Re-greasing the Ultra motor...is it time?

[Gionnirocket]

Stock motor will more likely last longer than those with Innotrace/WW controllers - even with factory grease. It has not been designed to take the forces caused by tuned controllers that put up 2-3x the power. But even stock motor can wear out over time.

Hi performance everything, especially when fitted with aftermarket parts (such as a controller) are always a maintenance headache.

 

[Deacon Blues]

Hi performance everything, especially when fitted with aftermarket parts (such as a controller) are always a maintenance headache.

Over the years I've modified a number of vehicles and agree that with the added performance comes maintenance headaches, but for most of the 2000 miles I've been very easy on this motor.
My dilemma now is what do I do.
Do I put in the new gears, re-install the motor and hope for the best, knowing that the worn rotor gear will prematurely wear out the other gear that's mated to it?
I was hoping I could buy a new rotor gear (they're relatively inexpensive) and just replace it, but after reading Bikester's post I realize that's not going to work.
I'm going to contact Pushkar to see if he can be of any help.

 

[Deacon Blues]

@Bikester, what do you think my options are?
Pushkar has offered to take a look at the motor. Unless I can come up with a better solution I'll have to do that. The problem with sending the motor back to WW is shipping will be very expensive. Shipping $$$ from Canada to the US is nuts.

 

[TDA78]

On the "controller" tab of the dealer version of the X1 Tool, there's a button labeled "detect encoder". I'm almost certain it's for calibrating the rotor magnet. It would spin the motor, so have the back wheel off the ground.

 

[Gionnirocket]

The C961 DISPLAY is affordable enough.
Anyone care to explain how to perform the calibration after a rotor replacement?
Funny... this seller notes this display is not compatible with Bafang mid drives other than the BBS* series.
.

 

[scrambler]

The video below does mention you need the calibration display with the proper firmware for the motor

 

[Gionnirocket]

The video below does mention you need the calibration display with the proper firmware for the motor

Just found that myself and was just about to post.

So let me add this

Note the amount of grease in both videos

 

[Deacon Blues]

I discussed my dilemma with Pushkar and he didn't realize that the motor had to be recalibrated when a new motor rotor gear was installed.
He offered to look at the motor if I shipped it to him, but I'm wondering if he would know how to recalibrate the motor.
Right now I'm leaning towards putting the old gears back in (because the damaged motor rotor gear would end up damaging the new gears), re-greasing everything and putting the motor back in the bike.

 

[Bikester]

@Bikester, what do you think my options are?
Pushkar has offered to take a look at the motor. Unless I can come up with a better solution I'll have to do that. The problem with sending the motor back to WW is shipping will be very expensive. Shipping $$$ from Canada to the US is nuts.

I discussed my dilemma with Pushkar and he didn't realize that the motor had to be recalibrated when a new motor rotor gear was installed.
He offered to look at the motor if I shipped it to him, but I'm wondering if he would know how to recalibrate the motor.
Right now I'm leaning towards putting the old gears back in (because the damaged motor rotor gear would end up damaging the new gears), re-greasing everything and putting the motor back in the bike.

I can't really say what you should do. It is up to you only what you choose to do and are you willing to learn new stuff, or take the easy way out. Learn and fix it yourself, or buy a new one. Of cource you propably can only get motors with stock controllers as Innotrace is more no-trace atm. (Don't know if WW has these anymore in stock, as new ones are not coming anymore.) If you want to keep more powerful motor and cant get a new one, then you absolutely have to fix it somehow.

I believe I can help you with calibrating the motor if you want to change the rotor yourself. I obviously can not guarantee the result as I am not a professional anything. But I have succesfully done it myself.

Maybe manual calibration is something that should have its own thread, maybe sticky one? (I am quite busy guy and propably have to do a bit rough explanation only. And I would have to use pictures I already have, as I don't want to open motor just for making educational material. And atm I don't have any broken motors that would need to be opened.)

Oh, and I think I just realized a way to do manual calibration while motor is installed on the bike! But it will still require removing rotor at least couple of times. Haven't done it that way myself, but in theory it should be possible.

Edit: easier solution would be if calibration could be done with X1 tool as @TDA78 is suggesting.

 

[Bikester]

On the "controller" tab of the dealer version of the X1 Tool, there's a button labeled "detect encoder". I'm almost certain it's for calibrating the rotor magnet. It would spin the motor, so have the back wheel off the ground.

At least before there has not been possibility to do the calibration with X1 tool. I live in Europe, and here only option has been to send it back to Innotrace and they calibrate it. But if you have true dealer version, then it might be possible. I don't even have X1 tool, and I don't really know anything about it and the capabilities it can do.

 

[Bikester]

The C961 DISPLAY is affordable enough.
Anyone care to explain how to perform the calibration after a rotor replacement?
Funny... this seller notes this display is not compatible with Bafang mid drives other than the BBS* series.
.

Calibration with C961 can NOT be done to motors that have Innotrace / wattwagons controller. It just doesn't work. (I have tried.)

 

[Deacon Blues]

It wouldn't bother me if I had to replace my present X1 controlled motor with a stock motor. I seldom come close to using the bike's full power and would be content with around 1200W.

Anyways, for now I've decided to put the motor back on the bike with the old gears and ride it until I come up with a better solution.
Thanks for the input, Bikester.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Calibration with C961 can NOT be done to motors that have Innotrace / wattwagons controller. It just doesn't work. (I have tried.)

Yes I understand this...
I was expanding on the initial question and asking for information for general consumption.
I don't even own an Ultra motor..... yet!

 

[Fast n' Furious]

I turned the case upside down and the gears fell out and I'm wondering the heck the black stuff is. Wear from the gears?
I sent the photos to Pushkar, via email. I hope he responds.

Black stuff is usually fine metal powder. If the lube burned you would smell it. Electronic circuit-board cleaner will safely wash crud out.
Bitcoin miners run 2000watt S9's submerged in Mineral Oil. Grin has a lube it fills some hub motors with.
An issue could be the type of grease, but sufficient grease on gears should show evidence of grease slop from the centrifugal force.
I have 1/3 your miles. Initially the Ultra was loud, less so at 100miles and even less so now.
Glad you brought this up. Have to pull the motor this Winter.

Fn'F

 

[Deacon Blues]

Put the motor back in the Hydra and everything works fine. This afternoon I put the motor back in the UC Pro and the display won't boot up. DAMN!
Looks like I'll be taking everything apart again.
Putting all the wires in place to bolt the motor in is a REAL pain. There isn't much space between the motor housing and the frame. Way, way easier install with the Hydra.

 

[Gionnirocket]

Put the motor back in the Hydra and everything works fine. This afternoon I put the motor back in the UC Pro and the display won't boot up. DAMN!
Looks like I'll be taking everything apart again.
Putting all the wires in place to bolt the motor in is a REAL pain. There isn't much space between the motor housing and the frame. Way, way easier install with the Hydra.

I sometimes wonder what f'in' magician assembles things at a factory.

 

[Deacon Blues]

I sometimes wonder what f'in' magician assembles things at a factory.

As I mentioned, putting the motor back in the Hydra's frame was easy. Lots of room for the wires. With my UC Pro there is very little room between the motor and the frame.

 

[Gionnirocket]

As I mentioned, putting the motor back in the Hydra's frame was easy. Lots of room for the wires. With my UC Pro there is very little room between the motor and the frame.

I get it. . I've disassembled many a thing and wonder how it was initially assembled so easily when there's no room to work once taken apart

 

[Bikester]

Put the motor back in the Hydra and everything works fine. This afternoon I put the motor back in the UC Pro and the display won't boot up. DAMN!
Looks like I'll be taking everything apart again.

If motor is working in one bike but not in another, it seems that motor is ok at least, and the problem is somewhere in your UC Pro, maybe wiring? You should at least check that all the connectors are tightly connected and no wires crushed when you installed motor back. If your display don't boot up, then at least check display connector and maybe try with another display. Then check the power connector at least

 

[Gionnirocket]

If motor is working in one bike but not in another, it seems that motor is ok at least, and the problem is somewhere in your UC Pro, maybe wiring? You should at least check that all the connectors are tightly connected and no wires crushed when you installed motor back. If your display don't boot up, then at least check display connector and maybe try with another display. Then check the power connector at least

I believe he has 2 motors/bikes, one being more difficult to work on.
But your troubleshooting tips are where I would start