Salsa e-Bikes - Bikepacking Options

[jabberwocky]

Cairn are tiny, make Salsa look like Trek in comparison, but The Rider Firm who makes them also make Hunt wheels? And if you're into your downhill bikes you might have heard of a small UK hardcore mtb company called Privateer? They only make 2 models the 141 (trail) and 161 (Enduro) though have recently released their first enduro e bike with EP8 motor based on the 161 - Same people as Cairn:

I do know Hunt wheels! Not familiar with Privateer, but I'll admit I last rode lift-served trails in like 2013. Loved DH, rode for several years but after a few hospital trips I sorta drifted out of it.

Like all small companies I hope they can survive the current bike downturn and industry chaos.

Hope so. Always sucks when small quirky manufacturers go under. Its rough out there.

Probably built in the same factory that has been making Surly ebikes for ~5 years. The Salsa brand is new to ebikes but QBP has been doing them for a while and is also the distributor for both Mahle and Bosch in the US, so it's not like Salsa is flying blind here.

Also it seems to me that Salsa has left a nice gap between the Confluence and Tributary that could be filled in later with a lighter, sportier model using a Mahle X20 or Bosch Sprint/SX drive unit.

Yeah, for sure. They kinda targeted the extreme ends of the gravel market. I haven't paid much attention to the Confluence because its just not the type of bike I'm interested in, but its very similar to the identically-priced-and-specced Topstone Neo SL 2. Same idea as, like, the Creo 2 (but hub motor and half the price).

Theres definitely room in the middle for an electric Journeyer/Warbird (aka a general purpose gravel bike with more agile geometry). If they do I hope they keep the larger battery.

I think the Tributary is really interesting, but it probably overlaps too much with my current ebike, a Haibike Trekking 9.0s. Better in nearly every way (except price), but that's what you would expect from a 5 year newer design. Also looking forward to the possible cf version later in the year. If they don't push it too far upmarket, it could really tempt me being more than just somewhat lighter and compliant than my current ride.

If the carbon version comes out and has a powertube 750 I'll probably sell a kidney to buy it.

 

[jabberwocky]

Haven't seen much additional info, but one dude in Canada got a rigid fork version and posted a video. His has a Bosch screen off the front of the bars (which isn't shown on any of the Canada or US bikes on their website). Dunno if it was something he had them install or they will come with them. I'd personally want to ditch the screen.

The wrench in that is that a bit of digging says that Bosch doesn't output ant+ info at all, so that external cycling computers cant read ebike info. Which.... is really annoying and might be a dealbreaker for me, if its true. Both my Shimano and Yamaha ebikes do that, so I can forgo any screens and just read whatever info I want on the Garmin Edge I'm going to have on my bike anyway. I guess they want to force you to use their controllers? No experience with them, but I'm reasonably certain they aren't as good at being a cycling computer as the Garmin units. I ride lots of bikes so having a uniform computer that I can use across all of them is pretty much non-negotiable. I ditched the screen on my Revolt and put on one of Giants button-only MTB controllers instead (which works great) because I don't need a huge color screen eating up bar real estate just to tell me battery percentage when I can just add the ebike as an ant+ sensor and add an ebike battery field to my main screen.

Only other comment is that you can really see how much the frame geometry is "drop bar MTB" once you're seeing it from all angles. Welds also look really good close up. Hoods on his have some up angle to them (presumably the shop set them up like that, unlikely to ship with the bars attached). I hate internal cable routing, and now apparently the trend is to run them through the headtube as well (not specific to this bike, everyone does it, but I can still complain because I hate it and this is the internet which is for random complaining ).

Otherwise bike looks as expected. Its a drop bar MTB with super relaxed geometry and a ton of mounting options for all your stuff.

 

[Aushiker]

Thanks for sharing @jabberwocky. From what I understand:

[1] The Bosch computer maybe required to enable the motor. Not clear on this, but there are reports that removing the computer acts as an engine lock. This maybe be a feature that has to be enabled, but. Maybe someone can clarify.

[2] My research also indicates that Bosch does not support Ant+. Not surprising as they seem to be rather proprietary focused and an engine manufacturer, not a bicycle manufacturer so maybe lack the insights in the market. I intended to mount and use my Garmin Edge 1030 for reasons similar to yours.

 

[jabberwocky]

Thanks for sharing @jabberwocky. From what I understand:

[1] The Bosch computer maybe required to enable the motor. Not clear on this, but there are reports that removing the computer acts as an engine lock. This maybe be a feature that has to be enabled, but. Maybe someone can clarify.

When I saw the bike, I assumed the controller was the minimal button/led setup on the top of the headtube (which he still had and showed). I don't know why Salsa would bother with that, which is right where bikepackers would want to put a gas tank bag, and do the big out front computer. Dunno. Will probably have to wait and see some other reviews to see if anyone else has it.

The trend in the emtb world is definitely towards very minimal controllers. My Revolt E+ came with a giant screen mounted across the bars, so I ordered one of Giants emtb controllers which is just a couple switches and leds. I just have a field on my main screen for battery percentage and assist mode, which are the only two bits of info I care about from the ebike. The Garmin is much better for everything else than Giants huge screen anyway.

[2] My research also indicates that Bosch does not support Ant+. Not surprising as they seem to be rather proprietary focused and an engine manufacturer, not a bicycle manufacturer so maybe lack the insights in the market. I intended to mount and use my Garmin Edge 1030 for reasons similar to yours.

It doesn't make sense to me because the market for the built in computers is the OEMs, not end users. And if you want to sell ebikes to dedicated cyclists, you have to assume they will all be running cycling computers of some sort and will really want to sync info. Riding with the gravel groups, I'd say the number of people without some sort of computer (Garmin, Wahoo, Hammerhead, etc) is probably less than 1%.

Yamaha does Ant+. So does Shimano. Pretty sure Brose/Specialized does too. Bosch is the odd one out here. Some searching did pull a few posts from the last year where people relayed that Bosch reps claimed ant+ support was coming, so maybe in the future. Big negative for now though.

 

[Aushiker]

The trend in the emtb world is definitely towards very minimal controllers. My Revolt E+ came with a giant screen mounted across the bars, so I ordered one of Giants emtb controllers which is just a couple switches and leds. I just have a field on my main screen for battery percentage and assist mode, which are the only two bits of info I care about from the ebike. The Garmin is much better for everything else than Giants huge screen anyway.

There is a bit of a thread on the Intuvia at https://forums.electricbikereview.com/threads/bosch-intuvia-ebike-display-settings.22441/

Yamaha does Ant+. So does Shimano. Pretty sure Brose/Specialized does too. Bosch is the odd one out here. Some searching did pull a few posts from the last year where people relayed that Bosch reps claimed ant+ support was coming, so maybe in the future. Big negative for now though.

I am with you ... Bosch really needs to wake up to the marketplace. For example, the Garmin 1040 now has an eBike mode. Not being able to use it with Bosch equipped bike is a really a big negative.

 

[jabberwocky]

There is a bit of a thread on the Intuvia at https://forums.electricbikereview.com/threads/bosch-intuvia-ebike-display-settings.22441/

I am with you ... Bosch really needs to wake up to the marketplace. For example, the Garmin 1040 now has an eBike mode. Not being able to use it with Bosch equipped bike is a really a big negative.

My Edge 530 does have a specific screen for Shimano STEPs, which is what my emtb runs. Has additional info on power use, assist percentage in real time, etc. But also makes various bits of info available as generic sensor fields so I can add battery percentage to the main screen. The Revolt doesn't have a fancy screen for the Yamaha (that I know of, at least) but also makes info available as generic sensor fields.

For my emtb especially, the field is handy because the minimal screen the bike came with just displays battery percentage as 5 bars (which is so trendy and I hate so much). Actual percentage is muuuuch more useful when you're doing a big ride to know where your consumption is landing and judging when you need to back off to make sure the battery makes it to the end. Theres a huge difference between 38% left and 22% left but both display 2 bars on a 5 bar display.

I like that the Garmin lets you have different setups for different ride types, so I have an emtb setup which displays the shimano fields I want when I ride my Decoy, an e-gravel setup with fields from the Revolt, and then non-electric setups for when I ride non electric bikes that puts something else useful in that space.

And yeah, Bosch needs to get with the program. Even if its some aftermarket ant+ module you can plug in and tuck away somewhere.