My Review of the Riese & Müller Delite GX Rohloff

[pedelecsva]

What kind of derestriction do you use? I've looked at some, and some of them mention that they are not compatible with dual battery setups. Also, a lot of forums and dealers mention the voided warranty and engine faults as reasons not to do derestriction. But I don't know if this is even an issue. I've not been able to find one single user who has encountered these faults.

 

[Dmitri]

What kind of derestriction do you use? I've looked at some, and some of them mention that they are not compatible with dual battery setups. Also, a lot of forums and dealers mention the voided warranty and engine faults as reasons not to do derestriction. But I don't know if this is even an issue. I've not been able to find one single user who has encountered these faults.

I uses BadassBox. It's probably the simplest kind of thing you can use.

 

[pedelecsva]

Thank you. It looks much simpler and less intrusive than those I have looked at. Now the million dollar question... Will a bike dealer or Bosch be able to see if this has been used, in case of a warranty claim?

 

[TrevorB]

Thank you. It looks much simpler and less intrusive than those I have looked at. Now the million dollar question... Will a bike dealer or Bosch be able to see if this has been used, in case of a warranty claim?

Assume YES. Especially if motor logs power and speed. Most likely warranty claim will be bearing failures, typically from water ingress either MTBing in mud or wash down afterwards. If you are fitting dongle then mostly its for road riding in which bearing failure is less likely. Lots of threads on this and associated seal maintenance to extend bearing life.

My experience of Badass is its awesome on road but does require slower gear shifts. Wouldn't recommend using for serious MTBing were fast unforgiving shifts are required, plus I've not found 25kmh cutoff is really an issue MTBing.

One issue with dongles is motor can be pushed hard in turbo for extended periods, doesn't hurt motor but is hard on battery as it can get quite warm. Dual battery, switches between batteries every 5%, keeping batteries cooler and extending there life.

 

[pedelecsva]

Assume YES. Especially if motor logs power and speed. Most likely warranty claim will be bearing failures, typically from water ingress either MTBing in mud or wash down afterwards. If you are fitting dongle then mostly its for road riding in which bearing failure is less likely. Lots of threads on this and associated seal maintenance to extend bearing life.

My experience of Badass is its awesome on road but does require slower gear shifts. Wouldn't recommend using for serious MTBing were fast unforgiving shifts are required, plus I've not found 25kmh cutoff is really an issue MTBing.

One issue with dongles is motor can be pushed hard in turbo for extended periods, doesn't hurt motor but is hard on battery as it can get quite warm. Dual battery, switches between batteries every 5%, keeping batteries cooler and extending there life.

I have my cursor hovering over the "add to basket" button on the Delite GX Rohloff HS with upgraded suspension and Kiox display. But a few things keep me from pressing...

I've watched your videos which I really appreciate, since it is nice to see a review from a user, and not a dealer. This bike is way more than I need, but that is why I want it. I love overengineered machinery.

I want to use this bike for two/three things.
1. Riding casually on forest trails exploring the countryside with my 2 year old daughter in a child seat, or maybe in a trailer.
2. Riding to and from work, which is 45 km each way on backcountry roads. Not every day, but more often than I do now on my roadbike. It takes me 1:20 on a good day on my roadbike with a 35km/h average. And I want it to go faster than I can do on my roadbike.
3. Occasionally riding light MTB in the forest on my own. In fairly good weather.

My problem is that in my country you can have either a 25km/h ebike which it is legal to put a childseat/trailer on, or you can have a 45km/h bike which you cannot legally attach a child seat on. Don't get me wrong, I would never drive around like an idiot with my child in a trailer or in a child seat with 45km/h, but I do need to be able to do both, if i am to spend this amount of money on it.

The other thing I am worried about is insurance. You don't have to register the 45km/h bike, but you do need to get a liability insurance. Riding on a derestricted 25km/h bike and getting involved in an accident would be very bad. Whereas I don't even see a chance of me being pulled over with on a 45km/h bike if I ride sensibly with a child seat on.

Any thoughts on this?

 

[Dmitri]

Any thoughts on this?

I would like to offer a point which is contrary to what the canon is here on cycling forums.

My approach is roughly this: not all laws are legitimate, and some laws, even though you're supposed to obey them are clearly illegitimate. When some unelected EU bureaucrats take ebike laws from Japan (where average rider weight and height of the rider is much less than that of Europeans) and just copy them over as a EU-wide directive without any public consultation, this law has zero legitimacy.

Furthermore, when arbitrary restrictions are made for no reason whatsoever (e.g., no throttle allowed) without any sensible reason given for doing so, again, this is a law that's not legitimate.

It gets even crazier. Did you know that children under 14 aren't allowed to ride on bikes in many countries. Yet many manufacturers make kids' ebikes, I got one, it's normal and children aren't getting into accidents because of these (at least not that I can see).

So, moral of the story is, you need to weigh your risks. Derestrictions are typically disabled using a button press so if anyone checks, you can just switch it back to pedelec mode and nobody can prove anything. I doubt that, in the case of an accident anyone is going to investigate the internals of your bike. Trust me, the people qualified to do that aren't found in many places, and thinking that insurance/police are even remotely aware of how ebikes even function is silly.

So, long story short, I would not worry about some potential consequences of getting in trouble because the bike is derestricted. What I would worry about is the objective safety of your child as you are going at 45kph. If you are happy with the rists, put on a child seat and let people assume you're on an ordinary pedelec.

 

[Ebiker01]

Very nice quality review !
Some Q’s:
-what is the maker of that mud/rain protector underneath the downtube ?
- with the bike getting heavier now , what would you say is the % of mile /km range drop from battery capacity ? 25-35% ? And how heavy is in this combination with the Ortliebs ?
Ps- i would have put the small blinkers on the side of the paniers.

- how do you clean it ? i see that you must ride it deep in the Mtb trails, is build like a tank now , congrats ! I would like to see a Stromer St5 built like that...

 

[Dmitri]

Very nice quality review !
Some Q’s:
-what is the maker of that mud/rain protector underneath the downtube ?
- with the bike getting heavier now , what would you say is the % of mile /km range drop from battery capacity ? 25-35% ? And how heavy is in this combination with the Ortliebs ?
Ps- i would have put the small blinkers on the side of the paniers.

- how do you clean it ? i see that you must ride it deep in the Mtb trails, is build like a tank now , congrats ! I would like to see a Stromer St5 built like that...

• The mudguard is the BBB FatFender.
• I don't notice any major change in range. Compared to my weight, the extra weight of the panniers is marginal. I haven't weighed the bike.
• I did put blinkers on the sides at some point.
• In terms of cleaning, I only clean the bike occasionally. Just some damp cloth, no magic here.

 

[Chris Nolte]

Hi Dimitri. I think I've heard you mention in one of your videos, that you've had a childseat on the Delite. Do you have any pictures of this, and any recommendations regarding this? I am thinking of ordering af Delite Rohloff GX HS with riding with my daughter as one of the main reasons. Is it good? Thanks.

I would just be mindful of the fact that the weight rating is only 20kg’s (44lbs) for a light child it could work, but I would be cautious about exceeding that. The Thule Nexxt Maxi is 6.6lbs so you could carry a 37lb child.

Depending on your child weigh you could start there and move to a trailer or trail a bike when you kid gets heavier. Tout Terrain makes a full suspension kids trailer which is pretty awesome!

https://tout-terrain.de/en/the-products/trailers/330/singletrailer#

 

[pedelecsva]

I would like to offer a point which is contrary to what the canon is here on cycling forums.

My approach is roughly this: not all laws are legitimate, and some laws, even though you're supposed to obey them are clearly illegitimate. When some unelected EU bureaucrats take ebike laws from Japan (where average rider weight and height of the rider is much less than that of Europeans) and just copy them over as a EU-wide directive without any public consultation, this law has zero legitimacy.

Furthermore, when arbitrary restrictions are made for no reason whatsoever (e.g., no throttle allowed) without any sensible reason given for doing so, again, this is a law that's not legitimate.

It gets even crazier. Did you know that children under 14 aren't allowed to ride on bikes in many countries. Yet many manufacturers make kids' ebikes, I got one, it's normal and children aren't getting into accidents because of these (at least not that I can see).

So, moral of the story is, you need to weigh your risks. Derestrictions are typically disabled using a button press so if anyone checks, you can just switch it back to pedelec mode and nobody can prove anything. I doubt that, in the case of an accident anyone is going to investigate the internals of your bike. Trust me, the people qualified to do that aren't found in many places, and thinking that insurance/police are even remotely aware of how ebikes even function is silly.

So, long story short, I would not worry about some potential consequences of getting in trouble because the bike is derestricted. What I would worry about is the objective safety of your child as you are going at 45kph. If you are happy with the rists, put on a child seat and let people assume you're on an ordinary pedelec.

I very much agree with your views on

I would just be mindful of the fact that the weight rating is only 20kg’s (44lbs) for a light child it could work, but I would be cautious about exceeding that. The Thule Nexxt Maxi is 6.6lbs so you could carry a 37lb child.

Depending on your child weigh you could start there and move to a trailer or trail a bike when you kid gets heavier. Tout Terrain makes a full suspension kids trailer which is pretty awesome!

https://tout-terrain.de/en/the-products/trailers/330/singletrailer#

Thanks Chris.

I have bought a Thule Chariot2 which I’ve been using on an old ebike with great success so far. It has suspension as well, and my kids seem very comfortable, even on uneven roads.

I am also planning on using my child seat (Thule Yepp), but only within the specs of the seat of course.

Cheers

 

[pedelecsva]

I would like to offer a point which is contrary to what the canon is here on cycling forums.

My approach is roughly this: not all laws are legitimate, and some laws, even though you're supposed to obey them are clearly illegitimate. When some unelected EU bureaucrats take ebike laws from Japan (where average rider weight and height of the rider is much less than that of Europeans) and just copy them over as a EU-wide directive without any public consultation, this law has zero legitimacy.

Furthermore, when arbitrary restrictions are made for no reason whatsoever (e.g., no throttle allowed) without any sensible reason given for doing so, again, this is a law that's not legitimate.

It gets even crazier. Did you know that children under 14 aren't allowed to ride on bikes in many countries. Yet many manufacturers make kids' ebikes, I got one, it's normal and children aren't getting into accidents because of these (at least not that I can see).

So, moral of the story is, you need to weigh your risks. Derestrictions are typically disabled using a button press so if anyone checks, you can just switch it back to pedelec mode and nobody can prove anything. I doubt that, in the case of an accident anyone is going to investigate the internals of your bike. Trust me, the people qualified to do that aren't found in many places, and thinking that insurance/police are even remotely aware of how ebikes even function is silly.

So, long story short, I would not worry about some potential consequences of getting in trouble because the bike is derestricted. What I would worry about is the objective safety of your child as you are going at 45kph. If you are happy with the rists, put on a child seat and let people assume you're on an ordinary pedelec.

I couldn’t agree more with your oppinion on the legitimacy of the different laws, but I’ve never been good at arguing with the ones enforcing it, so I am trying to break as few as possible, despite how stupid they may seem,

I might be overly cautious, but I’ve always been told horror stories about insurance companies trying to find every little loophole, which could void the insurance. If you get in an accident in my country, an official inspector will check out your vehicle, whether it might be a car, motorcycle, moped or bicycle. If it is modified beyond the intent of the manufacturer and the approved limits, it is illegal.

Anyway, I’ve placed an order on a delite rohloff gx hs. Should get it within the next 3 weeks, and I can’t wait.

 

[pedelecsva]

So far, I am not that impressed by R&M.

Ever since I placed my order, I’ve been told delivery in week 17.
Thursday in week 17 I am told week 18.
Thursday in week 18, I am told week 19 or 20.

So I am still waiting... sigh...

 

[Chris Nolte]

So far, I am not that impressed by R&M.

Ever since I placed my order, I’ve been told delivery in week 17.
Thursday in week 17 I am told week 18.
Thursday in week 18, I am told week 19 or 20.

So I am still waiting... sigh...

Do you have access to the online tracking? I know you’re not in the US, but I’m wondering if they use that system elsewhere

 

[pedelecsva]

Do you have access to the online tracking? I know you’re not in the US, but I’m wondering if they use that system elsewhere

Hi Chris.

I have ordered from a german store. They can only refer to the information they get from R&M. Unfortunately...

 

[pedelecsva]

Still nothing :-(

 

[Chris Nolte]

Week 20 is next week so maybe you will hear an update then. I was actually just at the new factory and they are working quickly to ramp up production so I’m sure it won’t be long.


Perhaps you can ask for the build code to track on their homepage. https://www.r-m.de/de/

 

[pedelecsva]

Thanks Chris, I was not aware of that option. My dealer supplied me with the code within minutes, and now I can hit refresh every 5 minutes myself

It is now expected delivered 21 But since I am going on a business trip for the next two weeks, this is less of a problem.

“All good things come to those who wait”

 

[pedelecsva]

Thanks Chris, I was not aware of that option. My dealer supplied me with the code within minutes, and now I can hit refresh every 5 minutes myself

It is now expected delivered 21 But since I am going on a business trip for the next two weeks, this is less of a problem.

“All good things come to those who wait”

And now it is week 23? I am not impressed.?

 

[Dmitri]

Okay, I should probably do a small (text) update on some additional changes to the bike. Here we go:

• Completely stopped using the Wipperman Connex 7E8 chains that I previously talked about. They are... not good. Fail rather quickly, and they also have an issue with their locking mechanism, specifically there's clearance between the locking pin chainlink and the actual lock link, so I found the lock itself and the closing chainlink would just dissappear off my chain. Not amused. I'm back to KMC X1 chains and that's where it will stay.
• Replaced the right dropout with one that supports a chain tensioner. Also required buying a Rohloff chain tensioner and a new chain. The reason why this modification had to happen is because the roller wheel supporting the chain is generally a bad idea — chain stretches and starts damaging the chainstay, and the wheel itself kind of wears out in time. R&M are aware of this and new bikes come with a tensioner. Oh well.
• Repositioned the Supernova light from the fork to the rear of my Intuvia bike computer. Required the purchase of a special mount specifically for this. Warning — this arrangement means that changes to inclintation of the bike computer display affect the inclination of the light. Of course their connection is not rigid (you can adjust), but accidentally nudging it can have the effect of pedestrians' eyes being burnt out.
• Stopped using Maxxis SS tires in favor of Rock Razor. Maxxis lied about their tire width, they are actually a bit more narrow than Schwalbe, and I'm also very happy I don't have to brandish the obnoxious yellow MAXXIS logos. Good riddance.

In addition to all of the above, I'm planning to replace my NC-17 Trekking handlebars with a knockoff Jones H-loop. The Jones is such an awesome handlebar! I have it on my fatbike, having the loop available for one of those little bags is nice. Paying $79 for it is a bit silly, but paying about $20 feels 'just right'.

And yeah, I'm still riding with a 3.8" wheel...

 

[lerxst]

Okay, I should probably do a small (text) update on some additional changes to the bike. Here we go:

• Completely stopped using the Wipperman Connex 7E8 chains that I previously talked about. They are... not good. Fail rather quickly, and they also have an issue with their locking mechanism, specifically there's clearance between the locking pin chainlink and the actual lock link, so I found the lock itself and the closing chainlink would just dissappear off my chain. Not amused. I'm back to KMC X1 chains and that's where it will stay.
• Replaced the right dropout with one that supports a chain tensioner. Also required buying a Rohloff chain tensioner and a new chain. The reason why this modification had to happen is because the roller wheel supporting the chain is generally a bad idea — chain stretches and starts damaging the chainstay, and the wheel itself kind of wears out in time. R&M are aware of this and new bikes come with a tensioner. Oh well.
• Repositioned the Supernova light from the fork to the rear of my Intuvia bike computer. Required the purchase of a special mount specifically for this. Warning — this arrangement means that changes to inclintation of the bike computer display affect the inclination of the light. Of course their connection is not rigid (you can adjust), but accidentally nudging it can have the effect of pedestrians' eyes being burnt out.
• Stopped using Maxxis SS tires in favor of Rock Razor. Maxxis lied about their tire width, they are actually a bit more narrow than Schwalbe, and I'm also very happy I don't have to brandish the obnoxious yellow MAXXIS logos. Good riddance.

In addition to all of the above, I'm planning to replace my NC-17 Trekking handlebars with a knockoff Jones H-loop. The Jones is such an awesome handlebar! I have it on my fatbike, having the loop available for one of those little bags is nice. Paying $79 for it is a bit silly, but paying about $20 feels 'just right'.

And yeah, I'm still riding with a 3.8" wheel...

Got some pics to share of the new handlebar installed?