Reention Dorado 48V 25Ah 29Ah&36V 30Ah (505L) Replacement Battery for eBikes Surface 604,NCM,Rize,Magnum,Aventon

[Jenny Mao]

I'm just wondering.
Does the battery's BMS balance the cells?

The BMS we choose is Super Power brand non-smart 13S 30Amp, no balance function. The Samsung cells voltage consistency is very good, so the balance function is not necessary.
All our ebike batteries use the Super Power BMS, basically no defective products.

 

[Slaphappygamer]

Cool. Even free shipping.

 

[Jenny Mao]

Yes, and no custom tax. It is DDP term (Delivery Duty Paid) . The shipping agent will ship the parcel to Canada and pay for the tax, with UPS delivery to door.

 

[PCeBiker]

The BMS we choose is Super Power brand non-smart 13S 30Amp, no balance function. The Samsung cells voltage consistency is very good, so the balance function is not necessary.
All our ebike batteries use the Super Power BMS, basically no defective products.

@Jenny Mao
I have another question.
I found this quote here on EBR,..

"Charging to 100% usually forces the BMS in most batteries to balance cells. Charging to 80% is fine and may improve battery life. Charging to 100% occasionally is a good idea though"


I was wondering if the BMS in my battery will "force the BMS to balance cells" ?

I am intending to keep my battery charged between 20% and 80%, and occasionally charge the battery to 100% to "balance the cells".

If charging the battery to 100% serves no purpose, then I may not charge it fully.

 

[Jenny Mao]

@Jenny Mao
I have another question.
I found this quote here on EBR,..

"Charging to 100% usually forces the BMS in most batteries to balance cells. Charging to 80% is fine and may improve battery life. Charging to 100% occasionally is a good idea though"


I was wondering if the BMS in my battery will "force the BMS to balance cells" ?

I am intending to keep my battery charged between 20% and 80%, and occasionally charge the battery to 100% to "balance the cells".

If charging the battery to 100% serves no purpose, then I may not charge it fully.

For BMS with balance function, the balance voltage is usualy set as 3.8V, corresponding about 80% capacity.
For the non-balance BMS, the BMS won't balance cells.

Charging to 100% won't shorten the battery lifetime.

The most important to care is :
Don't overdischage the battery
Don't store an empty battery
Don't charge below 0℃
0.2C or less charging current is good for battery lifetime, and that is why we suggest a 4amp charger for the 25Ah battery.

 

[PCeBiker]

Thanks Jenny
I will follow your recommendations and fully charge my battery.

I will charge to ~80% using a timer, then fully charge just before the ride.

Charging at 4 amps will be quick, and I will be able to keep an eye on everything while it is charging.

My controller allows me to set the low voltage cutoff point.



What do you suggest as a cut-off voltage?

I will have a second battery with me, so I don't mind if the battery cuts out early if there is any value in doing so.

It sounds like a low voltage is harder on the battery than full voltage?

 

[Jenny Mao]

I will charge to ~80% using a timer, then fully charge just before the ride.

It is okay if you can easy control to charge to 80%.

This is a Dorado 25Ah capacity testing , 24.5Ah tested, battery voltage is about 43.9V/44V when battery discharging 80%, 19.6Ah, with 20% left.
So you can set the controller cut off at about 44V.

The BMS itself cut off voltage is 35.75, cut off release votlage is about 39V.

Like most cell phones manul suggested, I believe using the lithium battery between 20%-80% is good for battery lifetime.

 

[PCeBiker]

OK Thanks Jenny

I will set my controller cut-off voltage to 41.5 volts (that is as high as I can set it).

That way the controller will cut out before the BMS if I do take the voltage down below ~44 volts.

I can always use my display to set the cutoff voltage lower in an emergency situation, to get the last bit of power out of the battery.


I better write down all my parameter settings and keep it on my ebike. There's a lot of them, and I'm sure that I will have lost or broken my smartphone when I really need it.

 

[Jenny Mao]

New plant, new office, and new testing machines!

 

[Jenny Mao]

Each of your ebike battery will be tested a cycle of charging and discharging to get the real capacity data before shipment.

 

[Bikester]

This is a Dorado 25Ah capacity testing , 24.5Ah tested

Hello Jenny!
I am interested in Aijiu energy batteries and I have a question for you:
You say that you can get 24,5Ah from 25Ah 48V battery. But on one other thread about your batteries, you have also said that you get average 24.182Ah x 48V = 1160Wh under condition of 10A discharging. There is of course some variance between batteries and not all are exactly the same capacity when measured. I am interested about what is normal range in true measured capacity in 48V 25Ah advertised batteries? What would be considered lowest measured Ah that you still consider "good to go"?

 

[Bitmugger]

Hello Jenny!
I am interested in Aijiu energy batteries and I have a question for you:
You say that you can get 24,5Ah from 25Ah 48V battery. But on one other thread about your batteries, you have also said that you get average 24.182Ah x 48V = 1160Wh under condition of 10A discharging. There is of course some variance between batteries and not all are exactly the same capacity when measured. I am interested about what is normal range in true measured capacity in 48V 25Ah advertised batteries? What would be considered lowest measured Ah that you still consider "good to go"?

Hi Bikester
I'd take any reply from Jenny over my reply, but I own one of Jenny's 25ah batteries, the first one made in fact, lol.

I can explain a couple things.
- The 24.5ah rating comes from the Samsung 50E cells, they are rated at 4900mah and thus 5 groups of them in the battery pack multiplied by 4900mah = 24.5ah or about 1176wh
- The Samsung 50E cells are rated to be "in spec" if they are producing 4753mah and thus 5 groups on them makes about 1140wh if they are all just at the minimum spec for brand new cells.
- In my real world tests with my own watt meter I achieved 1182wh real world which is OVER the expected value. In the 2nd year of ownership I got 1171wh which is amazing. My tests were very low discharge (like 1amp), Jenny's 10amp test is more practical but my test setup isn't as nice as hers, lolol.

Link to my original 25ah review and testing:

Just received a new Dorado 25ah battery

It has been mentioned in a few threads here but Reention is producing a new case for their Dorado series of batteries that allow 21700 cells to be used instead of 18650. This increases the max capacity of that battery to 25ah using Samsung 50E cells (@48v). The battery is available in 36v, 48v...

electricbikereview.com

 

[tomjasz]

Hello Jenny!
I am interested in Aijiu energy batteries and I have a question for you:
You say that you can get 24,5Ah from 25Ah 48V battery. But on one other thread about your batteries, you have also said that you get average 24.182Ah x 48V = 1160Wh under condition of 10A discharging. There is of course some variance between batteries and not all are exactly the same capacity when measured. I am interested about what is normal range in true measured capacity in 48V 25Ah advertised batteries? What would be considered lowest measured Ah that you still consider "good to go"?

hopefully you emailed her. this is crazy busy season.

 

[Bikester]

@Bitmugger thank you for your answer.

Actually, I forgot to mention that I already got myself both 48V 25Ah and 52V 20Ah batteries from Jenny/Aijiu. I am happy about how they are performing, and I was just genuinely curious to hear what is the acceptable true measured Ah range of these batteries.

So, @tomjasz I am not in a hurry to get an answer from Jenny. I can wait as I am not in the middle of buying new battery at the moment.

According to test reports my 48V battery has 23.81 Ah, and 52V has 19.12 Ah (if I read it correctly, as the last number written was not wery clear). Not as much as @Bitmugger got but ok. Actually that is quite near to that "in spec" value of 4753mah. If that is the minimum requirement for Samsung 50E, then my battery is quite close to meet that.

One thing I could have hoped to be different was, that I would have wanted bigger BMS. Even just 40Amp instead of 30. I am not sure, but if someone can confirm: Is there room in the case to even fit bigger BMS than 30A? If there is, then I suggest to make it possible to choose between different rated BMS versions with these batteries.

 

[Bitmugger]

@Bitmugger thank you for your answer.

Actually, I forgot to mention that I already got myself both 48V 25Ah and 52V 20Ah batteries from Jenny/Aijiu. I am happy about how they are performing, and I was just genuinely curious to hear what is the acceptable true measured Ah range of these batteries.

So, @tomjasz I am not in a hurry to get an answer from Jenny. I can wait as I am not in the middle of buying new battery at the moment.

According to test reports my 48V battery has 23.81 Ah, and 52V has 19.12 Ah (if I read it correctly, as the last number written was not wery clear). Not as much as @Bitmugger got but ok. Actually that is quite near to that "in spec" value of 4753mah. If that is the minimum requirement for Samsung 50E, then my battery is quite close to meet that.

One thing I could have hoped to be different was, that I would have wanted bigger BMS. Even just 40Amp instead of 30. I am not sure, but if someone can confirm: Is there room in the case to even fit bigger BMS than 30A? If there is, then I suggest to make it possible to choose between different rated BMS versions with these batteries.

A 30amp bms will handle a 1500watt motor, you sure you need more than that?

For capacity we are comparing real-world conditions of a battery built from 60+ cells and a BMS that will cut you off below certain conditions versus a spec sheet for a single 50E cell so some variation and losses should be expected. I haven't measure the real-world watt-hours on the 52v yet but I just need to remake a cable and I can test mine soon

 

[Bikester]

A 30amp bms will handle a 1500watt motor, you sure you need more than that?

For capacity we are comparing real-world conditions of a battery built from 60+ cells and a BMS that will cut you off below certain conditions versus a spec sheet for a single 50E cell so some variation and losses should be expected. I haven't measure the real-world watt-hours on the 52v yet but I just need to remake a cable and I can test mine soon

Hmm.. Do I need, or do I want one

In a real life 30A BMS can handle for example Bafang M620 with 1000w continuous and 1500w peak power, even when that BMS is only good for 1440w continuous power when used with 48V battery (48V*30A=1440W). But is it sufficient for that use? Generally speaking among eMTB builders, BMS should preferably be sized 2x the continuous power to allow for prolonged use of that peak power also. So ideal BMS for 1000/1500w M620 would already be 40A BMS.

Now, I have Archon X1 / Innotrace controller in one of my M620 with mild 1700w setting. In real life I COULD use my new battery that has 30A BMS if I don't use that power exessively. Of course driving that 30A BMS on the limit and regularly using it with 30-50A bursts would not be good for it, and would shorten the life of that BMS. Therefore I do not use that motor with batteries from Aijiu Energy. (I have special battery for that.) But I would surely have the need for bigger BMS already with my stock M620 and even bigger need for my 1700w motor that has even bigger peak power.

I have learned that almost always with stock Bafang motor equipped bikes, the battery and wiring to motor is restricting the power. I know someone that has stock M620 and has changed battery BMS to huge 80Amp (no actual need for that much), and has also changed the wiring. Only by removing power restrictions from battery and wiring, that bike feels a lot more powerful. And that motor is stock and has stock 30A BMS, so motor doesn't get more than what the controller is asking.

So, yes again to the need for bigger BMS. 80A BMS is an overkill, but even that 40A would be one step to right direction.

 

[Jenny Mao]

@Bitmugger thank you for your answer.

Actually, I forgot to mention that I already got myself both 48V 25Ah and 52V 20Ah batteries from Jenny/Aijiu. I am happy about how they are performing, and I was just genuinely curious to hear what is the acceptable true measured Ah range of these batteries.

So, @tomjasz I am not in a hurry to get an answer from Jenny. I can wait as I am not in the middle of buying new battery at the moment.

According to test reports my 48V battery has 23.81 Ah, and 52V has 19.12 Ah (if I read it correctly, as the last number written was not wery clear). Not as much as @Bitmugger got but ok. Actually that is quite near to that "in spec" value of 4753mah. If that is the minimum requirement for Samsung 50E, then my battery is quite close to meet that.

One thing I could have hoped to be different was, that I would have wanted bigger BMS. Even just 40Amp instead of 30. I am not sure, but if someone can confirm: Is there room in the case to even fit bigger BMS than 30A? If there is, then I suggest to make it possible to choose between different rated BMS versions with these batteries.

Thanks for your support! According to a lot real testing experience, the qualified standard capacity is set as mininum 95% of 25Ah, that is 23.75Ah. But the testing result will the influenced by many factors like the environment temperature, the discharging current, the testing machine deviation.

 

[Jenny Mao]

One thing I could have hoped to be different was, that I would have wanted bigger BMS. Even just 40Amp instead of 30. I am not sure, but if someone can confirm: Is there room in the case to even fit bigger BMS than 30A? If there is, then I suggest to make it possible to choose between different rated BMS versions with these batteries.

13S or 14S 30A BMS is max regular model BMS we can find to make it fit in the Dorado 21700 case, where there is only a very slim but long room for BMS.
So 40A BMS might be possible with customized suppler slim long BMS, but customized BMS MOQ200pcs.

In out solutions, usually BMS is sized at least 1.5x of continuous discharging current, so 30A is good for 1000W rated, 1500W peak motor, 40A might be better. But 50A is max one suggested for Dorado 48V 25Ah, 13s5p Samsung 50E, with max discharging current is 50A. So 80A BMS won't function to protect the battery when it is over-current discharged.

 

[tomjasz]

BMS MOQ200pcs.

For the uninitiated MOQ is Minimum Order Quantity.

 

[ovt]

Can someone explain to me why the Stromer ebike even if the battery is half consumed can still reach the maximum speed and other ebikes such as the NCM for example, after the battery starts to consume both the maximum speed and the power decrease? What is so special to the Stromer controller? For example on my ebike when the battery is full, I reach 38-40kph, and when it is half consumed I can only reach 35-37kph with the 48v 21Ah battery.