Salsa e-Bikes - Bikepacking Options

[Rás Cnoic]

Have you bought a Tributary yet?

Nope. Because they are not for sale in UK.

I did buy a Cairn Brave back at Christmas with similar motor spec, battery size etc. Though the version I bought is flat bar - originally back in '21 when Cairn released the Brave they did a drop bar and flat bar version. The drop bar version was discontinued unfortunately, so I got the flat bar & have since put on some swept back bars which suit it & me. I might do a rider's report in a new thread if I get the time- it's great fun and I would have definitely have been interested in the Tributary if it was easily available. Especially as I already own a Vaya and that ladies and gentlemen is the bike I would grab from the garage to save first in the event of a fire, despite it being 15 years old and not worth as much as the Vado or Brave.

Also I don't think there are enough e gravel bikes out there to have a consensus (light or heavy) and anyway bikes like the Tributary or Brave as full fat big battery bikes are more about adventure & exploring with many purposes not just riding on gravel. They are at a gravel & mountain bike cross over/sweet spot. Salsa, who released the first gravel bike back when everyone else was on cyclocross bikes with the Warbird and were one of the first to commercialise fat bikes and also with the Fargo (steel) & later Cutthroat (Carbon) created a whole new type of drop bar MTB for adventure racing particularly the Tour Divide, seem to know a thing or two about riding bicycles off road and are not interested in just following the fashionable crowd. And that is a very good thing for choice.

 

[jabberwocky]

Nope. Because they are not for sale in UK.

I did buy a Cairn Brave back at Christmas with similar motor spec, battery size etc. Though the version I bought is flat bar - originally back in '21 when Cairn released the Brave they did a drop bar and flat bar version. The drop bar version was discontinued unfortunately, so I got the flat bar & have since put on some swept back bars which suit it & me. I might do a rider's report in a new thread if I get the time- it's great fun and I would have definitely have been interested in the Tributary if it was easily available. Especially as I already own a Vaya and that ladies and gentlemen is the bike I would grab from the garage to save first in the event of a fire, despite it being 15 years old and not worth as much as the Vado or Brave.

Thats a really nice looking bike! Solid choice. Cairn doesn't seem to have much US presence unfortunately.

I've never known anyone who was unhappy with their Salsa. Never personally owned one but lots of friends who have had them. Heres a friend of mines Mamasita (and my Ibis) circa 2012 when we did a trip to Fruita. He set it up monster cross fixie style much of the time but put flat bars and gears on it for this trip.

Also I don't think there are enough e gravel bikes out there to have a consensus (light or heavy) and anyway bikes like the Tributary or Brave as full fat big battery bikes are more about adventure & exploring with many purposes not just riding on gravel. They are at a gravel & mountain bike cross over/sweet spot. Salsa, who released the first gravel bike back when everyone else was on cyclocross bikes with the Warbird and were one of the first to commercialise fat bikes and also with the Fargo (steel) & later Cutthroat (Carbon) created a whole new type of drop bar MTB for adventure racing particularly the Tour Divide, seem to know a thing or two about riding bicycles off road and are not interested in just following the fashionable crowd. And that is a very good thing for choice.

Yeah, its not like the companies with e-gravels have transitioned them to lightweight low power bikes ala all the road electrics. They are mainly just gone from the lineup. I don't have any special insight into the market, but it just seems to be a weird in-between that everyone is grappling with. E-road seems to mostly be going lightweight low power stealth look (Creo line, Domane, Synapse, Defy, etc), eMTBs have been going for more capability with bigger batteries and more suspension. Gravel is an in-between that companies just can't seem to decide what makes sense.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

That terrain in the pic looks great for either mtb or gravel and every shade in between!

Solid is a good word for the Brave. I think it's like an old Land Rover Defender or even better an old 2 series! Nothing flash just solid well built with Shimano Ep6 motor & 85nm with 630wh battery. Microshift 10 speed 38 x 11-48 so great out of box low gearing, 180 rotors, Tektro hydros 2.3 inch tyres and nice geo.

There are a lot of developments in the ebike industry right now what with financial issues etc so I think companies are holding fire and are more cautious because demand has decreased. Gravel bikes (analogue) like ebikes themselves have been a great white hope of the bike industry for a few years but now nothing is certain. By and large Gravel remains popular but most who race are obviously very fit so I think have little interest in ebikes. EMTBs seem to still be the big sellers in the ebike arena and after that, fitness, commuting and cargo bikes. All of which make sense to have a motor to help.

Yes Cairn are pretty tiny, pretty much just UK & some Europe sales I'd think so probably difficult to order from US - Like me trying to order a Tributary from Salsa! As a tiny company they also batch build so for instance they are sold out now of Braves and I guess time will tell if they make another batch this year, depends how well the sales went and in this market they are at least not caught out with warehouse full of unsold bikes with all their finance locked up, like some bigger companies that have gone to the wall. I hope they do make more. Longterm as I see that Shimano has recently brought out a Cues drop bar hydro brakes system which should be cheaper then say GRX or 105, so some day I might put drop bars on the Brave to try that.

 

[jabberwocky]

That terrain in the pic looks great for either mtb or gravel and every shade in between!

That photo was on the lunch loops near Grand Junction CO. Theres definitely lots of trail there that I wouldn't want to ride a gravel bike on, but I think there are a few loops that are doable. Like lots of trail in the area of CO, you have long stretches that are basically smooth dirt trail, with short sections of intense rock ledges that are difficult even on a real MTB. The steep technical downhills would be killer on drop bars, my friend (who grew up in the area) didn't even try to keep the drops on the Mamasita for that trip.

There are a lot of developments in the ebike industry right now what with financial issues etc so I think companies are holding fire and are more cautious because demand has decreased. Gravel bikes (analogue) like ebikes themselves have been a great white hope of the bike industry for a few years but now nothing is certain. By and large Gravel remains popular but most who race are obviously very fit so I think have little interest in ebikes. EMTBs seem to still be the big sellers in the ebike arena and after that, fitness, commuting and cargo bikes. All of which make sense to have a motor to help.

My observation is that lots of emtbs are being sold to enthusiasts who have figured out they are awesome for super long days, or to let you really hammer the downhills. Like, friends who would generally ride a 120-140mm travel lighter bike are buying e-enduros with heavier tires and more travel so they can go out and do repeat loops of the super tech downhill trail systems or super long days. Even people who are very weight-weenie aren't overly concerned with emtb weights though, its about that capability.

Drop bar ebikes seem to mainly be marketed towards people in the traditional roadie world, where weight and appearance matter a lot. I do see a fair number of domanes and creos on the shop road rides here in town.

I approach my gravel bike kinda in that emtb mindset. I specifically want a bike that is more capable than my non-electric gravel bike. The ebike system lets my ride further and faster, but it also lets me care a lot less about running gripper tires, carrying stuff and running a more relaxed riding position.

Yes Cairn are pretty tiny, pretty much just UK & some Europe sales I'd think so probably difficult to order from US - Like me trying to order a Tributary from Salsa! As a tiny company they also batch build so for instance they are sold out now of Braves and I guess time will tell if they make another batch this year, depends how well the sales went and in this market they are at least not caught out with warehouse full of unsold bikes with all their finance locked up, like some bigger companies that have gone to the wall. I hope they do make more. Longterm as I see that Shimano has recently brought out a Cues drop bar hydro brakes system which should be cheaper then say GRX or 105, so some day I might put drop bars on the Brave to try that.

Dunno how difficult they are to get in the UK, but I put an Ltwoo egr electronic set on my Revolt a while back and have been pretty pleased with it. Less than $400 for an electronic groupset with hydraulic brakes! Gotta brave aliexpress though.

 

[Rás Cnoic]

It's funny how mountain bikers discuss range of battery. I would talk about miles covered plus elevation but it's simpler when you do laps, they just count total elevation, and like you say weight isn't much of an issue, it's more about the power to get you up the hill to do another downhill run and how many runs you can do. So whereas I'm constantly rationing the battery using ECO for a lot of my ride, they are on trail or boost to get up that hill fast, instead of a shuttle or ski lift!

I'm thinking one change I might do with the Brave is narrower 50mm gravel tyres because I don't live in a place with such high mountains or desert to give me 100% off-road rides but more a mix of road and trail. I think I can squeeze more out of the battery with faster tyres. The Maxxis Rekons seem sluggish on tarmac so I'd like something faster even if a bit of a compromise off-road. Unlike an EMTB that has heavy tyres for bombing downhill I'm more about exploring. Anyway I've only used it on some shakedown rides to date. Planning some rides to check range properly and that will teach me more about the tyres. And yes that LTwoo group set is on my radar. Big fan of UK YouTuber Trace Velo who buys and tests Chinese components, mostly for road bikes. He's good at navigating the labyrinth of Ali Express!

 

[jabberwocky]

It's funny how mountain bikers discuss range of battery. I would talk about miles covered plus elevation but it's simpler when you do laps, they just count total elevation, and like you say weight isn't much of an issue, it's more about the power to get you up the hill to do another downhill run and how many runs you can do. So whereas I'm constantly rationing the battery using ECO for a lot of my ride, they are on trail or boost to get up that hill fast, instead of a shuttle or ski lift!

Hah, yeah. To be fair it does make sense. The shuttle runs I used to run in the Frederick Watershed drop almost 700 feet in less than a mile. If you're shuttling that and climbing the road (its a ~2 mile climb back to the top) you're going to eat battery in surprisingly few miles.

I'm thinking one change I might do with the Brave is narrower 50mm gravel tyres because I don't live in a place with such high mountains or desert to give me 100% off-road rides but more a mix of road and trail. I think I can squeeze more out of the battery with faster tyres. The Maxxis Rekons seem sluggish on tarmac so I'd like something faster even if a bit of a compromise off-road. Unlike an EMTB that has heavy tyres for bombing downhill I'm more about exploring. Anyway I've only used it on some shakedown rides to date. Planning some rides to check range properly and that will teach me more about the tyres. And yes that LTwoo group set is on my radar. Big fan of UK YouTuber Trace Velo who buys and tests Chinese components, mostly for road bikes. He's good at navigating the labyrinth of Ali Express!

For general gravel 50mm is where I've landed on the ebike. Gravelking SKs for me. I do run 38s on my non electric for efficiency.

 

[Stefan Mikes]

A single obstacle common to the UK is the gate to a private property that has to be crossed
No suspension on Cairn Brava: a very good design decision. Not a Tributary

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Not sure I understand. Do you mean the extra weight of suspension in having to carry a bike over a locked gate? Any gates I come across are parts of 'public rights of way' and are easily opened. I've never had to climb a gate. Thankfully! The Brave is 20kg wouldn't like to have to sling that over a five bar gate! But I'm only starting exploring with this bike.

I thought with the Tributary you get a choice of rigid fork or suspension no?

 

[Rás Cnoic]

This is the alloy Tributary with rigid fork. It's the one i'd have been interested in/could afford- with the sale price @ around $4k! the weight is 46lbs which for the Bosch Performance motor & 625wh battery is not bad.

Electric Gravel Bikes – Salsa Tributary GRX 600 – Salsa Cycles

The Salsa Tributary GRX 600 is one of the most capable electric gravel bikes out there, perfectly balancing stability, power, range, and cargo.

www.salsacycles.com

The carbon version also comes with rigid fork @$5,490 and a 42lbs weight.

 

[jabberwocky]

They sell it with either a fox 34 or a rigid fork. The suspension version is definitely aimed at people who want to do singletrack touring and not just gravel.

 

[BlackHand]

Pretty good deal if its a bike you're interested in!

I was keeping an eye on it, but resolved not to spend $5k-$7k on bikes. When the Wabash deals were available in the fall, I almost got one for <$2k, but realized I would prob spend at least another grand and probably $1500 getting it closer to what I want.

In the end, I found a misfit bike for $3k delivered - a Bulls Desert Falcon EVO that is nicely specced with GRX Di2 and FSA components along with the full power Bosch Speed drive unit. They pass it off as 'all road' which really just means its a road bike that can take wider tires.

Not very practical, and not really surprising that a 3 year old 41lb full power road ebike was hanging around unsold. But its a fun ride and surprisingly comfortable. Just not going to be very usable once the pavement ends on a lot of the forest service roads around here. I'll probably end up with a 2nd wheelset eventually so I can make it a bit more gravel friendly

 

[Stefan Mikes]

Not sure I understand. Do you mean the extra weight of suspension in having to carry a bike over a locked gate? Any gates I come across are parts of 'public rights of way' and are easily opened. I've never had to climb a gate.

I could see videos of people raising their bikes to the vertical position with the rear wheel on the ground to negotiate the gate too often

Certainly the Tributary with the suspension could prove its worth on some e-gravel races in my country.

The 'sprint" part of Great Lakes Gravel 2024 in Poland. The test ride proved the vibration on the cobbles required tightening many screws prior to the race! The e-Sprint winner was a young woman riding an Enduro e-MTB The only part of the race where a heavy bike was less beneficial was several km of deep sand: a wide tyre powerful e-MTB was the winner there though.

Sudovia Gravel e-Sprint required carrying your bike through a bog. I'd love riding my 17 kg Vado SL on that race!

 

[Rás Cnoic]

Yeah it's basically that roads are roads but off-road involves everything from rocks to bogs and you never know what's around the next corner be it a barred gate or a swamp! A wide choice of bikes and tyre widths and treads and inflation and of course suspension is needed depending on where you ride and how you want to go- fast racing or exploring and stopping for coffee! It's also evolving, gravel tyres in what 6 years have gone from - 35mm to 38mm to 42/44mm and now US gravel racers like Keegan Swenson on 50mm and in a recent race in Texas (Valley of Tears - great name!) Dylan Johnson using cross country MTB 2.1 inch tyres, (Schwalbe Thunder Burts, below).

It's become a case of whatever the terrain & weather needs, just use, which is sensible. For me once I'm up to speed on the ride and motor characteristics of the Brave I'll know which routes I'll go and explore in comparison to the routes I do on the Vado SL. Of course there is a cross over, but already I see the Brave is sluggish on tarmac whereas the Vado Sl is fast so I'll be using the Brave more off-road heading onto tracks that on the Vado Sl it was tricky or just too rough or steep. Make use of the monster 85nm of that Shimano motor.

I'm sure gravel bike brands aren't upset at having to build in wider and wider clearance, means more new improved bikes to sell every year!

 

[Rás Cnoic]

I was keeping an eye on it, but resolved not to spend $5k-$7k on bikes. When the Wabash deals were available in the fall, I almost got one for <$2k, but realized I would prob spend at least another grand and probably $1500 getting it closer to what I want.

In the end, I found a misfit bike for $3k delivered - a Bulls Desert Falcon EVO that is nicely specced with GRX Di2 and FSA components along with the full power Bosch Speed drive unit. They pass it off as 'all road' which really just means its a road bike that can take wider tires.

Not very practical, and not really surprising that a 3 year old 41lb full power road ebike was hanging around unsold. But its a fun ride and surprisingly comfortable. Just not going to be very usable once the pavement ends on a lot of the forest service roads around here. I'll probably end up with a 2nd wheelset eventually so I can make it a bit more gravel friendly View attachment 190466

Lovely looking bike, great components & looks tough! What size battery is that? If you need to go wider and the clearances are tight you could always explore a second set of 650b wheels which would allow for wider tyres. Now seems to be the time of bargains - that Yamaha sale never made it to the UK unfortunately, the Wabash was on my radar too after seeing Nick Sanders round the world trip, that was incredible, he's made of steel. Plus I like that Yamaha motors are very reliable & easily fixed. But there seem to be a lot of deals to be had if you look around. I got the Cairn Brave used but only 2 months old with 400 miles on clock. New they are £2390 or so and I got mine for £1000, less then half price! Couldn't resist it at that price and like you I've long resolved not to spend a fortune on more bikes! Owner had spent 2 months commuting on it but now was moving jobs to Scotland and already had a full power EMTB so didn't want to take this bike with him. Worked out well for both of us.