Over 50's 2017 XDuro Trekking 4.0 Chronicles

[Over50]

I'm in the Haibike forum and not the Riese and Muller forum? Yes, I ordered a Haibike as my backup commuter and alternative ride. I wanted to switch things up from time to time and have a backup bike for when the R&M needs work.

Several factors influenced my purchase decision in no particular order:

• felt like a class 1 wouldn't slow my commute too much due to all the start/stop I have
• wanted to stick with Bosch for availability of service and battery sharing
• wanted a lower tech bike as the backup (no IGH and not a belt drive) for better availability of mechanics that can fix things
• most important: wanted to buy locally this time since I am not a good mechanic and am dependent on local shops for service - for mid-tier to upper-tier Bosch bikes this means I only had access to Trek and Haibike (could buy Specialized Vado if I wanted a Brose bike)
• Rode the Trek Super Commuter but don't like the red color and lack of suspension
• Really like the motor and battery integration on the Trekking 4.0; how the CX motor is tilted up, also like the lighting on the 4.0
• Pleased with the Super Moto-X tires on the R&M and same come on the Trekking 4.0; originally thought to go to a narrower tire but my roads really suck; and I've run over a lot of glass with my Moto-X tires and so far no flats

The biggest concern was sizing and there are some posts in this thread about that:
https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/are-haibikes-huge.13377/page-2
Trying the bike for sizing wasn't going to be an option unless I was willing to travel. I spent quite a bit of money doing this when I purchased the R&M and didn't really want to repeat with this purchase. So sizing was the biggest concern/risk with this purchase. I had several knowledgeable opinions steering me to the S 52cm and several to the XS 48cm frame (I'm 5'8" to 5'9" and 29.5" inseam - buy 30" inseam jeans). I ordered the XS as the opinions and feedback on this forum seemed to tick slightly in the favor of the XS. But the real clincher was the shop telling me they would put the bike into inventory if it wasn't the right size and order another for me. Great service from the shop which is primarily a Trek dealer but also sells IZip. They are a local outfit with a few locations and one of their locations has sold some Haibikes. My location has never stocked one so they had to do some research on order process etc. But they seem to think the bike will be one they can sell to another customer if it doesn't fit me. That really reduced my risk of purchase. I even offered to pay a restocking fee if necessary but they cited me being a good customer etc and said that wouldn't be necessary.

We also compared the Trekking 4.0 specs to some Treks and it seemed to fit more closely to the Powerfly 5 which they had in the shop. I took out a 17.5" Powerfly 5 (really fun bike by the way) and it seemed a good fit. Standover height on the Powerfly was listed the same as the Trekking 4.0 for instance. Geometries after that varied somewhat but fingers crossed that the 17.5" Powerfly was close enough of a proxy to the XS Trekking 4.0.

So when the bike comes in and if it fits I plan to make some mods (BodyFloat, maybe pedals, maybe handlebars, locking seat clamp maybe some security skewers), find some fitting panniers and/or trunk bag, and then break the bike in for some later summer commuting. I hope to have some feedback and comparisons to the R&M Charger to post here in the near future.

 

[Jan1of1]

I'm in the Haibike forum and not the Riese and Muller forum? Yes, I ordered a Haibike as my backup commuter and alternative ride. I wanted to switch things up from time to time and have a backup bike for when the R&M needs work.

Several factors influenced my purchase decision in no particular order:

• felt like a class 1 wouldn't slow my commute too much due to all the start/stop I have
• wanted to stick with Bosch for availability of service and battery sharing
• wanted a lower tech bike as the backup (no IGH and not a belt drive) for better availability of mechanics that can fix things
• most important: wanted to buy locally this time since I am not a good mechanic and am dependent on local shops for service - for mid-tier to upper-tier Bosch bikes this means I only had access to Trek and Haibike (could buy Specialized Vado if I wanted a Brose bike)
• Rode the Trek Super Commuter but don't like the red color and lack of suspension
• Really like the motor and battery integration on the Trekking 4.0; how the CX motor is tilted up, also like the lighting on the 4.0
• Pleased with the Super Moto-X tires on the R&M and same come on the Trekking 4.0; originally thought to go to a narrower tire but my roads really suck; and I've run over a lot of glass with my Moto-X tires and so far no flats

The biggest concern was sizing and there are some posts in this thread about that:
https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/are-haibikes-huge.13377/page-2
Trying the bike for sizing wasn't going to be an option unless I was willing to travel. I spent quite a bit of money doing this when I purchased the R&M and didn't really want to repeat with this purchase. So sizing was the biggest concern/risk with this purchase. I had several knowledgeable opinions steering me to the S 52cm and several to the XS 48cm frame (I'm 5'8" to 5'9" and 29.5" inseam - buy 30" inseam jeans). I ordered the XS as the opinions and feedback on this forum seemed to tick slightly in the favor of the XS. But the real clincher was the shop telling me they would put the bike into inventory if it wasn't the right size and order another for me. Great service from the shop which is primarily a Trek dealer but also sells IZip. They are a local outfit with a few locations and one of their locations has sold some Haibikes. My location has never stocked one so they had to do some research on order process etc. But they seem to think the bike will be one they can sell to another customer if it doesn't fit me. That really reduced my risk of purchase. I even offered to pay a restocking fee if necessary but they cited me being a good customer etc and said that wouldn't be necessary.

We also compared the Trekking 4.0 specs to some Treks and it seemed to fit more closely to the Powerfly 5 which they had in the shop. I took out a 17.5" Powerfly 5 (really fun bike by the way) and it seemed a good fit. Standover height on the Powerfly was listed the same as the Trekking 4.0 for instance. Geometries after that varied somewhat but fingers crossed that the 17.5" Powerfly was close enough of a proxy to the XS Trekking 4.0.

So when the bike comes in and if it fits I plan to make some mods (BodyFloat, maybe pedals, maybe handlebars, locking seat clamp maybe some security skewers), find some fitting panniers and/or trunk bag, and then break the bike in for some later summer commuting. I hope to have some feedback and comparisons to the R&M Charger to post here in the near future.

I have a 2016 XDuro Trekking bike... I'm 5'8 with a 30" inseam. I went with - and it fits perfectly - a medium frame which you don't even mention.

 

[Over50]

I have a 2016 XDuro Trekking bike... I'm 5'8 with a 30" inseam. I went with - and it fits perfectly - a medium frame which you don't even mention.

Yes, I eliminated from my decision making since most of the opinions I received (and examples I found in the forums) were between the 48 XS and the 52 S. I think I found an example or two of riders on the M 56 but they were folks all at 6 feet or over. One seller of the 2017 4.0 refers to its "redesigned geometry" so I hope it isn't so much so that it is invalidating the opinions I received which might be based on other and earlier Trekking models.

 

[E-Wheels]

Yes, I eliminated from my decision making since most of the opinions I received (and examples I found in the forums) were between the 48 XS and the 52 S. I think I found an example or two of riders on the M 56 but they were folks all at 6 feet or over. One seller of the 2017 4.0 refers to its "redesigned geometry" so I hope it isn't so much so that it is invalidating the opinions I received which might be based on other and earlier Trekking models.

You are about to make a big commitment. The only way to be sure is to throw your leg over and do a couple of test rides to gauge the best size

 

[Roseville]

What is the trick to re-install Haibike battery? Top or bottom first? Thx

 

[Over50]

My XDuro Trekking 4.0 arrived and I test rode it today - XS 48 cm.

To recap: the LBS agreed to put the bike back in stock if it didn't fit and order a different size. I've already paid full purchase price. I had some very knowledgeable folks advise me to order the S (52 cm) and some equally knowledgeable folks advise me to order the XS. For example, a Haibike Marketing Manager was in the small camp and Ravi and the shop advertising to be the biggest Haibike seller (California) was in the XS camp. I set the bike side by side with my Riese and Muller Charger (M - 49 cm) and it does seem a bit smaller front to back but not noticeably so. The height seemed the same. I straddled the XS Haibike with shoes on and I touch the top tube. This is almost identical Stand-Over to the Charger although their specs say they are different by a cm or two. Judging solely on Stand-Over, I think the XS must be the right bike as I would have zero clearance on the next larger size.

Now considering reach: the bike felt good when I started riding. It is actually more upright vs the Charger and my arms were extended without being locked. It seemed fine but after about 30 minutes of riding I felt some pressure on my hands that I don't feel on the Charger. This seemed odd to be with a more upright position. I think the seat could be pushed back about 1/2 inch and the grips could be rotated. An LBS employee commented that the bike looked a bit short in terms of reach. So this is the odd thing about the Haibike vs the R&M. It has the scrunched up Top Tube and shorter wheelbase and everything seems closer together. I like the sporty feel of the bike and I even like the wider handle bars. They do help me starting from a stop because I have more leverage. I feel like the bike will be easier to take over curbs and sidewalks when necessary whereas the R&M is a better cruiser over long distance. I definitely wouldn't say I like it better than the R&M it is just different in ride and handling. The Haibike is sportier, perhaps lighter, and feels more agile. The R&M feels like it is more comfortable and would be particularly more comfortable over longer distance of on-road riding (it is worth mentioning that they have the same tires).

As for the 20mph CX motor: I definitely can't get the top speeds I get with the R&M but we're talking 19-20 mph vs 22-25 mph. I don't know though if it will really slow my commute. I did the test ride a lot in Sport mode and the torque is impressive. I feel like I just jump right up to 19 mph effortlessly. I'm sure it will cost me a bit of time on my commute but I don't think it will be much. It might save me some effort given the amount of start/stop on my commute and also have and advantage at those downtown intersections. I usually ride the R&M in Tour and Eco and focus more on range vs fast starting and top speed. The Haibike in Sport mode just jumps into action and then levels off between 19 and 20 mph. I didn't have much success maintaining a speed over 21 although I did top out at 21 on my test ride. The motor cutoff is extremely smooth and I don't necessarily feel it cutting out. I moreso just notice that I can't keep accelerating.

I think it is going to be a good 2nd commuter offering very different ride characteristics. My LBS guy left on vacation today so I didn't take delivery of the bike. Next steps are to order a BodyFloat and some pedals (opting for the same Origin8 Slimline 9s currently in use on my R&M). When my LBS guy is back I'll go back in for some additional fit confirmation before I agree to take this bike.

Just a note on the rear carrier: there was a thread here about panniers/bags for the rack. I ordered the 20 mm Ortleib hooks and took them to the LbS to check the size. They seemed way too large. Odd because folks seemed pretty certain the Standwell rack requires the 20 mm hooks. The rack is a bit wider vs the Racktime on the R&M thus the Vaude bag with the Racktime adaptor will not fit. Also, the lights are not daytime running and can be turned on/off. I thought they would be like the euro-lights on the R&M and 'always on'. But I'm glad for the potential daylight battery savings when I can use my USB rechargeable flashers. When/if I take delivery of this bike next week I will post some side by side comparison pictures to the R&M.

 

[Ravi Kempaiah]

bike looked a bit short in terms of reach.

The handlebars have -6' angle meaning it will be shorter reach. I think R&M has more flat'ish handlebars.
Once you put the Body Float, your seat will go another 2" back..just to keep in mind.

 

[Over50]

@Over50 - Pretty sure you'll need the 20mm hooks. It might look like the 16mm hooks are OK, but they won't clip if that's the same rack I have. The 20 mm ones barely clip on.

I took the 20mm hooks with me and they were too large. The bags would slide around way too much if I tried to use those. I think the rack on the XDuro and SDuros is a different manufacturer so perhaps the specs are different. I'm not optimistic I'll be able to find a trunk bag for a Standwell carrier as I find absolutely zero reference to accessories when I search euro sites. It was hard enough to find the Vaude trunk bags for the Racktime for the R&M but with Standwell I've so far struck out. I didn't have my 16mm hooks with me when I went to the LBS but I'm hoping they'll fit. Sure would be nice if these bike manufacturers put more details in their specs on their websites. And one would think they would partner with accessory manufacturers and suggest accessories with each of their bike models. But whadda I know ...

By the way, I ordered the Silkline Plus for the R&M from Vaude since the Silkline L has worked out really well. Should arrive from Europe tomorrow:
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

 

[Over50]

The Xduro 5.0 and Sduro 6.0 have the same racks. But the Xduro 4.0 seem to have different racks..

I took my 16 mm hooks to the LBS and they are too small. The 20 mm hooks have a lot of extra room. Odd thing that the rack doesn't have perfectly rounded rails. They are kind of like rounded triangular rails. Trying to find panniers/bags for this bike may be nearly impossible.

But before I can worry about bags, the LBS has to get the bike back in working order: I went in with the BodyFloat seat post and it does help with the reach. I think we can make the 48 cm frame work for me and we have additional options of changing the stem and making some handlebar adjustments. But when I test rode the bike the front wheel visually seemed to wobble a bit. The LBS had already told me the wheels were true. So I mentioned it. The employee was messing with the thru-axle release mechanism and I believe he broke it. The locking nut with the gold cap thingy came apart on him and he said "I guess were done". So the bike is still at the LBS and presently it isn't in working order - next week I'll have to see what they can do to replace that component. I was really trying to buy my 2nd e-bike from a local shop but it presents real challenges in a town where e-bikes are not readily available or understood.

 

[Over50]

I've had problems with the front thru axle as well. Very tricky. If you don't slot it through properly the wheel wobbles.

Edit: And I was looking for a trunk bag too (to carry an extra battery).

The one below fits, but when it's locked into position on the rack you can no longer clip on the panniers. You can either have the panniers or the trunk bag, but not both. I actually had the shop physically install the bag on the rack. The shop manager said it was specifically made for this bike. But I'm not sure you have the same rack...

https://best-bike-parts.de/XLC-Gepaecktraeger-Tasche-BA-S47-fuer-carry-more-System_1

Jayvee - Thanks for the tip on the axle and the link. Is there any particular trick for the thru-axle to get it to slot correctly? I have watched the one Youtube video I can find although it really doesn't have much narration.

I think that bag will work. I should have taken a photo of the rack at the LBS but I'm pretty sure it said XLC Carrymore on it. Can you explain further what you mean by having the shop physically install the bag? It seems if it has the adaptor/click in system you would just have to click in and out as needed. Was that for security so someone couldn't remove it? How did they physically install it - is there a locking device?

I have the same issue with the Riese and Muller as far as mutually exclusive panniers or trunk bag. Its one or the other but not both. For lighter summer commuting I'm using the Vaude bag and a Shimano backpack but in colder weather I was using two panniers. I feel the bag/backpack option is more streamlined and better for headwind days but I sweat more due to that pack. I just received a new Vaude bag for the R&M yesterday and I'm hoping to post some side by side pics of the two Vaude bags tonight.

 

[Sonoboy]

I took my 16 mm hooks to the LBS and they are too small. The 20 mm hooks have a lot of extra room. Odd thing that the rack doesn't have perfectly rounded rails. They are kind of like rounded triangular rails. Trying to find panniers/bags for this bike may be nearly impossible.

But before I can worry about bags, the LBS has to get the bike back in working order: I went in with the BodyFloat seat post and it does help with the reach. I think we can make the 48 cm frame work for me and we have additional options of changing the stem and making some handlebar adjustments. But when I test rode the bike the front wheel visually seemed to wobble a bit. The LBS had already told me the wheels were true. So I mentioned it. The employee was messing with the thru-axle release mechanism and I believe he broke it. The locking nut with the gold cap thingy came apart on him and he said "I guess were done". So the bike is still at the LBS and presently it isn't in working order - next week I'll have to see what they can do to replace that component. I was really trying to buy my 2nd e-bike from a local shop but it presents real challenges in a town where e-bikes are not readily available or understood.

Uh Oh...Regarding the collet type front fork pin...you might want to check the link below. Supposedly, if you take apart the collet you're going to have a devil of a time with re-assembly, even if you can find all the parts.

https://www.singletracks.com/blog/mtb-gear/review-sr-suntour-aion-fork/

 

[Over50]

Uh Oh...Regarding the collet type front fork pin...you might want to check the link below. Supposedly, if you take apart the collet you're going to have a devil of a time with re-assembly, even if you can find all the parts.

https://www.singletracks.com/blog/mtb-gear/review-sr-suntour-aion-fork/

You are correct. Good link. I think the collet came apart unintentionally and I'm going to ask the LBS to just order a new one. It seems they are pretty readily available on Suntour's US website (fingers crossed) for about $60. I want to get this all reserved and take delivery of the bike.
(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

 

[Over50]

Re the thru axle -maybe a picture is clearer...

Good pics. The correct version looks like how I see it on my R&M. The incorrect version looks like how I saw it on the R&M prior to taking it apart" ...

 

[Over50]

The LBS replaced the thru axle and I took delivery of the XDuro Trekking today but was only able to ride about 5 miles. I'm going to put some miles on it and maybe a few commutes and then make a decision about adding a longer stem to increase reach and perhaps coupling a longer stem with shorter handle bars. The 720mm bars seem to go well with a short stem but it will take some getting used. I've added the BodyFloat, the Origen8 Slimline 9 pedals and a B&M mirror. Modifications to come: switching out the bell tomorrow for a Spurcycle and I need to find a seat clamp (don't want to lock the bike up downtown with a quick release clamp). I'll also be looking for an Abus mount for my folding lock, a velcro or similar water bottle mount and a pannier (I've ordered an Arkel GT-18 but will post that in another thread). The CX motor is super responsive but the 20mph cutoff puts a real damper on the thrill of that acceleration. The bike gets up to 19mph instantly so when you top out at 19.5, it really leaves you wanting more. Attached are some pictures of the bike next to the R&M Charger as well as some of the components such as the pedals I added:

 

[Over50]

I took my 16 mm hooks to the LBS and they are too small. The 20 mm hooks have a lot of extra room. Odd thing that the rack doesn't have perfectly rounded rails. They are kind of like rounded triangular rails. Trying to find panniers/bags for this bike may be nearly impossible...

I was a dope. The LBS pointed out that the Haibike rack has pannier rails which my R&M does not have. So for the R&M it is trunk bag or panniers but not both. I was trying to attach my 16mm and 20mm Ortlieb hooks to the cargo rack rails which seem to be about 18mm. The pannier rails are much narrower so Ortlieb standard adaptors work - however the bottom attachment really needs the hook system similar to what comes with Axiom or Arkel panniers. So whereas my Ortlieb hooks are the correct size, the Ortlieb's bottom clip thingy doesn't really attach very well. I've ordered the Arkel GT-18 Backpack (in green) and I'll see if that works:

 

[Over50]

@Over50 - I'm curious to know whether the panniers that you hook on the lower horizontals bars (i.e. "inside the V") are hanging too low. I've been thinking this over, and I might modify mine to have both a trunk bag and panniers.

I don't think so but I don't have the pannier yet so can't say for sure (arrives tomorrow). It really looks like the rack was designed for the panniers to ride low. The bike shop guy, when he saw me trying to size my Ortlieb hooks to the cargo rack said "no, they intended for you to use the lower rails for panniers which gives you more stability because the weight is distributed lower to the ground" ... The width of the pannier rails is fairly narrow more like a front rack where you usually hang "low riders". So it all seems plausible. The Arkel bags seem to be highly adjustable in terms of width so I'm optimistic the GT18 will fit. By this weekend I should be able to give you a better answer.

 

[Over50]

@Over50 - I'm curious to know whether the panniers that you hook on the lower horizontals bars (i.e. "inside the V") are hanging too low. I've been thinking this over, and I might modify mine to have both a trunk bag and panniers.

JayVee - you were correct in your thinking about the bags riding too low. I received the Arkel GT-18 BP and it is a gorgeous bag of superior quality (a bit small like a front pannier). But unfortunately, anything mounted to those lower rails will ride too low and conflict with the rider's heels. The top hooks on the Arkel are a perfect fit for the lower rails but the wire lower hook is too long. One could shorten the bungees but the velcro strap to hold the wire hook cannot be moved up on the back of the bag. But even if the wire hook could be adjusted to the appropriate length, the bag rides too low. This rack is a really bad design and its hard for me to believe that Haibike would have chosen this for a USA model. I sent a communication to Haibike to ask for bag suggestions but I bet they will not respond (we'll see). So for now it looks like I've got this great looking rack on the bike which is pretty much useless for commuting purposes. I plan to commute on it soon but looks like I'll be a sweaty mess hauling a large, heavy backpack.

Kudos to Arkel on their design and quality (the bag is a beauty). I'd love to keep the GT-18 but unfortunately it doesn't fit the R&M either. The R&M's Racktime rack doesn't have the lower attachment point for the wire hook (is optimal for the Ortlieb-type lower attachment design).

 

[Over50]

I'm actually happy with my Ortlieb panniers and the 20mm hooks...

Your 20mm hooks do not leave too much space and hence slide around/rattle? I might go back and try to work something out with my 20mm adaptor (still have it) ... maybe can put some sort of foam tape on the rack to take up the space (thinking out loud)... I may also have to look at velcro rack top options.

 

[Sonoboy]

Your 20mm hooks do not leave too much space and hence slide around/rattle? I might go back and try to work something out with my 20mm adaptor (still have it) ... maybe can put some sort of foam tape on the rack to take up the space (thinking out loud)... I may also have to look at velcro rack top options.

I don't know if it's still available, but here's a possible Ortlieb solution:

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)

 

[Over50]

Yes, some sort of adaptor like Sonoboy posted might be a way to go. I've got my eye on an Arkel velcro option. Didn't really want to go to velcro when I've got a rack designed for a secure mounting system but velcro might be the least problematic at this point. Bag gets pretty good reviews: