offroad/30%road, not at all the tire for offroad but better than I thought and I probably did 20 rides on those tires. I really liked the lack of noise on the road and the amount of traction on the road was the best I have ever experienced, never found the limit of those tires and my impression at the time was 'wow', never leaned a bicycle over that much (this coming from someone who rode sport motorcycles for many years).

If I was riding 90% on pavement/asphalt, I would run the Super MotoX, no questions. Do the JWs consume 3Watts less in rolling resistance, who cares....its an EBIKE!!!!!

I have JWs as well, also run Smart Sams, Nobby Nics and Marathon Plus MTB

For EBIKE on pavement my choices would be (best to worst)
Super-MotoX
JW/Marathon Plus MTB (tie...its complicated)
Smart Sams
Nobby Nics (still very good)

Best advice in the end: Try whatever you can and form your own opinion

 

[Gionnirocket]

No rides today: I'm too busy filling out my Johnny W Fan Club application form.

View attachment 86929

Wait till you get to the final step... it's an oral exam!

 

[Deleted member 18083]

Wait till you get to the final step... it's an oral exam!

Quality control, especially puncture resistance, has been attended to.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Quality control, especially puncture resistance, has been attended to.
View attachment 86941

Good to see Schwalbe has qc representatives world wide.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

and I ran armadillo tires for many years on road bikes)

Oh yeah. You ran Electrak Armadillo 2.0 on road bikes.

 

[Alaskan]

Quality control, especially puncture resistance, has been attended to.
View attachment 86941

So they passed the kookaburra test? Looks like a kingfisher with an enduro bill.

 

[Alaskan]

I just took delivery on a pair of Johnny Watt 27.5 x 2.8 reflex tires for my Delite Mountain that originally came with the same size Knobby Nicks. They should work well with lower pressure and Tubolito MTB tubes.

I am going to pass on the installing them with the Tannus Armour in the interest of better rolling resistance and lower rotational weight. We shall see how they hold up. Here is a photo of the bike with 27.5 x 2.6s that I am going to switch over to the Trek Allant 9.9s.

Removing the full fenders as the larger tire will not fit. I am switching back to more easily mounted and dismounted SKS Race Blades.

 

[BlackHand]

I have some 27.5 x 2.35 JWs coming next week. I'll be replacing the 2.4 Super Moto-x on my Haibike which are showing wear after 3k miles of start and stop class 3 commuting.

The JWs + Aerothan tubes should save some rotational weight and I'm hoping for improved performance on wet pavement. The better off-road capabilities will be a given and more of a bonus for me than a necessity.

 

[Alaskan]

I have some 27.5 x 2.35 JWs coming next week. I'll be replacing the 2.4 Super Moto-x on my Haibike which are showing wear after 3k miles of start and stop class 3 commuting.

The JWs + Aerothan tubes should save some rotational weight and I'm hoping for improved performance on wet pavement. The better off-road capabilities will be a given and more of a bonus for me than a necessity.

You will also be stunned at how quiet they are. Just know that we tend to associate noise with speed. However, the reality is that more noise takes more energy to produce, energy that is not being used for propulsion. It is really quite counter-intuitive. Just think of the speed on same tires on new, super smooth pavement versus what they sound like and how much slower they are on coarse chips seal roadways.