Re-greasing the Ultra motor...is it time?

For the bikes that I work mostly on there is not much factory grease on the main gear and stepdown gear. That overstresses the other side making the needle bearings fail inside the nylon gear. Now that I know this I am packing the main and stepdown before a bike meets its new owner. That is without over packing.
 

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Pushkar says clean and grease it and put it back together. Since the bike is almost two years old I didn't ask him to send me a set of replacement gears for free, and he didn't offer.
What annoys me is it's obvious that this motor was installed on the bike with very little grease. I plan on taking my Hydra's motor apart to re-grease the gears.

Taking the motor out and apart isn't difficult, but if I can help it I'd rather not have to do it until it's time to re-grease the gears again in a year, or two, or three.
Yes, I hear you. In my initial post about greasing my motor, I commented how there was a paltry amount of grease in the motor, certainly an insufficient amount to do the correct job in my opinion. Not a difficult job, but still annoying. I have new Ultra Motor on my wife's Frey Savannah. I'll probably open it up next month.

Looking forward to hearing your comments on the noise level after greasing and running 100 miles.
 
This is one of those same motors that was run hard and lugged by a big guy in the mountains for two years. It did not have added grease and failed.
Next is how I get the Molly-Graph in, by placing it on the rim of the cover and pressing the cover in. I just did one moments ago; the service with new bar tape took 1/2 an hour.
 

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What's your milage?


At what interval?

Not looking forward to this though I've done it on my BBS02B several times without issue.
I still have near a full tube of Mobil SHC 100

Mobilith SHC 100 is an antiwear and extreme pressure grease primarily recommended for higher speed applications such as electric motors, where reduced friction, low wear and long service life are required. It is an NLGI 2 Grade / ISO VG 100 grease with a synthetic base fluid. Its operating temperature range is -40º C* to 150º C.

It may not have the same quieting effect of cornhead
Add a lekkie cover plate with a grease zerk. Bobs me uncle
 
Gears should be in my hot little hands in the next few days. I'm looking forward to installing the new gears and re-greasing the motor. I miss riding my UC Pro.
You should also clean the rotor gear as much as you can, and look if it seems to be worn out or not. It wears out from the middle section where other gear is touching it. So you should be able to very clearly see if it has started to wear out or not.

I have opened many of these motors that have been too noisy. If gears are only a little bit worn out, then greasing will help. But if there is too much damage, then greasing doesn't help anymore. Those motors that I have opened up, it has always been the rotor gear that has had the most damage, and secondly the gear that is touching rotor (third gear). If either one of these gears is clearly worn out, then I will always change both at the same time. By only changing the "third gear" + greasing it is possible to get motor to be silent. But, if worn out rotor is not changed, it will eat up the third gear faster. If your rotor is not worn out, you are lucky.

Changing the rotor gear can be tricky, and because I don't have tools to separate rotor gear from rotor, I always change whole rotor with gear. When changing the rotor or rotor gear, you should also buy calibration display to get motor running again. (If position of magnet at the end of rotor changes in relation to rotor itself, the motor will need a calibration with C961 calibration display. Calibration can be done manually also, but is painful and will need many trial and errors before made succesfully. Rotor is changed by opening the other cheek of the motor (3 screws). Pulling out the rotor needs some fiddling, because magnets keep it very tightly on its position. And when installing new rotor one should always check that rotor doesn't have any metallic parts sticking out. I have had a small metallic plate stick out of the rotor, and when rotor was rotating inside motor, that metallic part touched stator and caused horrific noise and caused electricity to go from rotor to stator via that small metallic piece (after opening motor again there were a small area that was "burnt" because of that. But motor was ok after I removed that broken piece, no damage to motor because I fixed it immediately after noticing.

So for me the minimum is greasing the motor, but if there is visible damage, then I will always change at least 2 gears (well, 1 gear and rotor). And when motor has been opened, it is good practise to also check if that small pawled clutch behind biggest gear is ok. Pawls shoud move with ease and have decent amount of spring tension in all of them. That is a cheap part and if it breaks up, you notice it by not being able to pedal the bike (with throttle it will still move).

Oh, if you later want to change the rotor too, it can be removed and installed back while motor is installed to your bike already. Actually it is easier to pull out while motor being on bike rather than motor being on you table.. And you better be prepared with C961 IF you want to do this.

I focused here to gears and greasing, but just to mention, if there is metallic pieces inside the motor, it is always possible that some bearing has broken. They should all rotate easily without any grinding sensation when rotated with hands. For me, any noise has always been caused by gears, but broken bearing is not rare either with other people I have talked to.
 
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You should also clean the rotor gear as much as you can, and look if it seems to be worn out or not. It wears out from the middle section where other gear is touching it. So you should be able to very clearly see if it has started to wear out or not.

I have opened many of these motors that have been too noisy. If gears are only a little bit worn out, then greasing will help. But if there is too much damage, then greasing doesn't help anymore. Those motors that I have opened up, it has always been the rotor gear that has had the most damage, and secondly the gear that is touching rotor (third gear). If either one of these gears is clearly worn out, then I will always change both at the same time. By only changing the "third gear" + greasing it is possible to get motor to be silent. But, if worn out rotor is not changed, it will eat up the third gear faster. If your rotor is not worn out, you are lucky.

Changing the rotor gear can be tricky, and because I don't have tools to separate rotor gear from rotor, I always change whole rotor with gear. When changing the rotor or rotor gear, you should also buy calibration display to get motor running again. (If position of magnet at the end of rotor changes in relation to rotor itself, the motor will need a calibration with C961 calibration display. Calibration can be done manually also, but is painful and will need many trial and errors before made succesfully. Rotor is changed by opening the other cheek of the motor (3 screws). Pulling out the rotor needs some fiddling, because magnets keep it very tightly on its position. And when installing new rotor one should always check that rotor doesn't have any metallic parts sticking out. I have had a small metallic plate stick out of the rotor, and when rotor was rotating inside motor, that metallic part touched stator and caused horrific noise and caused electricity to go from rotor to stator via that small metallic piece (after opening motor again there were a small area that was "burnt" because of that. But motor was ok after I removed that broken piece, no damage to motor because I fixed it immediately after noticing.

So for me the minimum is greasing the motor, but if there is visible damage, then I will always change at least 2 gears (well, 1 gear and rotor). And when motor has been opened, it is good practise to also check if that small pawled clutch behind biggest gear is ok. Pawls shoud move with ease and have decent amount of spring tension in all of them. That is a cheap part and if it breaks up, you notice it by not being able to pedal the bike (with throttle it will still move).

Oh, if you later want to change the rotor too, it can be removed and installed back while motor is installed to your bike already. Actually it is easier to pull out while motor being on bike rather than motor being on you table.. And you better be prepared with C961 IF you want to do this.

I focused here to gears and greasing, but just to mention, if there is metallic pieces inside the motor, it is always possible that some bearing has broken. They should all rotate easily without any grinding sensation when rotated with hands. For me, any noise has always been caused by gears, but broken bearing is not rare either with other people I have talked to.
Would you mind posting a few pics (or video) pointing out what you're explaining.
I'm good with tools but not very familiar with the internals and naming of each part.
 
Would you mind posting a few pics (or video) pointing out what you're explaining.
I'm good with tools but not very familiar with the internals and naming of each part.
I am not sure what exactly you wanted to be explained in a more better way? There was quite a lot of stuff in that message. but here's something

Pictures explained: new rotor next to REALLY bad one, new opened motor (never driven), gears deattached

Rotors are made of thin layered metal sheets. At the most outern spot of rotor, there is only very very thin "bridge" of that metal sheet (at the ends of magnets). I think in this picture new rotor is not yet broken, but looking at the left side of rotor, there is already some damage on the metal sheet as it has bent upwards a bit. One connecting "bridge" broke when I installed the rotor and ended up grinding the stator core (while still being connected to rotor via the second bridge)
 

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I am not sure what exactly you wanted to be explained in a more better way? There was quite a lot of stuff in that message. but here's something

Pictures explained: new rotor next to REALLY bad one, new opened motor (never driven), gears deattached

Rotors are made of thin layered metal sheets. At the most outern spot of rotor, there is only very very thin "bridge" of that metal sheet (at the ends of magnets). I think in this picture new rotor is not yet broken, but looking at the left side of rotor, there is already some damage on the metal sheet as it has bent upwards a bit. One connecting "bridge" broke when I installed the rotor and ended up grinding the stator core (while still being connected to rotor via the second bridge)
Perfect!
 
Those motors that I have opened up, it has always been the rotor gear that has had the most damage, and secondly the gear that is touching rotor (third gear). If either one of these gears is clearly worn out, then I will always change both at the same time. By only changing the "third gear" + greasing it is possible to get motor to be silent. But, if worn out rotor is not changed, it will eat up the third gear faster. If your rotor is not worn out, you are lucky.
That answers my question if the rotor gear is made of harder steel than the "third gear". Seems like it's not. That's unfortunate.
 
Bikester, what does this mean: "And you better be prepared with C961 IF you want to do this"

Here's a couple of photos of my rotor gear. Is it toast?

IMG_3039.jpeg


IMG_3038.jpeg
 
Bikester, what does this mean: "And you better be prepared with C961 IF you want to do this"

Here's a couple of photos of my rotor gear. Is it toast?
If your bike has original Bafang controller and you take motor apart too much, then you will have to calibrate motor with C961 display before riding your bike. You will notice if you need to do that, as motor stutters badly if it has lost the calibration (will run slowly but with more throttle it refuces to run and almost jumps on the table).

BUT I believe you have wattwagons/Innotrace controller? If that is the case, then you can NOT calibrate motor with that display and you have to do it manually, which is pain in the ass operation (doable but takes many trial and errors as I said before).

I have needed to do the calibration only if I have replaced the rotor (when installing the same rotor back I have not needed to do the calibration. I explained the reason to that before.), but some people have said that only by removing the controller motor has needed the calibration process. If you still haven't taken that rotor out and are not prepared to do calibration manually, then I suggest you don't. First try without replacing rotor. Grease it and install your other new gears and check if motor will run quietly or not, or if it refuces to run smoothly.

And yes, that rotor looks bad. If for some reason you manage to run your regreased motor quietly without replacing that rotor, it will eat up the third gear faster as that rotor has more "free play"

Edit: Rotor can be taken out and put back when motor is installed on the bike. I fixed my rotor that had that metal part sticking out that way, and as I put the same rotor back it did not need recalibration. If you replace rotor, manual calibration has to be done when motor is not installed on the bike.
 
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Easy fix, Replace the whole thing.
Plug and play complete engine.
 
Thanks for the reply, Bikester. I definitely won't be replacing the motor rotor. I'll put the motor back together, with the new gears, and hope for the best.
I'm surprised the motor rotor showed so much wear, considering that I have less than 2000 miles on the bike.
 
I'm surprised the motor rotor showed so much wear, considering that I have less than 2000 miles on the bike.
Stock motor will more likely last longer than those with Innotrace/WW controllers - even with factory grease. It has not been designed to take the forces caused by tuned controllers that put up 2-3x the power. But even stock motor will wear out over time.
 
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