Re-greasing the Ultra motor...is it time?

[Deacon Blues]

When I said my Hydra was running fine, I spoke too soon. I took the bike for a short ride around the neighbourhood today and the motor is randomly cutting out. The display also turns off.
The bike will run fine, then the power shuts off and the display goes dead. When I power the bike back up everything works for a couple of minutes, then shuts down again.
Very strange.
Bikester, I have two Ultra motors.

 

[Bikester]

When I said my Hydra was running fine, I spoke too soon. I took the bike for a short ride around the neighbourhood today and the motor is randomly cutting out. The display also turns off.
The bike will run fine, then the power shuts off and the display goes dead. When I power the bike back up everything works for a couple of minutes, then shuts down again.
Very strange.
Bikester, I have two Ultra motors.

Ok, didn't know you had 2.

Is your bike working ok when you are standstill, lift rear wheel up and give it a throttle? Especially if it is cutting out only when you go over bumps, then you propably have bad connection at your battery terminal or power connection at the motor. I have had serious cut offs when my battery was a bit loose, and connection at battery terminal was not tight enough.

When riding your bike, check your voltage or battery % reading. If it is fluctuating when going over bumps (when not cutting off completely), it would be possible telltale from a bad connection. You can also wiggle the battery and look if it shows similar signs.

 

[Deacon Blues]

I found out why the UC Pro wasn't powering up. When I had the motor out I cleaned up some wiring, including shortening the black/red thick wire coming from the battery to the motor. The connectors I used were crap (or the guy doing the wiring was crap ). Going to do it again using Anderson connectors.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Sounds like another case of a loose nut behind the handlebars

 

[Fast n' Furious]

I found out why the UC Pro wasn't powering up. When I had the motor out I cleaned up some wiring, including shortening the black/red thick wire coming from the battery to the motor. The connectors I used were crap (or the guy doing the wiring was crap ). Going to do it again using Anderson connectors.

Sweet. You'll be rolling in no time.
Grin in Technologies in BC Canada is a good source for quality connectors. They have 45amp Andersons
I find most often it's the crimper that's crap.
Can't speak to Grin's ratcheting Anderson crimper, but they don't sell junk.

Fn'F

 

[TPEHAK]

According to the pictures you posted your motor has the Innotrace X1 controller. Then the hall sensor calibration can be done through the bypassed X1Tool (the one with unlocked advanced settings).

And that rotor gear goes with the hall sensor magnet or that magnet is attached to the rotor shaft and is not part of the rotor gear?

Placment and istallation of Hall sensor

Hi ! I’m rebulding a G510 ultramax with a phaserunner, the controller that i’m replacing had a ic hall. That meens i have to install hallsensors, and by my calculation with 8 magnets/4polepair and 12 windings it would be correct at 30 degree ? How i connect the hallsensors together and to...

endless-sphere.com

If that magnet is attached to the rotor shaft and you did not move the magnet (I do not know if it is possible to move it at all) then calibration is not required.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

Ok, didn't know you had 2.

Is your bike working ok when you are standstill, lift rear wheel up and give it a throttle? Especially if it is cutting out only when you go over bumps, then you propably have bad connection at your battery terminal or power connection at the motor. I have had serious cut offs when my battery was a bit loose, and connection at battery terminal was not tight enough.

When riding your bike, check your voltage or battery % reading. If it is fluctuating when going over bumps (when not cutting off completely), it would be possible telltale from a bad connection. You can also wiggle the battery and look if it shows similar signs.

" I have had serious cut offs when my battery was a bit loose, and connection at battery terminal was not tight enough."
Thanks for reliable anecdotal confirmation.
The only time I've had a cut-out.
I drove off a curb at a good clip to 'get some air' - pretty standard procedure, typical landing, ordinary in every way. Power went dead and stuttered, like something was being reset, then came back reduced.
I later found the battery was not locked. Now 'battery locked' check is part of my start checklist.

 

[Bikester]

And that rotor gear goes with the hall sensor magnet or that magnet is attached to the rotor shaft and is not part of the rotor gear?

Magnet part can be separated from shaft. It has threads and is just screwd in. But part is made of aluminium around the magnet, and can be easily broken especially if tightened too much. (I broke one..). In some cases it has been hot glued, so it might need heating before it can be separated. Though, I have not needed the heat gun - ever.

If that magnet is attached to the rotor shaft and you did not move the magnet (I do not know if it is possible to move it at all) then calibration is not required.

If you put the same rotor back without changing the position of magnet, then calibration should not be required. But if you put in a new rotor, then I would say there is only 25% possibility that it will run without calibration.

 

[Bikester]

Thanks for reliable anecdotal confirmation.
The only time I've had a cut-out.
I drove off a curb at a good clip to 'get some air' - pretty standard procedure, typical landing, ordinary in every way. Power went dead and stuttered, like something was being reset, then came back reduced.
I later found the battery was not locked. Now 'battery locked' check is part of my start checklist.

Just to expand this topic: Motor might also have some cut out like behaviour if there is shift sensor installed and riding in rough terrain. I tossed my sensor few years ago and will never have one again. Just FYI for everyone not to think their motor is cutting out because bad connection in this case. Voltage fluctuation is easiest way to determine whether it is caused by bad connection or "normal" cut out caused by shift sensor.

Locking battery and double checking is indeed recommended

 

[Gionnirocket]

Locking battery and double checking is indeed recommended

For slow and notorious

 

[Fast n' Furious]

For slow and notorious

You're half right.
Took a few weeks off to upgrade my peeps, so "I'm tense and nervous and I, can't relax ..." and on with poking down the road. Aired Gumbo's brogans up, 20psi - Goin' hard. Much smoother over 40mph.
The DPC 18 only registers 1500watts redlined when I'm burning 2600watts. lol
Man, you really have to experience this !!!

Ask anyone who owns one !!!

I remember this song as a kid and still love it .
I have a photo: me w/ a holster, toy gun, cowboy hat and boots - even the bandana. Sitting on a hobby-horse.
Not that I remember this six-gun phase in the least and the $h1tty part is, first damn horse I encountered bit me, I'm 100% serious. I was instructed "hold the apple chunk flat in your hand" - a horse sashimi presentation - "be fearless son. Don't flinch".
What BS. That horse'd chomped human flesh before, craved blood and developed a taste for tender kiddie fingers w/ bloody apple chunks.
So I pretty much hated horses for many years and still think they're smelly beasts, but did become a reasonably competent rider (third wife forced me) and (although they've tried to kill me) never been thrown.

Dang I love Bing crooning "I'm a cowboy, who never saw a cow...".
Amazing, nothings changed since 1936.

Fn'F

 

[TPEHAK]

I can read the consuming wattage through my phone application connected to smart BMS installed on the battery pack with Bluetooth.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

Just to expand this topic: Motor might also have some cut out like behaviour if there is shift sensor installed and riding in rough terrain. I tossed my sensor few years ago and will never have one again. Just FYI for everyone not to think their motor is cutting out because bad connection in this case. Voltage fluctuation is easiest way to determine whether it is caused by bad connection or "normal" cut out caused by shift sensor.

Locking battery and double checking is indeed recommended

Wow that's fast.
I and Da Ridiculous ebike got dropped off on top of Makakilo Heights Rd.
Rode down I reached 43mph . Wind resistance would not let me go faster and I couldn't pedal faster than I was going.

50t ring x 11cog. modified domino throttle and settings. 2300watt X1. 26 x 4 tires @22psi
Jones Loop bars have a forward, low profile grip position.
Running 'enhanced' (off-road) Sports Modes on City Streets is not legal nor recommended, but MT7e's w/ MDR P's are.
Never noticed max speed until home scrolling through settings. It was previously 47mph.
Keeping it real: Speed sensor is still programmed for 26" tires. Gumbo's 26 x 4" tire's circumference is larger than a 29 x 2.5". When I get outta shakedown mode have to reprogram that.
Figure up to 20% error, around 45mph actual.

I appreciate Deacon Blues photos because he has a similar model. His 'bracket clearance blues' will be mine soon enough.
I wish there was more of a consensus on what grease and I still don't really know 'How often?'
Good current sources for gears would be good info - if you've done this a few times all the more so.

If your bike has original Bafang controller and you take motor apart too much, then you will have to calibrate motor with C961 display before riding your bike. You will notice if you need to do that, as motor stutters badly if it has lost the calibration (will run slowly but with more throttle it refuces to run and almost jumps on the table).

BUT I believe you have wattwagons/Innotrace controller? If that is the case, then you can NOT calibrate motor with that display and you have to do it manually, which is pain in the ass operation (doable but takes many trial and errors as I said before).

I have needed to do the calibration only if I have replaced the rotor (when installing the same rotor back I have not needed to do the calibration. I explained the reason to that before.), but some people have said that only by removing the controller motor has needed the calibration process. If you still haven't taken that rotor out and are not prepared to do calibration manually, then I suggest you don't. First try without replacing rotor. Grease it and install your other new gears and check if motor will run quietly or not, or if it refuces to run smoothly.

And yes, that rotor looks bad. If for some reason you manage to run your regreased motor quietly without replacing that rotor, it will eat up the third gear faster as that rotor has more "free play"

Edit: Rotor can be taken out and put back when motor is installed on the bike. I fixed my rotor that had that metal part sticking out that way, and as I put the same rotor back it did not need recalibration. If you replace rotor, manual calibration has to be done when motor is not installed on the bike.

Do you have any cites for this information?

If your bike has original Bafang controller and you take motor apart too much, then you will have to calibrate motor with C961 display before riding your bike. You will notice if you need to do that, as motor stutters badly if it has lost the calibration (will run slowly but with more throttle it refuces to run and almost jumps on the table).

BUT I believe you have wattwagons/Innotrace controller? If that is the case, then you can NOT calibrate motor with that display and you have to do it manually, which is pain in the ass operation (doable but takes many trial and errors as I said before).

I have needed to do the calibration only if I have replaced the rotor (when installing the same rotor back I have not needed to do the calibration. I explained the reason to that before.), but some people have said that only by removing the controller motor has needed the calibration process. If you still haven't taken that rotor out and are not prepared to do calibration manually, then I suggest you don't. First try without replacing rotor. Grease it and install your other new gears and check if motor will run quietly or not, or if it refuces to run smoothly.

And yes, that rotor looks bad. If for some reason you manage to run your regreased motor quietly without replacing that rotor, it will eat up the third gear faster as that rotor has more "free play"

Edit: Rotor can be taken out and put back when motor is installed on the bike. I fixed my rotor that had that metal part sticking out that way, and as I put the same rotor back it did not need recalibration. If you replace rotor, manual calibration has to be done when motor is not installed on the bike.

Doesn't the DP 18 display have a 'calibrate' feature?
Have you tried?
Have you used the required dongle and a PC to access the innotrace tuning software?
Do you own a n X1 powered machine?
Personal experience please. REAL X1 Owners want to know.
Tell us !!!!

 

[Fast n' Furious]

Wow that's fast.
I and Da Ridiculous ebike got dropped off on top of Makakilo Heights Rd.
Rode down I reached 43mph . Wind resistance would not let me go faster and I couldn't pedal faster than I was going.

Lose some bulk, but no help for vast wind resistance.
Sorry you couldn't 'go faster'. Try some logical improvements - if that's the goal.
Unaccountable lead in the bootie may cause fail. Sorry.
'Energy x mass + [XXXL sized rider] squared' could be different.
E=m[a]C2 !!!

 

[Fast n' Furious]

I have two 52v Bafang M620 Canbus. I swap motor at 3-5K miles.
Once a year I ride that many miles.
I use red mobil grease. Keeps the gears quite almost stealth.

3 - 5k miles? Whoaaaa !!! I knew you were a voice of experience (Crash Dummy's often recognize each other) !!!
By 'swap', do you mean buy a new motor or 'change out and overhaul'?
You run the motor for 3 -5k miles before initial greasing ?
What would you say's been the most miles you've have on a motor?
Have you replaced any gears or seen rotor-gears gone South, like Deacons?
Really wish you'd document your work Rome.
No more X1. I can't have another motor like this ready to go. The controller's a rare item.
-
Comments on other stuff.
X1 in street legal Eco modes is little more stressful than stock Bafang programing on the M620.
It being all I need (the display ratting me out aside), I'm rarely past Eco 3.
X1 Sports modes (off-road) are best used on the fly, not stop and start stuff - as afterburners.
It's like having Nitrous and in SP I'm programmed wide open throttle; ala off-road motorcycle w/ bicycle gears.
-
If a grease fitting was the answer, a thick oil bath would be so much better.
The idea of pressure feeding the gear housing with grease assumes there's an outlet for the pressurized grease.
If that outlet isn't into the rotor area, why not use 80- 90weight gear oil and 'splash lube' principle?
-
Calibration was offered by innotrace for 39 euros.
Wish someone with experience would speak up. Probably all too busy riding to chime in.
EU Crowd, w/ 3000watt Innotrace controllers know the answer.

Fn'F

 

[Deacon Blues]

I agree-the X1 is overkill (for me). Going into sport mode is like hitting the hyperdrive button. It's fun once in the while, but for the most part I'm happy riding in eco levels 1,2, & 3.
If I eventually have to replace my UC Pro's X1 motor it will probably be with a stock motor, since no one seems to know how to calibrate the motor after a rotor gear swap.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

X1's problem is replacing main gear requires calibrating motor. That display is useless.
Innotrace used to do it for $39. People have upgraded to X1 controllers and there was no problem.
You own a Luna, no? I see they sold an "X1" Luna BEEST tool. 'Tool' is available from PRC here (for $130)

 

[Deacon Blues]

I went for a 35km ride today and the motor is definitely quieter.
Archer wireless shifter works great.....I've just got to remember to turn the damn thing on.

 

[Fast n' Furious]

I went for a 35km ride today and the motor is definitely quieter.
Archer wireless shifter works great.....I've just got to remember to turn the damn thing on.

And the on button's a bear. Super hassle w/ gloves on.
You see most of the info on setting up and using the hacked USB tool is removed?
Do you have it?

 

[Deacon Blues]

And the on button's a bear. Super hassle w/ gloves on.
You see most of the info on setting up and using the hacked USB tool is removed?
Do you have it?

I don't know what this hacked USB tool is.