Salsa e-Bikes - Bikepacking Options

[BlackHand]

Salsa does not know gravel electric bikes.
Pinarello has come with several nice mid-drive motor (TQ-HPR50) road, gravel, and city e-bikes just recently. Pinarello Nytro E9 road e-bike weighs 11.4 kg with a mid-drive motor and the battery.

View attachment 173149
Pinarello's gravel e-bike.

Who in their right mind would take a $13000 Pinarello bikepacking? No one in the US or UK since Pinarello doesn't sell that model here

But kudo's to the Italians for putting fender and rack mounts on their aero gravel racing bike. And I know if I were coming down a mtn road I would sure appreciate the aero advantage the fork flap gives me as it covers those 2 piston 160mm brakes!

 

[Stefan Mikes]

No one in the US or UK since Pinarello doesn't sell that model here

Salsa does not sell its electric bikes to Europe either so what's the point?

My points are:

• Salsa Tributary e-bikes are heavy. If you need spare batteries, it will be darn heavy
• Salsa Tributary SUS is an abomination

 

[Aushiker]

Salsa does not sell its electric bikes to Europe either so what's the point?

My points are:

• Salsa Tributary e-bikes are heavy. If you need spare batteries, it will be darn heavy
• Salsa Tributary SUS is an abomination

You forget to mention in your 'expert opinion".

Now we have that sorted can we leave this thread to those who are actually interested in the bikes?

 

[Aushiker]

Then just try buying a Salsa e-bike.

Nope.

 

[jabberwocky]

Pinarello's gravel e-bike.

I'm vaguely familiar with Pinarello as a brand but don't really know their bikes. I looked up the Nytro E7 Gravel (which is apparently their e-gravel bike that says they know e-gravel much more than Salsa). Thats... a road bike. Its a road bike with 40c tires. I mean, it has almost the same geometry as their Dogma F, which is their racing road bike that tour de france riders ride! It has a 74° head angle! I'm utterly mystified how any company would have the outright balls to call that a gravel bike.

 

[jabberwocky]

all it says is that gravel as a niche in europe is 5-7 years behind where it is in the United States

If that Pinarello defines european thinking on gravel, I'd say they are at least 15 years behind. Could argue that they haven't even started.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

I'd say that this argument about handlebars and the correct position and the apparently strict rules for what is and what is not allowed to be a gravel bike (even though this thread is about e bikepacking in Australia) is that and Jesus- this was argued to death in bike circles around ten years ago, maybe even longer, back when the options for getting off road started broadening dramatically. The lines between mountainbiking and road and every shade of grey inbetween started - thankfully - to blur. Or at least outside of Poland they did. That's why this is such a boring argument.

'Gravel' is basically a marketing term now and along with e bikes has been the great white hope of the bike industry. Keeping bike sales moving, they love promoting gravel. But the plain fact now in 2024 is you have a dozen different ways to get off road and have fun. Drop bars or flat, suspension -of all kinds- or rigid, wide tyres or narrow, 700c 29er 27.5 26" even 20", motor or leg power. It's up to how adventurous the rider is and what they want to do and where they ride.

We don't need rules to tell us what we can and cannot ride. Or indeed to be told what is and what isn't 'gravel'. I was riding 'gravel' back when I was 15 in the mid 80s. It was on a triple chainring, rigid steel 26" mtb but really there's not a lot of difference to today in exploring forestry trails and dirt tracks and having fun. Been riding and racing bikes all my life (OK not racing since my early twenties!) all kinds of bikes. I love a well built bike of any kind. Again - Horses for Courses.


'Bikepacking' through the Black Valley, MacGillycuddy Reeks, Ireland in 1985 or 86. Is this gravel?

Training in winter after school on the many forestry roads behind the farm in Cork, Ireland 1986 or 87 who needs helmets!

One of the Marins I still have; an old 90s Eldridge Grade frame -beautiful lightweight Tange double butted steel tubing. Back when they were still owned by Bob Buckley & designed by Joe Murray. Another Marin I took to Australia visiting my sister, again in the early 90s. Had a fun month exploring the trails in the 40 square miles of bush behind her house in Victoria (was that gravel riding?). Used to take her Irish setter up with me while she was at work. He ran so fast & used guide me home when I'd get lost! Great times. Left that Marin with her when I came home.

 

[jabberwocky]

'Gravel' is basically a marketing term now and along with e bikes has been the great white hope of the bike industry. Keeping bike sales moving, they love promoting gravel. But the plain fact now in 2024 is you have a dozen different ways to get off road and have fun. Drop bars or flat, suspension -of all kinds- or rigid, wide tyres or narrow, 700c 29er 27.5 26" even 20", motor or leg power. It's up to how adventurous the rider is and what they want to do and where they ride.

Theres a lot of marketing around the gravel label, but there always is around whatever is new and shiny in the bike industry. Bike companies find it easier to sell a new category to existing bike owners than any bike to someone who isn't into cycling yet. So new categories are very exciting. No, you don't need gravel shoes and gravel sunglasses, no matter what the bike company marketers tell you.

The takeaway IMO isn't that there is some hard definition for "gravel bike", its that people need to understand bike geometry. What various angles do, what different wheelbases mean, how BB height/drop affects pedaling in rough terrain and handling, etc. When a new bike is released that piques my interest, geometry is pretty much the first place I'm looking. Two bikes can be marketed as "gravel bikes" but have wildly different geometry (and will consequently excel in different ways and ride very differently).

Whats really interesting about the Tributary is that its a full power drop bar ebike (already an underrepresented category) with a big battery, a ton of mounting options for racks/bags/bottles and geometry thats on the off-road side of gravel. I'd guess its very capable on rough terrain up to moderately technical singletrack looking at that BB height, wheelbase and head angle. This is a style of bike that Salsa pioneered with the Fargo. A mashup of hardtail MTB, touring and cyclocross.

I personally think that adding ebike to this formula makes it better, because the main drawback of the Fargo/Cutthroat style bikes is they aren't as efficient as bikes that are more to the roadie side of the gravel spectrum (like the Warbird, if we are looking at Salsas lineup). So yeah, the Cutthroat is more versitile, can carry more stuff and is more capable in rough terrain, but anytime you're riding it and don't need that capability you're working harder for the same speed/distance. But adding a motor pretty much negates that negative, at least until the battery runs out.

Hoping some competition comes out. I'm a year or two out from thinking of upgrading the Revolt, but when I do something along these lines is what I'll be looking at. Would be nice if there were a few other options!

 

[mschwett]

….this was argued to death in bike circles around ten years ago, maybe even longer, back when the options for getting off road started broadening dramatically. …

yep. but a “little” knowledge is a dangerous thing

 

[Stefan Mikes]

All I really said was, like, "Salsa Cycles do not know e-bikes", which brought an avalanche of comments from several offended brand fan-boys ("The pot calling the kettle black", isn't it?)

• I do not deny the United States has the biggest network of gravel roads in the world
• I do not deny the United States has invented "gravel cycling" with Salsa Cycles playing a great role there

I only say Salsa Cycles -- as many other renowned bicycle brands -- has no idea what an e-bike should be like.
------------
As for my country: many regions of Poland are devoid of proper gravel roads; it is either asphalt or dirt. Where does one find any gravel roads in Poland? It is either the forest (where riding is almost as challenging as cross-country MTB) or distant areas of the country. For that reason we often need to cope with a far more technical terrain than premium gravel.

The pictures above are from one of distant areas of Poland, Sudovia, which is located on the Lithuanian and Belarussian borderland. Yes, they have good gravel roads there.

We need to look for anything different from asphalt in Mazovia, which results in riding in a difficult terrain here. Raining or snowing. Not like Kansas!

Are you riding in such a terrain, a pouring rain for 6 hours @mschwett?

It might involve riding long kilometres through apple orchards...

Now, fancy pulling a 22 kg Salsa e-bike up this embankment (that was what all of us had to do -- any guess why I took my Vado SL for that long group ride?)

Definitely not Kansas

Guys, if you think Salsa e-bike is a miracle, just go and buy one...

 

[jabberwocky]

All I really said was, like, "Salsa Cycles do not know e-bikes", which brought an avalanche of comments from several offended brand fan-boys ("The pot calling the kettle black", isn't it?)

• I do not deny the United States has the biggest network of gravel roads in the world
• I do not deny the United States has invented "gravel cycling" with Salsa Cycles playing a great role there

I only say Salsa Cycles -- as many other renowned bicycle brands -- has no idea what an e-bike should be like.

I don't think anyone in this thread is a fanboy aside from you. The only person in this thread who has tried to argue that any bike is perfect is....

Creo 2 is as ideal gravel e-bike as an e-bike can ever be.

Sorry, theres no such thing as a perfect bike, no matter what Specializeds massive marketing department says.

We are just trying to discuss an interesting new ebike. Interesting =/= perfect. Every post by you in this thread is basically you complaining that you don't like this type of bike. Fine, go buy what you want, there are a bunch of options. It would be really annoying if people were going into the Creo threads and saying that it sucks because it has a small motor and tiny battery and costs a million dollars and posting 50 times about that and derailing any actual discussion, wouldn't it? Maybe consider thats basically what you've been doing this whole thread and its really douchey?

Guys, if you think Salsa e-bike is a miracle, just go and buy one...

I might, someday. I'd like some more options in that general area to compare against. I've already said I have some reservations about the geometry. I have a friend who owns a shop that is a Salsa dealer, I'll probably drop him a line and tell him that if he brings one in in my size to let me know so I can test ride it. I'm fine with my Revolt (which I do really like despite its flaws) for a few more years.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I don't think anyone in this thread is a fanboy aside from you. The only person in this thread who has tried to argue that any bike is perfect is....

I beg to differ. I mentioned a full power gravel e-bike from Cannondale (which is a way more lightweighr than any e-Salsa), and I mentioned a Pinarello, one of the most lightweight mid-drive motor gravel e-bikes in the market. As a reply, I heard from owners of Salsa push-bikes with constant references to Cutthroad and Warbird (none of them being an e-bike). I was preached on how important Salsa has been for gravel and bikepacking bicycles. My point has been: "Regardless how good Salsa is on traditional bikes, the brand has to learn on e-bikes yet". While the opponents seem to think Salsa is infallible in its wisdom.

Ironically, the most active defenders of the Tributary have been guys from regions where the Tributary wouldn't be available at all.

I am not interested in a purchase of a Salsa e-bike at all. Moreover, I also believe buying a gravel e-bike (regardless of the brand) in the 25 kph/15.5 mph countries makes a very little sense (gravel cycling is for high speed and ultramarathons). That leaves the Tributary to the U.S., and I can't wait for any of the brand's fanboys to buy an electric Salsa and make a good use of it.

Now, e-bikepacking? If you are ready to load your already heavy e-bike with tons of baggage (and you need that to be able to be camping), consider whether you can find an electrical socket near to your tent and bonfire

 

[jabberwocky]

I beg to differ. I mentioned a full power gravel e-bike from Cannondale (which is a way more lightweighr than any e-Salsa), and I mentioned a Pinarello, one of the most lightweight mid-drive motor gravel e-bikes in the market. As a reply, I heard from owners of Salsa push-bikes with constant references to Cutthroad and Warbird (none of them being an e-bike). I was preached on how important Salsa has been for gravel and bikepacking bicycles. My point has been: "Regardless how good Salsa is on traditional bikes, the brand has to learn on e-bikes yet". While the opponents seem to think Salsa is infallible in its wisdom.

The Pinarello is a road bike. Sorry. I'm sure its very light though. You really need to learn a little about reading a bike geometry chart if you're offering that up as an alternative.

The Cannondale is probably one of the better options for a general purpose full power gravel ebike out there. Its not without its drawbacks. Tire clearance is fairly small for a modern gravel bike (42mm unless you size down to 650b wheels), and it (at least currently) uses an older Bosch controller that isn't compatible with their range extender. So your only option for having more than the stock 500whr battery is to carry extra spares (this was my main hangup with the Topstone as well as the Niner I linked earlier in the thread). And its not even that much lighter (the Topstone Neo 5 is ~40lbs, and the rigid Salsa is 46lbs). A few of those pounds will be the larger battery. ~1 will be the dropper post.

And again, going back to geometry (which you have completely ignored this entire thread, presumably because you don't know what they mean), they are very different. I'd recommend reading the link earlier, learning at least a little and then looking at the geometry for the Topstone vs the Tributary. You're comparing bikes with a 4° headtube angle difference, 72mm difference in wheelbase, 25mm difference in chainstay, 5mm difference in bb drop, and so on. Obviously designed for different things.

I don't think Salsa is "infallible in its wisdom" (lol). They are good at their niche though. The Tributary is a niche bike.

Ironically, the most active defenders of the Tributary have been guys from regions where the Tributary wouldn't be available at all.

I'm in the US, so its definitely available where I am.

I am not interested in a purchase of a Salsa e-bike at all.

No s*it, really?

Moreover, I also believe buying a gravel e-bike (regardless of the brand) in the 25 kph/15.5 mph countries makes a very little sense (gravel cycling is for high speed and ultramarathons).

I can't speak for the speed restrictions in other countries. Saying that gravel is for high speed and ultramarathons is stupid and elitist. Most people who ride gravel aren't doing ultra distance rides, nor are they riding at high speed.

That leaves the Tributary to the U.S., and I can't wait for any of the brand's fanboys to buy an electric Salsa and make a good use of it.

Looking forward to reviews from owners.

Now, e-bikepacking? If you are ready to load your already heavy e-bike with tons of baggage (and you need that to be able to be camping), consider whether you can find an electrical socket near to your tent and bonfire

As I posted in the other thread, my bucket list overnighters are in the 50-100 mile range. The Slate Springs loop is one I've ridden bits and pieces of on a MTB, and its very rugged. The Tributary would seem to be purpose built for those sorts of rides. You can sneer if you want, but I personally think its cool someone is making an ebike for people who want to do backcountry overnighters like these.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

The Pinarello is a road bike. Sorry. I'm sure its very light though. You really need to learn a little about reading a bike geometry chart if you're offering that up as an alternative.

The Cannondale is probably one of the better options for a general purpose full power gravel ebike out there. Its not without its drawbacks. Tire clearance is fairly small for a modern gravel bike (42mm unless you size down to 650b wheels), and it (at least currently) uses an older Bosch controller that isn't compatible with their range extender. So your only option for having more than the stock 500whr battery is to carry extra spares (this was my main hangup with the Topstone as well as the Niner I linked earlier in the thread). And its not even that much lighter (the Topstone Neo 5 is ~40lbs, and the rigid Salsa is 46lbs). A few of those pounds will be the larger battery. ~1 will be the dropper post.

And again, going back to geometry (which you have completely ignored this entire thread, presumably because you don't know what they mean), they are very different. I'd recommend reading the link earlier, learning at least a little and then looking at the geometry for the Topstone vs the Tributary. You're comparing bikes with a 4° headtube angle difference, 72mm difference in wheelbase, 25mm difference in chainstay, 5mm difference in bb drop, and so on. Obviously designed for different things.

I don't think Salsa is "infallible in its wisdom" (lol). They are good at their niche though. The Tributary is a niche bike.



I'm in the US, so its definitely available where I am.



No s*it, really?



I can't speak for the speed restrictions in other countries. Saying that gravel is for high speed and ultramarathons is stupid and elitist. Most people who ride gravel aren't doing ultra distance rides, nor are they riding at high speed.



Looking forward to reviews from owners.



As I posted in the other thread, my bucket list overnighters are in the 50-100 mile range. The Slate Springs loop is one I've ridden bits and pieces of on a MTB, and its very rugged. The Tributary would seem to be purpose built for those sorts of rides. You can sneer if you want, but I personally think its cool someone is making an ebike for people who want to do backcountry overnighters like these.

At this point I wouldn't bother, you're just feeding the troll. Sneering is exactly right. Stefan is fine on the Specialized threads, friendly, helpful & enthusiastic, but it's a real Jeykll & Hyde situ once it's a brand he hasn't heard of or say a new piece of tech or riding style outside his narrow experience. (Pinion MGU anybody?) He can't help but sneer, not realising it's displaying his ignorance and capped by that passive aggressive smile emoji.

I've put the Tributary on a short list. Not for bike packing, that's not something that right now I'm into- These days I go camping with the family- if this rain ever stops again (Spring? Had hail, sleet, snow, more rain, thunderstorms, flooding in the last 24 hours), but the geo, big battery and motor interest me because on rugged Dartmoor it would be nice to have a rugged e bike for long days off road. The Vado SL copes and it's a tough little bike that's proven itself & I'll keep it because as set up now it's a good jack of all trades though really it's best for roads even if most of the roads here are rough as f*ck backroads. But If I get a +one then my short list has the Tero (Prob the X), the Tributary, the UK brand Cairn's Brave model and maybe the Yamaha Wabash - all different, all bikes weighing over 20Kg, though the Yamaha only has a 500wh battery the others have 630+ I think and yes each has flaws and issues for my use & ease of buying here but all have something that attracts me. Haven't looked much at Giant or Cannondale but should do. Anyway it's a wish list for now, by the time I pull trigger I might have a new short list.

Salsa may never bother exporting to UK because of the motor legal spec issues, or maybe they will if this bike proves popular, who knows? and then I'd have to consider the ease of warranty as with all e bikes, but that's for another day, lets see what the rider reviews are like once people actually start riding this brand new model.

 

[jabberwocky]

I've put the Tributary on a short list. Not for bike packing, that's not something that right now I'm into- These days I go camping with the family- if this rain ever stops again (Spring? Had hail, sleet, snow, more rain, thunderstorms, flooding in the last 24 hours), but the geo, big battery and motor interest me because on rugged Dartmoor it would be nice to have a rugged e bike for long days off road. The Vado SL copes and it's a tough little bike that's proven itself & I'll keep it because as set up now it's a good jack of all trades though really it's best for roads even if most of the roads here are rough as f*ck backroads. But If I get a +one then my short list has the Tero (Prob the X), the Tributary, the UK brand Cairn's Brave model and maybe the Yamaha Wabash - all different, all bikes weighing over 20Kg, though the Yamaha only has a 500wh battery the others have 630+ I think and yes each has flaws and issues for my use & ease of buying here but all have something that attracts me. Haven't looked much at Giant or Cannondale but should do. Anyway it's a wish list for now, by the time I pull trigger I might have a new short list.

I'm in the same boat, honestly. If I were to end up with one to replace my Revolt, it would get used for overnighters like 1% of the time (though those are rides I really want to do). The rest would be various flavors and lengths of gravel loopage, like I do now on my Revolt. I like the full power motor, large battery and versatility on offer. While having the ability to do some of the more difficult overnighters on my list is really nice, still haven't decided if I really want geometry quite so far down off road to get there. Dunno. I started my cycling life mountainbiking and then quickly getting into downhill, so long and slack is where I'm generally happiest, so I might love it! Like a gravel version of my old Turner DHR.

I'm definitely not upgrading until 2025 at the earliest though. So plenty of time for more to come out. Also time for Salsa to release the carbon version, which a few early looks have mentioned is coming later in the year. I do love me some crabon.

That Cairn Brave dropbar looks pretty nice, btw. I'd never heard of that brand or bike. Geometry looks much nicer for rough gravel than the roadbike-with-ambition that so many brands are offering now, comes with a 630whr battery, looks like a lot of bag mounts. Not directly experienced with the E7000 motor, but my etmb has a steps E8000 and its been very reliable since I bought it in 2019.

Salsa may never bother exporting to UK because of the motor legal spec issues, or maybe they will if this bike proves popular, who knows? and then I'd have to consider the ease of warranty as with all e bikes, but that's for another day, lets see what the rider reviews are like once people actually start riding this brand new model.

Yeah, I mean, one advantage to using Bosch as a supplier for the entire electric drivetrain is they are massive and sell motors tuned for every location on earth where people buy bikes. So it probably wouldn't be difficult to create a UK Tributary if they saw a market. I just think that, as a relatively small company, they may just not be interested in trying to market and sell worldwide. But who knows.

Agreed, I'm looking forward to some reviews from owners. I did see a guy on reddit with one, so they are starting to make their way out there.

 

[Mr. Coffee]

Just my $0.02, and I know some other prominent voices here disagree.

On the average I think you end up with a better e-bike if you start with a great bicycle design and add a motor. There are many well-liked brands of e-bikes out there, especially at the very high end, where I've concluded they know little about bicycles and how they are actually ridden.

There are a lot of little subtle points on ergonomics, balance, stability, and handling that you don't get unless you know about bicycles.

So I'd bet a company like Salsa knows enough about bikes to go down the learning curve on e-bikes very rapidly.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

I'm actually fed up with the subject.

I'm looking forward to some reviews from owners.

So am I. Especially if the review comes from one of you.

The Pinarello is a road bike. Sorry.

NYTRO E GRAVEL | en | Pinarello Global

pinarello.com

I may assume Pinarello knows as much of gravel bikes as Salsa is expert on e-bikes.

(Pinion MGU anybody?)

It is 2024 and counting.

Leaving the thread.

 

[jabberwocky]

Just my $0.02, and I know some other prominent voices here disagree.

On the average I think you end up with a better e-bike if you start with a great bicycle design and add a motor. There are many well-liked brands of e-bikes out there, especially at the very high end, where I've concluded they know little about bicycles and how they are actually ridden.

There are a lot of little subtle points on ergonomics, balance, stability, and handling that you don't get unless you know about bicycles.

Having a motor on the bike hides a lot of crimes, geometry wise, especially where pedaling position is concerned. It also helps that ebikes have a built in maximum range via the battery, so you don't generally have to worry about people riding them for hours and hours.

Say what you want about Salsa, but they definitely know how to lay out a bike for long distance comfort. Thats, like, their whole thing.

So I'd bet a company like Salsa knows enough about bikes to go down the learning curve on e-bikes very rapidly.

No doubt. Especially when all they are doing is integrating a motor, battery and controller that someone else made, and probably having it built and assembled in a factory that already makes ebikes for other companies.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

I'm in the same boat, honestly. If I were to end up with one to replace my Revolt, it would get used for overnighters like 1% of the time (though those are rides I really want to do). The rest would be various flavors and lengths of gravel loopage, like I do now on my Revolt. I like the full power motor, large battery and versatility on offer. While having the ability to do some of the more difficult overnighters on my list is really nice, still haven't decided if I really want geometry quite so far down off road to get there. Dunno. I started my cycling life mountainbiking and then quickly getting into downhill, so long and slack is where I'm generally happiest, so I might love it! Like a gravel version of my old Turner DHR.

I'm definitely not upgrading until 2025 at the earliest though. So plenty of time for more to come out. Also time for Salsa to release the carbon version, which a few early looks have mentioned is coming later in the year. I do love me some crabon.

That Cairn Brave dropbar looks pretty nice, btw. I'd never heard of that brand or bike. Geometry looks much nicer for rough gravel than the roadbike-with-ambition that so many brands are offering now, comes with a 630whr battery, looks like a lot of bag mounts. Not directly experienced with the E7000 motor, but my etmb has a steps E8000 and its been very reliable since I bought it in 2019.



Yeah, I mean, one advantage to using Bosch as a supplier for the entire electric drivetrain is they are massive and sell motors tuned for every location on earth where people buy bikes. So it probably wouldn't be difficult to create a UK Tributary if they saw a market. I just think that, as a relatively small company, they may just not be interested in trying to market and sell worldwide. But who knows.

Agreed, I'm looking forward to some reviews from owners. I did see a guy on reddit with one, so they are starting to make their way out there.

Yeah it's going to be 2025 here as well with the added obstacle of my kids now being teenagers who are eagle eyed & disapproving when they see their father get too interested in shiny new bikes on the internet!

Cairn are tiny, make Salsa look like Trek in comparison, but The Rider Firm who makes them also make Hunt wheels? And if you're into your downhill bikes you might have heard of a small UK hardcore mtb company called Privateer? They only make 2 models the 141 (trail) and 161 (Enduro) though have recently released their first enduro e bike with EP8 motor based on the 161 - Same people as Cairn:

Privateer Bikes

No compromise Enduro race frame. Privateer Bikes 161 features progressive geometry to descend as fast as possible, whilst reducing fatigue with a low effort climbing position.

www.privateerbikes.com

Anyway Cairn release bikes in small batches & I see currently are only selling the BravE with flat bars though with an upgraded EP6 motor. Dunno why no drop bars this time round, might be supplies or the drop bar version didn't sell well. I'll check back in a few months & see if anything is on the horizon. Like all small companies I hope they can survive the current bike downturn and industry chaos.

 

[BlackHand]

Especially when all they are doing is integrating a motor, battery and controller that someone else made, and probably having it built and assembled in a factory that already makes ebikes for other companies.

Probably built in the same factory that has been making Surly ebikes for ~5 years. The Salsa brand is new to ebikes but QBP has been doing them for a while and is also the distributor for both Mahle and Bosch in the US, so it's not like Salsa is flying blind here.

Also it seems to me that Salsa has left a nice gap between the Confluence and Tributary that could be filled in later with a lighter, sportier model using a Mahle X20 or Bosch Sprint/SX drive unit.

I think the Tributary is really interesting, but it probably overlaps too much with my current ebike, a Haibike Trekking 9.0s. Better in nearly every way (except price), but that's what you would expect from a 5 year newer design. Also looking forward to the possible cf version later in the year. If they don't push it too far upmarket, it could really tempt me being more than just somewhat lighter and compliant than my current ride.